How Long Does JBot Get?

[PerreaultForever]

There's a how long does Housley get topic, and everybody knows the first panic GM move is fire the coach, but would it really be wrong to start to question JBot a little too?

So the positives:

Being gifted Sheary in a Penguins salary dump. Awesome gift from his old team.

Got rid of Lehner and signed Hutton for what might be a bargain price. Looks like a great move.

Won a lottery. Better to be lucky than good? Dahlin will be great. Everybody would have picked him.

Seems to be making Rochester into a good team and the depth at the farm level seems to be trending in the right direction.

Didn't dump a load of cash at Reinhart. This one might be arguable, but so far it looks smart.

 

Negatives:

ROR trade looking really bad. Berglund healthy scratch. Tage AHlLcaliber, Sobodka meh but ok I guess but nobody to fill the PP shoes or take the minutes.

Skinner trade. So far a floater who doesn't want to be here. Carolina seems to be doing better without him. 

Kane trade. Didn't get much out of that either did we?

Roster rebuilt but looking at it, the talent level is lower, nobody can score goals aside from Sheary with Jack and most of it is B grade at best. 

End the losing culture? Doesn't look like it, as they've fallen apart on this road trip already.

Hired Housley. ???

Drafting too soon to tell.

 

I'm not seeing a lot of genius, but we shall see in time. At this moment, aside from Arizona, I see a lot of teams rebuilding faster and better than we have. Now some of that is on Murray still but really, Ottawa was gutted and even they're doing better than us not to mention Florida, Jersey, Carolina etc .  It's damn frustrating. 

 

 

 

[JJFIVEOH]

All good points. But, it better work because I'm not going through another rebuild. 

[Sabre1974]

Is it going to be pretty much the same as last year if not slightly worse with the additions of sheary and Skinner and the O'Reilly trade but the loss of kane and O'Reilly having a worse impact. Will we not see it get better until 19-20 when Smith, asplund , oloffson, nylander, pilut, guhle and borgen are hopefully full time sabres?  I want us winning now as much as the rest but is this how things will be for the rest of this season??

[Radar]

Too early to judge. I think Housley has enough talent to be around a .500 team.

[French Collection]

4-5 years should be his leash length, unless he totally screws up some trades. I think the Pegulas like him and have bought into his patient approach. 

[Sabre1974]

6 minutes ago, French Collection said:

4-5 years should be his leash length, unless he totally screws up some trades. I think the Pegulas like him and have bought into his patient approach. 

That's what gets me thinking nothing will happen with him anytime soon and why this season will mirror last. As much as it will be hard to take if it means the Rochester guys taking us further forward next year then I am willing to wait. We didn't have the luxury last year of a asplund, pilut, borgen and oloffson waiting in the wings although we did have Smith, nylander and guhle. All of them will better prepared for the NHL when there time comes. Hopefully some of them are here this season. 

[Ross Rhea]

IMO JBot inherited a mess. The farm was barren, Kane, RR, Lehner by all accounts were not very good locker room guys so something had to give. Not sold on Housley yet but they do appear to at least be playing closer to a full game than they used to. I think they are getting it and will turn the corner soon (hopefully). If not Housley will be gone and Taylor will be coach, bank it.

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

While I'm still on the fence with Housely, I'm more than happy giving Botterill the benefit of the doubt for the next few seasons. I'd rather have the prospects get "overcooked" in Rochester than come up to Buffalo raw and completely fall flat.

Also, nobody was trading for Kane last year. I'd rather get the AAAA prospect  in O'Regan and a 1st for him than nothing.

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, Ho-Chi-Sock said:

While I'm still on the fence with Housely, I'm more than happy giving Botterill the benefit of the doubt for the next few seasons. I'd rather have the prospects get "overcooked" in Rochester than come up to Buffalo raw and completely fall flat.

Also, nobody was trading for Kane last year. I'd rather get the AAAA prospect  in O'Regan and a 1st for him than nothing.

This isn't directed at you but I find the whole cooking analogies a little weird. They need seasoning, let him marinate. It just gives me too much of a Hansel & Grettle feel. ?

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

15 minutes ago, inkman said:

This isn't directed at you but I find the whole cooking analogies a little weird. They need seasoning, let him marinate. It just gives me too much of a Hansel & Grettle feel. ?

The bones of this team are nearly ready. The bones.....

[LTS]

The right move, despite the impatient fan base's near Vesuvian rage, is to let things play out and stop changing things all the time.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Vesuvian rage ... the two words of the day.

Just awesome.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jbot gets as long as he needs.  We are seeing progress.

He said he has a plan.  He said he was going to build from the bottom up and he is.  He also had to rebuild an NHL roster with almost no near ready prospects and no cap room.  

The plan is starting to work despite scoring issues in Buffalo.

The Amerks made the playoffs last season with mostly AHL vets.  Now they are one of hottest and best teams in the A lead by mostly prospects such as Pilut, Smith, Nylander, Guhle, Asplund and Olofsson.  More good prospects are coming such as Davidson, UPL and Pekar. 

He was saddled by TM with the worst roster in the NHL with expensive middle aged players that weren’t earning their keep.  That has mostly changed, but not completely.  Lehrer, Kane (who I have actually grown to like), ROR, and Gorges are gone.  However hold overs like Larsson, Girgensons, Bogo and Okposo remain.  They all need to go.  His acquisitions of Sobotka and Berglund also aren’t looking good.  

He retooled the goaltending this off-season.  He attempted to retool the forwards.  That hasn’t exactly worked, but the Amerks are proving that progress is coming and soon.

He didn’t retool the D because of Dahlin and cap issues, but also because help is coming also from below in Pilut and Guhle.  

This team is still a huge work in progress.  We are 7 games in on a tough schedule with 14 road games in our next 22.  

I don’t know yet if PH is part of the problem or solution.  One huge point of progress is the more active D.  4 goals already is a good change. 

Jbot has 4 years to make this work.  We are on year 2.  However if the NHL team doesn’t show progress, pressure from TP to replace Housley at year’s end.

 

 

[Randall Flagg]

Probably ~4 years total is the minimum

[Sabres Fan in NS]

11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Probably ~4 years total is the minimum

I agree.

I love GA and he knows his stuff, but his first line in his good post said that JBOT gets as long as he needs, but the last sentence he said JBOT has 4 years to make this work.  So, which is it GA?  

I think JBOT will need more than 4 years and that he will get it.

[Stoner]

31 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Probably ~4 years total is the minimum

Orrrrrrr... ownership could dramatically change its philosophy. The current tack, as articulated by Darcy Regier, is that we're not going to lower ourselves to "just" trying to make the playoffs and hoping to catch fire. We're going to build the right way and one day be a Detroit or a Pittsburgh or a Chicago. Especially a Pittsburgh. But it will take time. Lots of time. And patience. And suffering. Over five years after Darcy's "Suffering™" speech, which was made not long before he got canned, somewhat inexplicably, we are nowhere. Nowhere. And people are talking about how long Botterill has, how long before we are — what? — good? A playoff team? A contender? Three years? Five years? 10 more years?

Another approach would be — nuts to this. We are in the entertainment business, and no one is being entertained. The odds of actually ending up another Pittsburgh might be less than the odds of catching fire and winning a Cup in the playoffs. What's more entertaining than the eve of the first playoff game? Than even a modest playoff run? So, let's entertain.

The GM, Botterill or someone else (I'd prefer a hockey president), is instructed to make the playoffs. Now. You trade youth for established talent (I'd say Eichel is a near untouchable and Dahlin is 100% untouchable — but imagine the return right now if GMs started bidding on Dahlin). Reino, Risto, Mitts, tata; decent returns, I'm sure. You bring in a real coach. Someone who has to shave. And who gets up 11 times at night to piss. Gallant! Gallant!

Now, you do all that, and you miss the playoffs. Try again. Are we not more entertained than believing in some fairy tale of future glory? This change in philosophy won't happen, and I sometimes wonder if it's because the owners' philosophy is that principled, or if something else is going on (they don't have faith that they're smart enough to pull off Plan B; the fan base is more than willing to be strung along and hope sells really well, so why not?; etc.)

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by PASabreFan

[North Buffalo]

Bottom line it takes Talent, Sabres dont have ennough especially up front.  Next one or two drafts depending 1st rounders will make it happen.  But yeah the wait sucks.  You could be a Leaf fan waiting for over 60 years.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

54 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Orrrrrrr... ownership could dramatically change its philosophy. The current tack, as articulated by Darcy Regier, is that we're not going to lower ourselves to "just" trying to make the playoffs and hoping to catch fire. We're going to build the right way and one day be a Detroit or a Pittsburgh or a Chicago. Especially a Pittsburgh. But it will take time. Lots of time. And patience. And suffering. Over five years after Darcy's "Suffering™" speech, which was made not long before he got canned, somewhat inexplicably, we are nowhere. Nowhere. And people are talking about how long Botterill has, how long before we are — what? — good? A playoff team? A contender? Three years? Five years? 10 more years?

Another approach would be — nuts to this. We are in the entertainment business, and no one is being entertained. The odds of actually ending up another Pittsburgh might be less than the odds of catching fire and winning a Cup in the playoffs. What's more entertaining than the eve of the first playoff game? Than even a modest playoff run? So, let's entertain.

The GM, Botterill or someone else (I'd prefer a hockey president), is instructed to make the playoffs. Now. You trade youth for established talent (I'd say Eichel is a near untouchable and Dahlin is 100% untouchable — but imagine the return right now if GMs started bidding on Dahlin). Reino, Risto, Mitts, tata; decent returns, I'm sure. You bring in a real coach. Someone who has to shave. And who gets up 11 times at night to piss. Gallant! Gallant!

Now, you do all that, and you miss the playoffs. Try again. Are we not more entertained than believing in some fairy tale of future glory? This change in philosophy won't happen, and I sometimes wonder if it's because the owners' philosophy is that principled, or if something else is going on (they don't have faith that they're smart enough to pull off Plan B; the fan base is more than willing to be strung along and hope sells really well, so why not?; etc.)

 

The thing is that when DR made the suffering comment I am certain that he did not mean that management and owners would choose the nastyness of the tank job.

The tank actually set up the suffering to be much longer than DR had expected.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

8 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Bottom line it takes Talent, Sabres dont have ennough especially up front.  Next one or two drafts depending 1st rounders will make it happen.  But yeah the wait sucks.  You could be a Leaf fan waiting for over 60 years.

Not too split hairs here, but Leaves fans have been waiting 51 years and counting, which is not that much longer than Sabres fans ... 48 years and counting.

[7+6=13]

10 hours ago, JJFIVEOH said:

All good points. But, it better work because I'm not going through another rebuild. 

You should go now.  

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, N S said:

The thing is that when DR made the suffering comment I am certain that he did not mean that management and owners would choose the nastyness of the tank job.

The tank actually set up the suffering to be much longer than DR had expected.

Umm, he'd replaced Ruff w/ Rolston, then KEPT Rolston after an "exhaustive" search for a competent head coach (which was NEARLY as extensive & effective as OJ's search on every golf course in this country for Nicole's killer) & started the trading present for future which had the team COMPLETELY unwatchable during the Autumn of '13.  After they IMPROVED by bringing Nolan in as head coach after Regier got punted, they STILL finished 14 points worse than the 29th place team.

Really believe that Regier was told to lose in '13-'14 (either after suggesting it himself to upper management or having it dictated from above; doesn't matter the source of the mandate, either way it was embraced) & he was darn certain to make sure he achieved that mandate.

[Hoss]

I honestly feel very good about Botterill and his capabilities. Seems like a guy who works hard and has a pulse on where the team needs to go. We’ll see if he can get them there.

I want to be as patient as reasonably possible with him. I give him at least NEXT season and as long as they’re not a bottom feeder I give him another. If the team finished bottom five each of the next two seasons then things change.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Umm, he'd replaced Ruff w/ Rolston, then KEPT Rolston after an "exhaustive" search for a competent head coach (which was NEARLY as extensive & effective as OJ's search on every golf course in this country for Nicole's killer) & started the trading present for future which had the team COMPLETELY unwatchable during the Autumn of '13.  After they IMPROVED by bringing Nolan in as head coach after Regier got punted, they STILL finished 14 points worse than the 29th place team.

Really believe that Regier was told to lose in '13-'14 (either after suggesting it himself to upper management or having it dictated from above; doesn't matter the source of the mandate, either way it was embraced) & he was darn certain to make sure he achieved that mandate.

Do you have to look this stuff up, or is it all that steel trap mind of yours?

LOL .. you really do have a solid remembering of all the details and time frames.

[Stoner]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Umm, he'd replaced Ruff w/ Rolston, then KEPT Rolston after an "exhaustive" search for a competent head coach (which was NEARLY as extensive & effective as OJ's search on every golf course in this country for Nicole's killer) & started the trading present for future which had the team COMPLETELY unwatchable during the Autumn of '13.  After they IMPROVED by bringing Nolan in as head coach after Regier got punted, they STILL finished 14 points worse than the 29th place team.

Really believe that Regier was told to lose in '13-'14 (either after suggesting it himself to upper management or having it dictated from above; doesn't matter the source of the mandate, either way it was embraced) & he was darn certain to make sure he achieved that mandate.

I think you've said in the past that Regier got fired because he did too good a job of losing. I never really bought that. I think there was a power struggle about the "extent of the rebuild" (to use Darcy's phrase from a GR interview in the spring of 13), and I think that struggle cost Darcy, then Pat, their jobs. I can almost envision Darcy quitting, then getting a golden parachute of sorts for his years of service.

43 minutes ago, N S said:

The thing is that when DR made the suffering comment I am certain that he did not mean that management and owners would choose the nastyness of the tank job.

The tank actually set up the suffering to be much longer than DR had expected.

This sounds right.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, N S said:

I agree.

I love GA and he knows his stuff, but his first line in his good post said that JBOT gets as long as he needs, but the last sentence he said JBOT has 4 years to make this work.  So, which is it GA?  

I think JBOT will need more than 4 years and that he will get it.

I forgot the “at least” 4 years to make it work.  If we continue to progress then longer