LGR4GM Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: The immediate problem is to get the shooter to stop. This requires lethal force. If you have a solution to hatred, I'm all ears. Start a thread. You're right, let's just arm everyone. I should carry a gun because I work in education. You should carry a gun at church. The more the guns the better. That's the solution. Arm everyone and that will stop hatred. Never mind that 3 armed police officers were shot in this last confrontation. A solution for hatred is a strawman argument to the extreme. Someone mentioned education and opportunity upthread and that's a good start.
5th line wingnutt Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: You're right, let's just arm everyone. I should carry a gun because I work in education. You should carry a gun at church. The more the guns the better. That's the solution. Arm everyone and that will stop hatred. Never mind that 3 armed police officers were shot in this last confrontation. A solution for hatred is a strawman argument to the extreme. Someone mentioned education and opportunity upthread and that's a good start. What do you think motivates these attacks? What is your solution?
LGR4GM Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: What do you think motivates these attacks? What is your solution? Hatred and ignorance do. You can't find a solution for hatred that is a strawman. You can find a solution to other things and keep those hate feeling individuals to the fringes and not emboldened though.
5th line wingnutt Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: You can find a solution to other things and keep those hate feeling individuals to the fringes and not emboldened though. What other things? How? 1
LGR4GM Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: What other things? How? I will respond with this, why do those people develop or feel that hatred? What are the contributing factors? You don't wake up ready to kill people so what preceded it? How was the personal marginalized? What indoctrinated them? How can you educate people against that indoctrination? Like I said, a more complex issue which is why it won't be tackled in that way. 1
5th line wingnutt Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I will respond with this, why do those people develop or feel that hatred? What are the contributing factors? You don't wake up ready to kill people so what preceded it? How was the personal marginalized? What indoctrinated them? How can you educate people against that indoctrination? Like I said, a more complex issue which is why it won't be tackled in that way. Word salad, no substance.
LTS Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Word salad, no substance. It had more substance than your response does. The questions being raised are precisely the factors that need to be addressed. There's no magic wand to wave to solve the problem. Look at the history of a person and see how they learned to hate because hate is not a genetic trait. A few weeks ago I came across a statement that made me think. We're always hearing about the golden rule. But the truth is, the golden rule is massively flawed. It only works if everyone is the same as me which of course they are not. It's more valid to treat others the way they want to be treated. Perhaps it starts there. 1
5th line wingnutt Posted October 30, 2018 Report Posted October 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, LTS said: It had more substance than your response does. The questions being raised are precisely the factors that need to be addressed. There's no magic wand to wave to solve the problem. Look at the history of a person and see how they learned to hate because hate is not a genetic trait. A few weeks ago I came across a statement that made me think. We're always hearing about the golden rule. But the truth is, the golden rule is massively flawed. It only works if everyone is the same as me which of course they are not. It's more valid to treat others the way they want to be treated. Perhaps it starts there. I asked questions. I did not want, or expect, a magic wand. I wanted an overview of his approach. I got bunch of glittering generalties in the form of questions. How do you know hatred is not genetic? 1
LTS Posted October 31, 2018 Report Posted October 31, 2018 8 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said: I asked questions. I did not want, or expect, a magic wand. I wanted an overview of his approach. I got bunch of glittering generalties in the form of questions. How do you know hatred is not genetic? If you didn't understand the response perhaps it would be better to try and ask questions rather than summarily dismiss it with a flippant response of your own.. The initial questions raised are the key to understanding why a person becomes this way. As for a discussion on a genetic disposition of hatred: We are born ignorant of many things. We don't know what to do with them until we are taught. There may be a genetic tendency toward rage and many other factors but hatred is a purely learned trait. One does not see someone of a different ethnic background and hate them because of it. For that matter, until you knew what a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim were they were meaningless words. If you had never been taught what they were I could line 3 people up and you'd not feel hatred towards them for practicing any of those faiths. If you want to continue down this path you should bring some level of research supporting the theory of hatred being linked to genetics. Hatred of the kind that causes people to want to destroy others because of their religion or ethnicity. Not hatred of coriander which really isn't hatred but a dislike as a defense mechanism. I've never seen any although there are some theories but most of them just don't stand up to examination.
5th line wingnutt Posted October 31, 2018 Report Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, LTS said: If you didn't understand the response perhaps it would be better to try and ask questions rather than summarily dismiss it with a flippant response of your own.. The initial questions raised are the key to understanding why a person becomes this way. As for a discussion on a genetic disposition of hatred: We are born ignorant of many things. We don't know what to do with them until we are taught. There may be a genetic tendency toward rage and many other factors but hatred is a purely learned trait. One does not see someone of a different ethnic background and hate them because of it. For that matter, until you knew what a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim were they were meaningless words. If you had never been taught what they were I could line 3 people up and you'd not feel hatred towards them for practicing any of those faiths. If you want to continue down this path you should bring some level of research supporting the theory of hatred being linked to genetics. Hatred of the kind that causes people to want to destroy others because of their religion or ethnicity. Not hatred of coriander which really isn't hatred but a dislike as a defense mechanism. I've never seen any although there are some theories but most of them just don't stand up to examination. I had been trying get Lgr to explain his position. I thought he was being evasive. The first bolded was me giving up. As to the second bolded...I did not claim that hate is genetic. You said hate is learned. I merely asked how you knew it was not genetic. FWIW I think all human characteristics are partly genetic and partly learned, and that there is a very complex relationship between genetics and environment. Read The Nurture Assumption or Nature via Nurture or The Blank Slate. Edited October 31, 2018 by 5th line wingnutt
LGR4GM Posted October 31, 2018 Report Posted October 31, 2018 16 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said: I asked questions. I did not want, or expect, a magic wand. I wanted an overview of his approach. I got bunch of glittering generalties in the form of questions. How do you know hatred is not genetic? Science. 17 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Word salad, no substance. You want me to tell you how to stop people feeling hatred. It is a ridiculous starting point.
LGR4GM Posted October 31, 2018 Report Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, 5th line wingnutt said: I had been trying get Lgr to explain his position. I thought he was being evasive. The first bolded was me giving up. Armed gunman would not stop these things. There are lots of places with armed gunman that get attacked. It is just another level of escalation. We need to be a better educated society about people who are different than us for starters. We need to focus on helping those people who feel they are on the edges of society and most importantly we need to stop glorifying some mythical past where all white Christians were the be all end of all of America. "Well it was better before the Jews and the colored people got here, if only they weren't here" is how you start down this road. Intolerance has to become intolerable. You'll never fully eliminate hate, but you sure as hell don't have to make it the starting point of your politics.
LGR4GM Posted October 31, 2018 Report Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) I do want to add that I am glad their are differing viewpoints in this club. I think it helps. Edited October 31, 2018 by LGR4GM
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