Has Jack found 1 of his long term solutions at wing, Jeff Skinner

[LTS]

I'm very much wait and see... and also it depends on what Skinner's ask is although frankly, if they even come close to maintaining their current pace for games I think he'd be crazy to go anywhere else.

 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, darksabre said:

James Neal is a bad example though, isn't he? They traded the guy a few years after they signed him to a very reasonable 6 year deal (at 25) and he has continued to produce. If anything they should have kept Neal. 

Was he on both of their last cup teams? 

[That Aud Smell]

Also: It's just not realistic to think about getting Skinner for 5 years, IMO. He's getting a max term deal, and he knows it. 

I mean - it's possible that he'd be persuaded to sign on here for another 5 years so he could play with Eichel, but I'd be stunned if he were to agree to that. I wouldn't, were I in his position.

[LGR4GM]

So you are arguing for him getting an 8 year deal? He is eligible for one correct or was he not on the Sabres in time to qualify for that? 

[That Aud Smell]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

So you are arguing for him getting an 8 year deal? He is eligible for one correct or was he not on the Sabres in time to qualify for that? 

I'm not really arguing anything. I thumbs-upped the comment above about Skinner being a streaky scorer.

And I'm not sure if the Sabres can offer him 8 years. I'm saying that there are other teams in the league that would be prepared to give him 7 years and ~$50M.

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Was he on both of their last cup teams? 

He could have been. He very nearly won a Cup in Vegas last year.

Maybe Pittsburgh would have won more Cups with him than with Hornqvist and Spaling... 

[WildCard]

7 years is fine. Is it ideal? No. Is he going to be as good at 34? No. Is he going to become Moulson and completely useless? No

@SabresStats
Jeff Skinner is tied for 6th in the NHL with 5 even strength goals this season. #Sabres

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

7 years is fine. Is it ideal? No. Is he going to be as good at 34? No. Is he going to become Moulson and completely useless? No

@SabresStats
Jeff Skinner is tied for 6th in the NHL with 5 even strength goals this season. #Sabres

Mmmm even strength scoring. That's the stuff. 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Mmmm even strength scoring. That's the stuff. 

Skinner is something like 5th in ES goals over the last 5 years. 

He also has a +8. You guys are kinda convincing me we should just sign him. 

[Scottysabres]

I see conversations on term and length, IF, this Jack/Jeff relationship continues to blossom and bare fruit. I also see sensible talk on age, if a new contract, say 7 x 7 were offered, he would turn 34 in May of the last year of that contract. Those are 4 to 5 prime years. And while his speed may, and it's only a may at this point, digress a bit, those hands and shot accuracy I very rich skill set to have in to your early to mid 30's.

I just don't see a down side on the age issue barring injury, at this early point of the conversation. And yes, only 2 selections, because the question itself is based off of already existing results. I will redefine the thread let's say mid season and pre deadline.

[Doohicksie]

Skinner is also +8 on the season so far.  +8!  And he's one of 8 Sabres who have a positive +/-.  How long has it been that we've had that may players on the good side of the +/-?

[That Aud Smell]

19 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I see conversations on term and length, IF, this Jack/Jeff relationship continues to blossom and bare fruit. I also see sensible talk on age, if a new contract, say 7 x 7 were offered, he would turn 34 in May of the last year of that contract. Those are 4 to 5 prime years. And while his speed may, and it's only a may at this point, digress a bit, those hands and shot accuracy I very rich skill set to have in to your early to mid 30's.

I just don't see a down side on the age issue barring injury, at this early point of the conversation. And yes, only 2 selections, because the question itself is based off of already existing results. I will redefine the thread let's say mid season and pre deadline.

I mean this with love: The malaprops in this post are delicious. #barefruit

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Skinner is also +8 on the season so far.  +8!  And he's one of 8 Sabres who have a positive +/-.  How long has it been that we've had that may players on the good side of the +/-?

Paging pi ...

I need the TR+/- on this.  Stat ...

[nfreeman]

The trade deadline is Feb. 25.  The ASG is Jan. 25.

If Skinner and Eichel keep tearing it up and the Sabres continue to look greatly improved, I think JBott starts negotiating an extension with Skinner around New Year's and hopefully gets it done in early January.

The later it gets in the season, the more likely it is that he goes to UFA.

51 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I appreciate the Prince sighting, but do you not think Skinner is better than Vanek? 

[TrueBlueGED]

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

The trade deadline is Feb. 25.  The ASG is Jan. 25.

If Skinner and Eichel keep tearing it up and the Sabres continue to look greatly improved, I think JBott starts negotiating an extension with Skinner around New Year's and hopefully gets it done in early January.

The later it gets in the season, the more likely it is that he goes to UFA.

I appreciate the Prince sighting, but do you not think Skinner is better than Vanek? 

Well, in 8 season as a pro, Skinner has never exceeded 63 points. Vanek did it 4 of his first 8 years. Skinner's career points-per-game average is 0.66, whereas Vanek's is 0.78. Skinner has traditionally had better possession metrics and is certainly the better player right now, but comparing him to Vanek in his prime is a whole 'nother animal.

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

James Neal is a bad example though, isn't he? They traded the guy a few years after they signed him to a very reasonable 6 year deal (at 25) and he has continued to produce. If anything they should have kept Neal. 

They traded Neal for a forward that's worse, and then also traded for an even more expensive winger.

The attitude we have in this thread has nothing to do with why they did that 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[MattPie]

Just now, TrueBlueGED said:

Well, in 8 season as a pro, Skinner has never exceeded 63 points. Vanek did it 4 of his first 8 years. Skinner's career points-per-game average is 0.66, whereas Vanek's is 0.78. Skinner has traditionally had better possession metrics and is certainly the better player right now, but comparing him to Vanek in his prime is a whole 'nother animal.

I'm wary of the NHL environment for 2 or 3 of Vanek's first 4 years. So many points to be had those years.

[Randall Flagg]

I'm not sure if I want to sign Jeff for the money he's going to get. 

[LGR4GM]

59 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Skinner is something like 5th in ES goals over the last 5 years. 

He also has a +8. You guys are kinda convincing me we should just sign him. 

Found it:

Buffalo Sabres Stats‏ @SabresStats 11h11 hours ago

MoThat really shouldn’t come as a surprise to you though... Skinner’s 79 even strength goals since the beginning of the 2015-16 season are 5th most in the NHL. Only Tarasenko (86), Patrick Kane (84), Ovechkin (82) and Marchand (80) have more.

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm not sure if I want to sign Jeff for the money he's going to get. 

7yrs, 9mil? 

[TrueBlueGED]

16 minutes ago, MattPie said:

I'm wary of the NHL environment for 2 or 3 of Vanek's first 4 years. So many points to be had those years.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/nhl/average-goals-scored-per-game-in-the-nhl.aspx

05-06 for sure, but that wasn't one of Vanek's >63 point seasons. Vanek's second best season (rated purely by raw points, because I don't have time for more thorough analysis) was in 2010-11 with 73 points, and the average team was scoring 2.73 goals per game. That 2.73 goals per game was the same as in 2016-17, when you guessed it, Jeff Skinner had....*drum roll*.....63 points. Vanek was in his 6th season and Skinner in his 7th, respectively, so it's not like Vanek was a more developed hockey player.

Again, Skinner's possession metrics have been better, and I wouldn't be surprised if his even strength scoring rates were better. I'm just saying, it's not clear on the surface that Skinner is better.

Edit: Incoming sarcasm.

Vanek is a +9 on his career, whereas Skinner is -87. So obviously good ol' Tom was light-years ahead of Skinner defensively.

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Found it:

Buffalo Sabres Stats‏ @SabresStats 11h11 hours ago

MoThat really shouldn’t come as a surprise to you though... Skinner’s 79 even strength goals since the beginning of the 2015-16 season are 5th most in the NHL. Only Tarasenko (86), Patrick Kane (84), Ovechkin (82) and Marchand (80) have more.

7yrs, 9mil? 

That seems high to me. I'm anticipating more like $j7.5-$8M over 7 years. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by TrueBlueGED

[...]

A Toews/Kane type pairing for less money?  If that's what they are, then, I think it's a no-brainer.  After, of course, a reasonable try-before-you-buy period.

[...]

 

[Norcal]

I'd wait a bit. He's been great so far though so I'm leaning towards signing him right now. I like his game.

[bob_sauve28]

I think its a no brainer, we offer him as much as we think someone else will and hope he likes being here. But its all up to him. Maybe he wants to be in NY OR LA. 

 

Really hope we keep him but I hope he is traded if we can't sign him. Letting an asset go for nothing is just stupid. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I appreciate the Prince sighting, but do you not think Skinner is better than Vanek? 

Thanks to @TrueBlueGED for doing the work on this one. It struck me as a bold statement when I read it. (Hey - seen what I did there?)

They're both very nice players, in their primes. Different skill sets, so it is an interesting comparison, I guess. Not for nothing: Vanek never had someone in the pivot like Eichel with whom to play.