LTS Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 Furthermore, on this great day that celebrates our freedom of choice and in so doing celebrates those who helped create this wonderful country... Why the hell are you all crapping on the bird that Benjamin Franklin wanted as the national bird? ?
Eleven Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, LTS said: Furthermore, on this great day that celebrates our freedom of choice and in so doing celebrates those who helped create this wonderful country... Why the hell are you all crapping on the bird that Benjamin Franklin wanted as the national bird? ? Only two of us are, and had Franklin been successful, we'd be eating ham or something else delicious on Thanksgiving. 2 minutes ago, SDS said: Not exactly the conversation I expected when I checked in… Who the f*ck do you think you are, wandering in here, the owner or something?
SwampD Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, Eleven said: Only two of us are, and had Franklin been successful, we'd be eating ham or something else delicious on Thanksgiving. Spiral hams suck.
LTS Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, Eleven said: I'm not sure I understand this. It's pretty late so maybe that's why? But I really don't get the question. Am I asking the turkey's name? Or stating how I'd like the turkey to be cooked? Or...? It's a metaphor. No, you have to get up, go to the store, wait in line to get a turkey. You can choose Turkey A or Turkey B. You don't like either of them. You'd be willing to accept Turkey C (Smoked Turkey) but that's not an option. You can ask them for it, but they won't give you one. Do you leave the house to go to the store just so you can ask for Turkey C?
JujuFish Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 I'd take turkey over steak, but I realize I'm weird. Or maybe I've just never had a good steak.
Eleven Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, SwampD said: Spiral hams suck. You're definitely doing it wrong. Also I said nothing about any spiral hams. Just now, JujuFish said: I'd take turkey over steak, but I realize I'm weird. Or maybe I've just never had a good steak. You need a good steak with some mushrooms, a potato, and green beans as sides. 1
Eleven Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 1. McMurray is down by fewer than 3000 with 99% reporting per CNN. 2. The Dems just took the NYS Senate. I don't like it when a single party controls the executive branch and both legislative houses, so I'm not happy. 3. I just realized I have court in less than nine hours. Where the hell did the time go? Goodnight all. Edited November 7, 2018 by Eleven
SwampD Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, Eleven said: 1. McMurray is down less than 3000 with 99% reporting per CNN. 2. The Dems just took the NYS Senate. I don't like it when a single party controls the executive branch and both legislative houses, so I'm not happy. 3. I just realized I have court in less than nine hours. Where the hell did the time go? Goodnight all. Ham eater. If you ate turkey, you'd be asleep by now. 1
JujuFish Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Eleven said: You're definitely doing it wrong. Also I said nothing about any spiral hams. You need a good steak with some mushrooms, a potato, and green beans as sides. If I'm ever in Buffalo again, I'll eat whatever steak you recommend. If I like it, I pay. If I don't, you do. I'll be completely honest in my evaluation (I recognize that my statement is effectively coming from a random internet stranger).
SDS Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 Collins declared winner. Solid work WNY. ?
Weave Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 6 hours ago, SDS said: Collins declared winner. Solid work WNY. ? McMurray has requested a recount, but yeah, in all liklihood an indicted man is going to represent NY 27. I expected this, but I don’t understand it. 1
LTS Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Weave said: McMurray has requested a recount, but yeah, in all liklihood an indicted man is going to represent NY 27. I expected this, but I don’t understand it. People consistently find a way to disappoint me. The only thing I understand about this happening is that it is clear that as a whole our population is losing its moral compass. I want to make a bit more of a statement on not voting yesterday. I have the RIGHT to vote. I have the RIGHT to speak freely. I have the RIGHT to own a gun. I also have the RIGHT to NOT do those things if I feel they are not beneficial. Having the RIGHT to vote is a critically important RIGHT to have. It's despicable that ANY citizen was never allowed to vote in the past. I accept that those who fought for those RIGHTS are incredibly important pieces of American history. However, when you are chided and goaded to vote it begins to move us away from the RIGHT to vote and more toward a REQUIREMENT to vote. We are a society founded on freedom and that freedom means it is important for us to have rights, but also to have the right to not act as well. There's a difference between someone who doesn't vote because they don't care and someone who doesn't vote because they don't support any candidate for the positions listed. As an independent voter I do not get to choose which candidate the Republican and Democrats put on the ballot. Frequently I am unimpressed with those candidates. Yes, there was a 3rd party candidate on the ballot, but I also did not like that 3rd party candidate either. Imagine for a moment that I went out and voted for the 3rd party candidate just to demonstrate that 3rd parties are important. Imagine if the guy won. I would have to live with knowing that I helped elect someone who I don't support. By NOT voting for what I feel are unqualified candidates I am actively engaged in the political process. The problem is that people don't see that differently than people who are just too lazy to vote or do not care. I encouraged all to vote who had a candidate (or policy) that's on the ballot that they want to support. I made no statements yesterday about my not voting (on here, on FB, on twitter, etc.) until after the polls had closed pretty much everywhere. I am thankful that it's mostly over. It seems that in some areas of the country there were some significant events. I am always curious what comes of it.
josie Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 It is a right to vote. And yes, you don't have to, and rarely rarely if ever will there be someone you actually like on the ballot (vote in the small stuff and that might happen more often). But for some demographics it makes a much bigger difference. The biggest argument I've seen by those begging everyone to vote is that it's not necessarily about you. It's about voting to protect those who are at risk if you don't, if you're so inclined. Yeah, I don't particularly love anyone I voted for yesterday, but I'd rather vote the way I did than not vote and see more gerrymandering/negative outcomes that will affect more at-risk communities. On the flip- this is an interesting take I saw: "If you have been vote shaming your ass off especially you white libs please ask yourselves: what other material or direct action have you taken to service underprivileged communities most at risk under this administration besides filling out a ballot and taking a sticker selfie?" -@SorryMomDotGov A lot of people get the warm fuzzies by screaming and hollering Nov. 6th, but don't actually do anything beyond that- a slightly more effective form of armchair advocacy. It's better than nothing, sure, but... put your money where your mouth is. IF of course, that's on the list of things you're voting for/talk about. Everyone votes differently, and I realize many people aren't going to see this the same way I do.
LTS Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, josie said: It is a right to vote. And yes, you don't have to, and rarely rarely if ever will there be someone you actually like on the ballot (vote in the small stuff and that might happen more often). But for some demographics it makes a much bigger difference. The biggest argument I've seen by those begging everyone to vote is that it's not necessarily about you. It's about voting to protect those who are at risk if you don't, if you're so inclined. Yeah, I don't particularly love anyone I voted for yesterday, but I'd rather vote the way I did than not vote and see more gerrymandering/negative outcomes that will affect more at-risk communities. On the flip- this is an interesting take I saw: "If you have been vote shaming your ass off especially you white libs please ask yourselves: what other material or direct action have you taken to service underprivileged communities most at risk under this administration besides filling out a ballot and taking a sticker selfie?" -@SorryMomDotGov A lot of people get the warm fuzzies by screaming and hollering Nov. 6th, but don't actually do anything beyond that- a slightly more effective form of armchair advocacy. It's better than nothing, sure, but... put your money where your mouth is. IF of course, that's on the list of things you're voting for/talk about. Everyone votes differently, and I realize many people aren't going to see this the same way I do. Who am I protecting when I vote? Who is at risk? You talk about voting and not see more gerrymandering/negative outcomes that affect more at-risk communities. There are certain presumptions buried within those statements. The presumptions lean heavily towards voters that would vote Democrat. What if I would be more likely to vote Republican if I were "forced" to vote? That would work in the exact opposite of what was intended by those statements wouldn't it? Gerrymandering is a practice that has been employed by both sides of the aisle. Negative outcomes are in the eye of the beholder. What you consider negative may not be considered negative by someone else. The entire system of how districts are drawn and how representation is determined is horribly broken. If one looks at the options and believes they all lead to negative outcomes wouldn't it make more sense to NOT participate in making that happen?
josie Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, LTS said: Who am I protecting when I vote? Who is at risk? You talk about voting and not see more gerrymandering/negative outcomes that affect more at-risk communities. There are certain presumptions buried within those statements. The presumptions lean heavily towards voters that would vote Democrat. What if I would be more likely to vote Republican if I were "forced" to vote? That would work in the exact opposite of what was intended by those statements wouldn't it? Gerrymandering is a practice that has been employed by both sides of the aisle. Negative outcomes are in the eye of the beholder. What you consider negative may not be considered negative by someone else. The entire system of how districts are drawn and how representation is determined is horribly broken. If one looks at the options and believes they all lead to negative outcomes wouldn't it make more sense to NOT participate in making that happen? Too busy to respond in depth (ie research, articles, etc, as I would). Protect minorities. Protect those at risk under the current administration's general stripping of rights. Protect social liberties. I put the cauveat on there that "of course not everyone votes that way" because obviously they don't, and clearly it's not in your primary interests either. But I don't see voting as about me, or the individual. I see it as about the greater good, what would be best in the future for all. My personal values do lie in all those bleeding heart leftist moors. For me personally, (other than being a woman and my beliefs on my reproductive rights), it really doesn't matter all that much how I vote, I'm mostly protected. But for my LGBT friends, my minority friends, etc., my vote can count to protect their rights. Of course it's sticky- there is no blanket perfect candidate for one ideology. Presume away. Call me a dumb, naive, too-young-to-get-it socialist minded bleeding heart hippy freak, but regardless of how one votes, I encourage people to think beyond themselves or even the present time. Hold your nose and vote has always been a necessity, and I had way too many convos with Bernie bros a couple years ago who lived on this happy little idealistic cloud that they can have the perfect candidate and everything's sunshine rainbows and promises and they decided it was better to not vote or throw the baby out with the bathwater than vote for someone they didn't like over someone they hated. It isn't, it never has been, it never will be unless- vote local, get involved in candidates/organizations you believe in, and maybe a third party can break through and actually make a difference over the big reds and blues. But being upset about elections not being tailored to the individual and then doing nothing about it isn't helping anyone. It's a purgatory and it's frustrating, yes, so do something about it. Run yourself. Grassroots orgs are having quite the moment. Do something. I guess I just think it's selfish to complain and do nothing if you don't see past your own front door. Edited November 7, 2018 by josie 2
Hank Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, josie said: Too busy to respond in depth. Protect minorities. Protect those at risk under the current administration's general stripping of rights. Protect social liberties. I put the cauveat on there that "of course not everyone votes that way" because obviously they don't, and clearly it's not in your primary interests either. But I don't see voting as about me, or the individual. I see it as about the greater good, what would be best in the future for all. My personal values do lie in all those bleeding heart leftist moors. For me personally, (other than being a woman and my beliefs on my reproductive rights), it really doesn't matter all that much how I vote, I'm mostly protected. But for my LGBT friends, my minority friends, etc., my vote can count to protect their rights. Of course it's sticky- there is no blanket perfect candidate for one ideology. Presume away. Call me a dumb, naive, too-young-to-get-it socialist minded bleeding heart hippy freak, but regardless of how one votes, I encourage people to think beyond themselves or even the present time. Hold your nose and vote has always been a necessity, and I had way too many convos with Bernie bros a couple years ago who lived on this happy little idealistic cloud that they can have the perfect candidate and everything's sunshine rainbows and promises and they decided it was better to not vote or throw the baby out with the bathwater than vote for someone they didn't like over someone they hated. It isn't, it never has been, it never will be unless- vote local, get involved in candidates/organizations you believe in, and maybe a third party can break through and actually make a difference over the big reds and blues. But being upset about elections not being tailored to the individual and then doing nothing about it isn't helping anyone. It's a purgatory and it's frustrating, yes, so do something about it. Run yourself. Grassroots orgs are having quite the moment. Do something. I guess I just think it's selfish to complain and do nothing if you don't see past your own front door. That was...... powerfull? I may not agree with some of it, but well said. Kudos. Edited November 7, 2018 by Hank
TrueBlueGED Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 16 hours ago, LTS said: Fine, I can find a different word. My point is the act of governing the country is incredibly important. The political process by which the United States has devolved into doing so is incredibly less so. It's basically a pile of shite. No need to get salty. Curious @Eleven - if you had to go somewhere and choose your turkey but smoked wasn't an option and if you asked for it by name they wouldn't give it to you, would you still show up to get a turkey? Maybe we're talking past each other? You can hate how we elect our representatives, the two party system, the whole nine yards. But the results are hardly unimportant. Who wins significantly alters the governance even if you think it all sucks.
LTS Posted November 7, 2018 Report Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, josie said: Too busy to respond in depth (ie research, articles, etc, as I would). Protect minorities. Protect those at risk under the current administration's general stripping of rights. Protect social liberties. I put the cauveat on there that "of course not everyone votes that way" because obviously they don't, and clearly it's not in your primary interests either. But I don't see voting as about me, or the individual. I see it as about the greater good, what would be best in the future for all. My personal values do lie in all those bleeding heart leftist moors. For me personally, (other than being a woman and my beliefs on my reproductive rights), it really doesn't matter all that much how I vote, I'm mostly protected. But for my LGBT friends, my minority friends, etc., my vote can count to protect their rights. Of course it's sticky- there is no blanket perfect candidate for one ideology. Presume away. Call me a dumb, naive, too-young-to-get-it socialist minded bleeding heart hippy freak, but regardless of how one votes, I encourage people to think beyond themselves or even the present time. Hold your nose and vote has always been a necessity, and I had way too many convos with Bernie bros a couple years ago who lived on this happy little idealistic cloud that they can have the perfect candidate and everything's sunshine rainbows and promises and they decided it was better to not vote or throw the baby out with the bathwater than vote for someone they didn't like over someone they hated. It isn't, it never has been, it never will be unless- vote local, get involved in candidates/organizations you believe in, and maybe a third party can break through and actually make a difference over the big reds and blues. But being upset about elections not being tailored to the individual and then doing nothing about it isn't helping anyone. It's a purgatory and it's frustrating, yes, so do something about it. Run yourself. Grassroots orgs are having quite the moment. Do something. I guess I just think it's selfish to complain and do nothing if you don't see past your own front door. Let me start with I appreciate the level of information and the thoughts you have put here. I want to also state it (if I did not before) that I do vote, have voted, and will vote in the future as it suits my beliefs. I realize that no candidate is suited for the way I think. In fact, the only one that would be, would be me. I understand, in exceptional depth, the political process. It's probably also important to dispel a perception that I am not involved. Your comment "Do something." is off base if it is applied to me. So, if you've perceived me as detached from the process it's misplaced. I don't like our current political process as it relates to campaigns and electoral processes. Our government is broken. I am involved, but it's not necessarily in furthering the machine that exists. Voting for the "best of the worst" is not something I subscribe to unless the "worst of the worst" is so bad that I really need to lend my support to that "best of the worst". Voting for candidates that I believe in as being a "not bad" choice is something I will willingly do. Voting for the greater good is a subjective concept. I understand your ties and how that influences your voting. What people consider as the greater good is quite subjective and even more so are their relative values placed on one issue versus another to define what is really most important or weighs out as the best of the options. I am being careful in how I phrase these things because it should not be perceived that I am trying to argue against what you've stated as values that are important to you. It's not my intention to project that I am in opposition of those things. I made the comment about "What if I were inclined to vote Republican?" know that in general it would stand in opposition to the things that you were getting at. I don't have a love of Republicans, by any stretch. It's quite possible I would vote Democrat, but again, it depends on the Democrat. There are candidates that I had hoped would make the ballot from either Republican or Democratic aspects but never did. I am a registered independent so I don't get to influence who gets put on those ballots (with regards to the Republican and Democratic ballots). I do speak, at length, with my Republican and Democrat friends about the prospective candidates and hope their party will put forth a candidate I can support, it just so happened that it did NOT happen this time. I'm not all that interested in breaking down my personal political viewpoints. More or less I get tired of hearing that you need to vote because you can. I understand why people say it. It just resonates poorly with me. Most people are not involved enough with how our country is run and for them to be voting is disturbing to me. They don't bother to understand who they are voting for, they just vote to say they did it. I do think that over the past couple of years people have found a reason to become more informed with their government. I hope that we begin to see genuine change in how our government works, especially as some of the old curmudgeons leave and the world continues to change. I think there is evidence that in some parts of the country a very different face was elected. I hope they are good at enacting change as well. Edited November 7, 2018 by LTS
Sabel79 Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Posted November 8, 2018 On 11/6/2018 at 11:39 PM, Sabel79 said: This is rather reminiscent of the “butterfly ballots” that caused all the olds in FL to vote for Buchanan in 2000, thus putting you-know-who in the White House. All sorts of f***ery required to keep them in business, been going on for years. Oh FFS Florida. Time to send Bugs Bunny down there with a handsaw...
Samson's Flow Posted November 8, 2018 Report Posted November 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, Sabel79 said: Oh FFS Florida. Time to send Bugs Bunny down there with a handsaw... Did you see the picture of the sample ballot? No wonder people missed the Senate vote it was under the instructions section at the very bottom left of the ballot. 24,000 people when the next highest county's differential was ~1,500 votes. That's dumb.
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