Suspicious Packages Shipped To Clintons, Obamas, and Time Warner

[SwampD]

15 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said:

The point is...  It is not like the government is making widgets and selling them to voluntary buyers.  The government makes programs and makes you buy them whether you want them or not.  I never wanted social security or medicare but I was forced into both.

The government also heavily regulates some industries, like health care insurance.  They mandate what coverages are included, and if you want insurance you have to pay for stuff you do not want and do not need.  I wanted a policy where I would pay for routine stuff out of pocket, and be covered for the big expensive stuff.  Claims are expensive to generate, process and pay, and right now almost every visit to a provider generates one or more claims.

It is insane.

I don't doubt it. If it makes you feel any better, I've had private insurance through my company for 25 years and my premiums have gone up every year with less and less coverage and higher copays every year. And my wife's full time job has been navigating their phone trees and websites. 

Like I said before, stuff costs what it costs, and have better things to do than to gripe about whether it is going to gov't waste or to some corporate DB's third vacation house.

 

I just realized this was the bombing thread. lol

[Scottysabres]

Yes, cut military expenditures, specifically close all global military installations outside of US territories and the homeland. Bring those personnel home, where local economies can benefit from them. Also, reduce personnel, ships and logistics for such. It's a proven strategic success that when you control the skies, you control the battlefield, emphasize air power dominates with defensive strength.

There is no reason to be the worlds policemen, let independent nations solve their own issues, we can take care of ourselves.

Go to a single payer health care system. The goal of apportioned taxes went out the window generations ago, cap the tax rate at the Federal and state levels and pass balanced budget amendments. Free market principles love nothing better than stability, and this would bring a great deal to that.

Lower the retirement age to 57 (voluntary work beyond that age with no penalties) and incentivize 401k type plans that allow for freedom of investment for employees who wish it. Socail Security collection to commence at retirement (57).

There is many programs that could be ended to compensate the expenditure increases. Give control of the entire Eisenhower thruway system to the Federal government for example, relieving states of the burden lay a grid across the nation, and set a standard 1 dollar toll per grid area and an additional dollar for each grid district you cross in travel. While this appears heavy handed and burdensome, it actually streamlines federal highway transportation, more than addresses maintainence, and helps to suppress emissions while bolstering local and regional trade and employment as local resources are encouraged economically to be used.

These are just a few ideas I've been thinking on. Yes, none are perfect, no actually, I'm not a progressive, I actually lean more conservative but I consider myself a middle ground kind of citizen. We need to encourage and reinforce small business while not over burdening them but at the same time we should be cognitive of the cumberness in trying to maintain lifestyle stability nationally.

I believe in the rights of the individual, but we should be promoting and supporting an environment where it increases choices, thereby offering more avenues of success. But I also believe when you take away from those successful heavily, it acts as a discouragement when others see that happening. A middle ground of paying more as your wealth grows is fair, but we shouldn't over reach to, as I said discourage success.

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Scottysabres

[LTS]

6 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Yes, cut military expenditures, [...... lots of good conversation points omitted..... ] as I said discourage success.

 

We've definitely wandered off into another topic zone... I figured I would ask.  Discuss it here or throw it into a new thread?

I think @Scottysabres has a lot of things in the post that will drive a lot of commentary.  If we want this thread to remain relegated to the bomb discussion and subsequent news regarding the bomber I would say we move this to its own topic...

Thoughts?

[5th line wingnutt]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

We've definitely wandered off into another topic zone... I figured I would ask.  Discuss it here or throw it into a new thread?

I think @Scottysabres has a lot of things in the post that will drive a lot of commentary.  If we want this thread to remain relegated to the bomb discussion and subsequent news regarding the bomber I would say we move this to its own topic...

Thoughts?

That was my thought as well.

[LGR4GM]

16 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said:

The point is...  It is not like the government is making widgets and selling them to voluntary buyers.  The government makes programs and makes you buy them whether you want them or not.  I never wanted social security or medicare but I was forced into both.

The government also heavily regulates some industries, like health care insurance.  They mandate what coverages are included, and if you want insurance you have to pay for stuff you do not want and do not need.  I wanted a policy where I would pay for routine stuff out of pocket, and be covered for the big expensive stuff.  Claims are expensive to generate, process and pay, and right now almost every visit to a provider generates one or more claims.

It is insane.

That's literally not how insurance works. Especially health insurance. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by LGR4GM

[Eleven]

16 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said:

I wanted a policy where I would pay for routine stuff out of pocket, and be covered for the big expensive stuff. 

Just in case you're still looking for insurance options:  there are plenty of these types of plans available.  They are called "high deductible plans."  Essentially, they are hospitalization plans and not health care plans.

[Scottysabres]

13 hours ago, LTS said:

We've definitely wandered off into another topic zone... I figured I would ask.  Discuss it here or throw it into a new thread?

I think @Scottysabres has a lot of things in the post that will drive a lot of commentary.  If we want this thread to remain relegated to the bomb discussion and subsequent news regarding the bomber I would say we move this to its own topic...

Thoughts?

 

7 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said:

That was my thought as well.

Sorry about that.

As for the bomb mailing suspect, we are each responsible and accountable for our own actions. No one should be pointing fingers at anyone other than the individual who made a choice in their life to undertake an action.

If that were the case, every German citizen, Nazi affiliated and others who in any way contributed to 65+ million deaths across 13 years would have been put to death. They weren't.

And there in lay a larger problem in modern society imo. We've learned to use the blame game crutches as excuses for individual actions and decisions. This is unacceptable. Human history is littered with such events.

Societal norms start with accountability, as Judge Heywood stated to Judge Yani: "You conspired to the events the moment you convicted an innocent person, knowing they did not commit the crime".

How easy we forget history's lessons, conveniently, when it suits an individuals or groups agenda. Right is right, wrong is wrong.

[LTS]

20 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

 

Sorry about that.

As for the bomb mailing suspect, we are each responsible and accountable for our own actions. No one should be pointing fingers at anyone other than the individual who made a choice in their life to undertake an action.

If that were the case, every German citizen, Nazi affiliated and others who in any way contributed to 65+ million deaths across 13 years would have been put to death. They weren't.

And there in lay a larger problem in modern society imo. We've learned to use the blame game crutches as excuses for individual actions and decisions. This is unacceptable. Human history is littered with such events.

Societal norms start with accountability, as Judge Heywood stated to Judge Yani: "You conspired to the events the moment you convicted an innocent person, knowing they did not commit the crime".

How easy we forget history's lessons, conveniently, when it suits an individuals or groups agenda. Right is right, wrong is wrong.

I agree that people are responsible for their own actions. However, it is a bit shortsighted to say that those who sow the seeds within others are also not guilty of attempting to subvert society and encourage the kind of behavior that results.

I guess the simple way to put it is that I blame the person who pulls the trigger just as much as I blame the person who is whispering shoot, shoot, shoot into the shooter's ear.

[Scottysabres]

31 minutes ago, LTS said:

I agree that people are responsible for their own actions. However, it is a bit shortsighted to say that those who sow the seeds within others are also not guilty of attempting to subvert society and encourage the kind of behavior that results.

I guess the simple way to put it is that I blame the person who pulls the trigger just as much as I blame the person who is whispering shoot, shoot, shoot into the shooter's ear.

There is truth in this, the principal of criminal law in every civilized nation has this in common: any person who sways another to commit the crime, any person who furnishes the weapon, any person who is an accessory to the crime, is guilty.

But in the end in this case, I heard no one telling this individual to murder based on opposing political views.

There is no doubt the political rhetoric is heated. But is it really rhetoric? Or is 5here something much larger in play here? I submit there is. A political party in power (both Democrat and Republican, however much broader and, in my humble assessment, a much greater threat to the Constitution itself is the Democrat abuses) used multiple government agencies as actual weapons against citizens, then, when unseated from power, are attempting to overthrow a duly elected administration by any means necessary.

Is anyone actually surprised at the predictable responses. And brace yourselves, because it is only going to get worse. We are on the cusp of something much larger than the 60's unrest in my opinion. None of this bodes well for the nation, we are fractured and will most likely remain so for the foreseeable future.

 

[Sabel79]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

I agree that people are responsible for their own actions. However, it is a bit shortsighted to say that those who sow the seeds within others are also not guilty of attempting to subvert society and encourage the kind of behavior that results.

I guess the simple way to put it is that I blame the person who pulls the trigger just as much as I blame the person who is whispering shoot, shoot, shoot into the shooter's ear.

Remember kids, Charles Manson never actually killed anybody...

[SwampD]

17 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

There is truth in this, the principal of criminal law in every civilized nation has this in common: any person who sways another to commit the crime, any person who furnishes the weapon, any person who is an accessory to the crime, is guilty.

But in the end in this case, I heard no one telling this individual to murder based on opposing political views.

There is no doubt the political rhetoric is heated. But is it really rhetoric? Or is 5here something much larger in play here? I submit there is. A political party in power (both Democrat and Republican, however much broader and, in my humble assessment, a much greater threat to the Constitution itself is the Democrat abuses) used multiple government agencies as actual weapons against citizens, then, when unseated from power, are attempting to overthrow a duly elected administration by any means necessary.

Is anyone actually surprised at the predictable responses. And brace yourselves, because it is only going to get worse. We are on the cusp of something much larger than the 60's unrest in my opinion. None of this bodes well for the nation, we are fractured and will most likely remain so for the foreseeable future.

 

Wuh?

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

Wuh?

IRS, FBI, DOJ, EPA and DHS were all used as weapons against American Citizens due to political affiliation. Its actually well documented.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

IRS, FBI, DOJ, EPA and DHS were all used as weapons against American Citizens due to political affiliation. Its actually well documented.

Happened under Bush, as well. Is happening now, too. I guess it's which citizens they go after that you have a problem with.

[Scottysabres]

Just now, SwampD said:

Happened under Bush, as well. Is happening now, too. I guess it's which citizens they go after that you have a problem with.

I believe I've stated both parties, and in a previous post directly stated Bush as guilty.

It most certainly was much broader in scope under Obama, yet no less significant under Bush.

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Wuh?

I would have highlighted the "when unseated from power, are attempting to overthrow a duly elected administration by any means necessary" part. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by LGR4GM

[Scottysabres]

16 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

Remember kids, Charles Manson never actually killed anybody...

He both furnished the weapons and swayed others to the crime via direct statements.

Color me pink and call me Barney but something tells me Trump hadn't met this bombing suspect and convinced him to specifically send bombs in the mail. And while i think Trump is a simpleton on a personal level, I can find no evidence he is actively promoting murder.

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I would have highlighted the "when unseated from power, are attempting to overthrow a duly elected administration by any means necessary" part. 

So, you deny that is actively happening?

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

He both furnished the weapons and swayed others to the crime via direct statements.

Color me pink and call me Barney but something tells me Trump hadn't met this bombing suspect and convinced him to specifically send bombs in the mail. And while i think Trump is a simpleton on a personal level, I can find no evidence he is actively promoting murder.

So, you deny that is actively happening?

I still see Impeach Obama stickers.

[Scottysabres]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I still see Impeach Obama stickers.

Not on my vehicle. I voted for him in 08, wrote in Ron Paul in 12, and 16.

I voted twice for Clinton, once fore Gore and did not vote in 04.

I felt the same way about what happened to Clinton as I do about what's happening to Trump, railroaded. I could never understand how a blow-job got so out of hand (no pun intended). So to imply I lean to one parties side is more than a bit presumptuous in my humble opinion.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Scottysabres

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

He both furnished the weapons and swayed others to the crime via direct statements.

Color me pink and call me Barney but something tells me Trump hadn't met this bombing suspect and convinced him to specifically send bombs in the mail. And while i think Trump is a simpleton on a personal level, I can find no evidence he is actively promoting murder.

So, you deny that is actively happening?

You clarify what you mean and I will answer. 

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Not on my vehicle. I voted for him in 08, wrote in Ron Paul in 12, and 16.

I voted twice for Clinton, once fore Gore and did not vote in 04.

I felt the same way about what happened to Clinton as I do about what's happening to Trump, railroaded. I could never understand how a ***** got so out of hand (no pun intended). So to imply I lean to one parties side is more than a bit presumptuous in my humble opinion.

My point is that the politics taking place have always taken place and always will take place. That's the game and everyone involved knows that going in. So, with all things being equal, it's the policies that matter to me. I find the policies and the incendiary rhetoric of this president and his party to be way more harmful to our country and Constitution (see: Fake first amendment.)

[That Aud Smell]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:37 PM, Scottysabres said:

Yes, cut military expenditures, specifically close all global military installations outside of US territories and the homeland. Bring those personnel home, where local economies can benefit from them. Also, reduce personnel, ships and logistics for such. It's a proven strategic success that when you control the skies, you control the battlefield, emphasize air power dominates with defensive strength.

There is no reason to be the worlds policemen, let independent nations solve their own issues, we can take care of ourselves.

In my heart and soul, I want this to be true.

But America is the world's most powerful empire. It is in decline, no doubt. But it is still the top dog. There are innumerable aspects of our economy, society, culture, and way of life that depend on the world order being a particular way or ways. There are therefore many, many logical and justifiable reasons for the United States to police most of the world.

[Scottysabres]

5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

In my heart and soul, I want this to be true.

But America is the world's most powerful empire. It is in decline, no doubt. But it is still the top dog. There are innumerable aspects of our economy, society, culture, and way of life that depend on the world order being a particular way or ways. There are therefore many, many logical and justifiable reasons for the United States to police most of the world.

We depend on it because why? We didn't used to, and we not only survived, but thrived. It can be that way again, if we choose it to be.

There are, I concur, reasonable situations where we may have to step in. But that threshold had better be dam high. Not just some call from the world for our hard earned treasure, our blood, our children to go and take care of a situation not remotely related to us and serves no interests.

Use of WMD's are one where we should respond. Only, that should be globally shared and the punishment for its inhumane use should be immediate termination of parties responsible.

We can do that with air power.

[SwampD]

12 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

We depend on it because why? We didn't used to, and we not only survived, but thrived. It can be that way again, if we choose it to be.

There are, I concur, reasonable situations where we may have to step in. But that threshold had better be dam high. Not just some call from the world for our hard earned treasure, our blood, our children to go and take care of a situation not remotely related to us and serves no interests.

Use of WMD's are one where we should respond. Only, that should be globally shared and the punishment for its inhumane use should be immediate termination of parties responsible. 

We can do that with air power.

So, where are those planes taking off from?

I have no problem being the "world's police." We benefit the most from it.

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

So, where are those planes taking off from?

I have no problem being the "world's police." We benefit the most from it.

Absolutely.

[Scottysabres]

4 hours ago, SwampD said:

My point is that the politics taking place have always taken place and always will take place. That's the game and everyone involved knows that going in. So, with all things being equal, it's the policies that matter to me. I find the policies and the incendiary rhetoric of this president and his party to be way more harmful to our country and Constitution (see: Fake first amendment.)

I, personally find Trumps actual policies refreshingly pro American Citizen. Two 5humbs up for 80% of his policies.

Where I take issue is healthcare (the biggest one) and his roll back of a few of the EPA clean water and air regulations. By no means should that indicate I am anti-business or fossil fuels however.

I believe the single payer system, rated in accordance to income AND usage (for example, family as opposed to single with no children) would help to stabilize the system. More importantly, the most important natural asset America has is its citizens, the people. We PM our machinery to prevent catastrophic failure, we should be doing the same with healthcare imho.

Does that mean a single payer tax? Yes, yes it does, but there can be no denying the benefits of such a system. I didn't dislike the Affordable Care Act because it took money. I disliked it because 9t was a rush job, half-assed lie to my face straight out scheme by one political party because they feared the next election cycle. That sucked, and quite honestly, I don't expect better from our elected representatives, I demand better.

As for the EPA, yes, rolling back a majority of the regulations wasn't a bad thing, but the emphasis on air and water is non-nogetiable to me. We must, and can do better, so it's not so much what he has repealed in as much as what he is not attempting to accomplish.