Do the Owners care about the Players?

[That Aud Smell]

21 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

If you think Hoss' perspective was taught to him in an undergrad class, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. He's way off the deep end comparing paid labor relations to slavery.

However, if we want to be snarky instead of promoting meaningful dialogue, the real world for a person of color and/or woman is quite a bit different than someone such as yourself, a middle-aged middle-class white dude.

Waaaaaaaayyy off. Maybe his girlfriend is still refusing to take out the trash?

Not sure what the second parag. is about.

[WildCard]

God dammit go to the other thread!

[That Aud Smell]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

23 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

If you think Hoss' perspective was taught to him in an undergrad class, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. He's way off the deep end comparing paid labor relations to slavery.

However, if we want to be snarky instead of promoting meaningful dialogue, the real world for a person of color and/or woman is quite a bit different than someone such as yourself, a middle-aged middle-class white dude.

Waaaaaaaayyy off. Maybe his girlfriend is still refusing to take out the trash?

Not sure what the second parag. is about.

[Hoss]

Does SDS care about us? ?

[Hoss]

Yes, I used hyperbole. It started an interesting conversation, though. And I’m surely not the first or most intelligent person to bring it up.

Adrian Peterson, Colin Kaepernick, several people in response to Bob McNair’s “inmates” comment, Anthony Prior (former NFL player who literally wrote the book on this) and Philly writer Solomon Jones. The last one was from a quick google search about Jerry Jones and slavery because I remember it being a hot debate.

Stephen A. Smith made a point about ALL athletes (not just black ones) the other day: those who are often in trouble with the law are more acceptable than those who speak out but behave properly. Why? Because those who get in trouble with the law are easier to control. They have to be docile. It makes sense; you’re in trouble you have to play along. But the owners seek those situations out more actively than those like Dez Bryant, Colin Kaepernick, Eric Reid and the like.

The exception to every rule is production and supreme talent. Because that’s cash.

[LGR4GM]

Now that is an interesting thought. Do owners only care when it impacts their cash flow? 

 

 

Also thanks mods for merging, Nfreeman or Chz, not sure who did it. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by LGR4GM

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Now that is an interesting thought. Do owners only care when it impacts their cash flow? 

 

 

Also thanks mods for merging, Nfreeman or Chz, not sure who did it. 

I think owners care more about players when the cash flow is good. Imagine if the Sabres had been bad when the team was founded back in the day. Imagine if no one bought tickets? Maybe the Knoxes wouldn't have been so nice...

Look at Ottawa. The ownership there is ruining things at both ends. They care so little about their players that they're ruining the team which is hurting their cash flow and making them care even less about the players. The snake is eating its tail. 

What about when the Sabres were a mess? Or Chicago? Or Florida?

I think when ownership is raking in the green they might feel motivated to turn on the good will. But I don't think it's a given. 

[Hoss]

I think there are more than a few owners who are good at making it seem like they care. I think there are fewer that actually care.

There are also a handful who THINK they care, and genuinely believe their actions are helpful and caring, but are wrong.

[TrueBlueGED]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Waaaaaaaayyy off. Maybe his girlfriend is still refusing to take out the trash?

Not sure what the second parag. is about.

It was regarding his usual Freeman-style quip about gender/race/culture/social justice.

[Hank]

Suicidal thoughts amongst the retired are common in all facet's of society. Sports, military, corporate, everywhere. I went through it myself. It's a tough transition. 

Hockey is a business, ROI matters. 

Players are slaves? Typical Hoss. Also predictable which posters jump on board. Good grief. 

[shrader]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Now that is an interesting thought. Do owners only care when it impacts their cash flow?

Is it really all that different than many other businesses, especially the larger ones?  It operates on a different scale, but I'm willing to bet you'll find similarities just about everywhere.  As people have already said, each individual is going to be different, but in general, the bottom line is going to rule at the end of the day.

 

And this trend of comparing things to slavery really needs to stop.  The only comparison I'm willing to accept is "pro sports are nothing like slavery".  In a world where we still have human trafficking issues, whether it's sex trade or whatever else, it's just plain stupid.  If you want to take a setting where people are given 6+ figure salaries to play a game, then say it is just like another system where people would be tortured or killed if they refused to do your work, you've immediately lost me.

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, shrader said:

Is it really all that different than many other businesses, especially the larger ones?  It operates on a different scale, but I'm willing to bet you'll find similarities just about everywhere.  As people have already said, each individual is going to be different, but in general, the bottom line is going to rule at the end of the day.

 

 

Yup. I'm 100% certain that my employer only cares about my health and well being as it relates to their bottom line.  And that's fine.  I only care about their bottom line as it relates to my health and well being.

And this is exactly why we still need labor being represented in politics.

[drnkirishone]

Sports team owners are incentivized to only care about the short term health of players. The average pro career is what 3 to 4 seasons?

Why care if your employee may develop diabetes if he/she only has 4 years of working. Load them up with sugary energy drinks and maximize the profit potential you get 

[TheAud]

 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, drnkirishone said:

Sports team owners are incentivized to only care about the short term health of players. The average pro career is what 3 to 4 seasons?

Why care if your employee may develop diabetes if he/she only has 4 years of working. Load them up with sugary energy drinks and maximize the profit potential you get 

I specifically recall hearing of NFL players whose livers were just shot because of the massive amounts of ibuprofen they were pumped with on a preventive/maintenance basis.

[darksabre]

19 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I specifically recall hearing of NFL players whose livers were just shot because of the massive amounts of ibuprofen they were pumped with on a preventive/maintenance basis.

I have to imagine that if you were to look at how often medical staff take advantage of players/prey on their insecurities in order to "treat" them, unethical behavior is probably far more likely in the NFL than the NHL. NFL careers are shorter, more violent, and as a player you are much more replaceable because of the larger talent pool. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of NFL players have no idea about the risks they are taking. 

[Hank]

A young Filipino woman replies to a job opportunity in South Korea. The company interviews her, helps her get her paperwork in order and flies her into Seoul. When she arrives, they take her passport and force her to work as a juicy girl in a bar on hooker Hill in Iteawon.  She's told she can work off her debt for bringing her over by earning xx amount of dollars by getting men to buy her drinks and turning tricks. Sometimes hooking is optional depending on the owner. If she's lucky, a GI will fall in love with her, buy her freedom, and marry her. These are woman who are being prayed upon. Football players have a job, to play football. If they can't do their job they may be replaced, like any other employee in any other job. I think calling them preyed upon and referring to them as slaves is the height of stupidity. Why do so many posters think they are educated enough to understand the risks that these poor criminally mistreated professional athletes take, but the athletes themselves are too stupid to understand it them selves? They're all just ignorant Meatheads? Pathetic. 

[SwampD]

45 minutes ago, Hank said:

A young Filipino woman replies to a job opportunity in South Korea. The company interviews her, helps her get her paperwork in order and flies her into Seoul. When she arrives, they take her passport and force her to work as a juicy girl in a bar on hooker Hill in Iteawon.  She's told she can work off her debt for bringing her over by earning xx amount of dollars by getting men to buy her drinks and turning tricks. Sometimes hooking is optional depending on the owner. If she's lucky, a GI will fall in love with her, buy her freedom, and marry her. These are woman who are being prayed upon. Football players have a job, to play football. If they can't do their job they may be replaced, like any other employee in any other job. I think calling them preyed upon and referring to them as slaves is the height of stupidity. Why do so many posters think they are educated enough to understand the risks that these poor criminally mistreated professional athletes take, but the athletes themselves are too stupid to understand it them selves? They're all just ignorant Meatheads? Pathetic. 

From extreme viewpoint to another, I guess.

 

[TheAud]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

A young Filipino woman replies to a job opportunity in South Korea. The company interviews her, helps her get her paperwork in order and flies her into Seoul. When she arrives, they take her passport and force her to work as a juicy girl in a bar on hooker Hill in Iteawon.  She's told she can work off her debt for bringing her over by earning xx amount of dollars by getting men to buy her drinks and turning tricks. Sometimes hooking is optional depending on the owner. If she's lucky, a GI will fall in love with her, buy her freedom, and marry her. These are woman who are being prayed upon. Football players have a job, to play football. If they can't do their job they may be replaced, like any other employee in any other job. I think calling them preyed upon and referring to them as slaves is the height of stupidity. Why do so many posters think they are educated enough to understand the risks that these poor criminally mistreated professional athletes take, but the athletes themselves are too stupid to understand it them selves? They're all just ignorant Meatheads? Pathetic. 

 

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

From extreme viewpoint to another, I guess.

 

If Hank is extreme here, it's because he's extremely correct. 

Here's another group of people (like, maybe a million people)  who actually deserve our concern, as opposed to well paid Western athletes voluntarily participating in their chosen profession:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_reeducation_camp

The key here is coercion. No one is coercing players to sign contracts with NHL teams or come from Russia and Europe to play in North America. Whereas the Filipino women in Hank's example and the Uyghur's in mine are in fact slaves or prisoners. To refer to an NHL player's circumstances with the same language is offensive. 

 

[matter2003]

The owners keep crying how broke they are and yet the salary cap has skyrocketed due to revenue increases since the last CBA.

Something doesn't add up. The salary cap cant keep increasing when nobody is making money.

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The owners keep crying how broke they are and yet the salary cap has skyrocketed due to revenue increases since the last CBA.

Something doesn't add up. The salary cap cant keep increasing when nobody is making money.

You're probably right, the owners are full of schit. They're business owners, and like all business owners (few exceptions maybe?), They want to maximize profits. That doesn't equate to being slave owners. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Sakman said:

 

If Hank is extreme here, it's because he's extremely correct. 

Here's another group of people (like, maybe a million people)  who actually deserve our concern, as opposed to well paid Western athletes voluntarily participating in their chosen profession:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_reeducation_camp

The key here is coercion. No one is coercing players to sign contracts with NHL teams or come from Russia and Europe to play in North America. Whereas the Filipino women in Hank's example and the Uyghur's in mine are in fact slaves or prisoners. To refer to an NHL player's circumstances with the same language is offensive. 

 

Look, I think using the term slave owners is beyond ridiculous, too, but to say they are not being exploited to some extent (maybe even a large extent in some cases) because in some places in the world there are people that are being exploited more, is silly.

[That Aud Smell]

@Hoss acknowledged the slave metaphor was hyperbole, y’all.

A bit of incendiary hyperbole. But hyperbole.

[TheAud]

10 hours ago, SwampD said:

Look, I think using the term slave owners is beyond ridiculous, too, but to say they are not being exploited to some extent (maybe even a large extent in some cases) because in some places in the world there are people that are being exploited more, is silly.

I'm not making that argument at all. I don't think NHL players are being exploited. No coercion, no exploitation. My point was that even if you think they are being exploited for whatever reason, the level of angst should be just about nil. And we are agreeing on the silliness of calling it slavery or some similar term.

I was imagining a level of angst similar to that of the baggage retrieval system at Heathrow. (A brilliant ironic statement by Monty Python that apparently only I find amusing based on my post earlier in this thread). 

[SwampD]

19 minutes ago, Sakman said:

I'm not making that argument at all. I don't think NHL players are being exploited. No coercion, no exploitation. My point was that even if you think they are being exploited for whatever reason, the level of angst should be just about nil. And we are agreeing on the silliness of calling it slavery or some similar term.

I was imagining a level of angst similar to that of the baggage retrieval system at Heathrow. (A brilliant ironic statement by Monty Python that apparently only I find amusing based on my post earlier in this thread).  

I think that is most likely true. Not sure I can say the same about football.

And sorry I missed the video yesterday. Maybe I'm overly caffeinated right now, but I'm finding it immensely amusing right now.