Eleven Posted August 29, 2018 Report Posted August 29, 2018 2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said: I think one of Francis's chief failures as a pope has been his inability to get his head wrapped around the nature and extent of the sexual abuse problem in the RC Church. But I think he's shown signs of being able to learn and admit mistakes. Which country was it - Chile? - where he initially expressed skepticism over claims of abuse and then later came back with a big ol' mea culpa. There have been several Chilean (?) bishops who have resigned in the wake of the allegations being investigated and validated. I'm really not sure what to make of the Vigano stuff. It feels political. For my own part, I want every last one of the abusers and enablers out on their fuc.king ears. Out. Get the fu.ck out of my Church. There's a natural, almost inevitable fraternal sense of loyalty that priests develop for each other -- it's not unlike what cops experience (blue wall of silence, etc.). So many priests end up with a sense of superiority over lay people. A sense of entitlement because they sacrifice so much (and, honestly, so many of them do). Anyway, priests often become "churchmen" -- devoted first to the preservation of the mother Church's order and hierarchy. Well, fu.ck that sideways. Time for change, motherfukkers. I don't begrudge anyone who feels differently -- that the Church's culture of abuse and enabling abuse is a bridge too far -- but, for my own part, I have such a stake in the thing that my reaction is to tell them to get out -- I don't want to leave because they're there. They are like intruders in my home. Amen. 1
Eleven Posted August 29, 2018 Report Posted August 29, 2018 Well, if you have access to the New York Times, you'll have an insight into Vigano's motives, yet again (apart from the link above). I can't link to it because I read it in print, but Vigano, yeah, not to be trusted, exactly. Even his going into hiding move is a bunch of nonsense.
ubkev Posted August 30, 2018 Author Report Posted August 30, 2018 8 hours ago, Eleven said: Well, if you have access to the New York Times, you'll have an insight into Vigano's motives, yet again (apart from the link above). I can't link to it because I read it in print, but Vigano, yeah, not to be trusted, exactly. Even his going into hiding move is a bunch of nonsense. He did kinda drop it as an 11 page drive by. He had it published and then was all like, ok I'm done here, let us pray.
Eleven Posted September 3, 2018 Report Posted September 3, 2018 Lots of press discrediting Vigano these last few days...
5th line wingnutt Posted September 3, 2018 Report Posted September 3, 2018 Pope Francis takes action!
That Aud Smell Posted September 5, 2018 Report Posted September 5, 2018 More recently, I saw that Francis was urging silence and prayer in response to these allegations. I dunno, man. I think he needs to address the claims in some way. The sad thing is, it seems clear that everyone in Church hierarchy - Francis included - is having a very churchman-like response to this dust-up. They all seem to know that this is not about the atrocities committed against children and the vulnerable, it is a play for power. Which frustrates the sh1t out of me.
Eleven Posted September 6, 2018 Report Posted September 6, 2018 28 minutes ago, Sabel79 said: Oh s**t. This is good news. 1
ubkev Posted September 13, 2018 Author Report Posted September 13, 2018 https://www.wkbw.com/longform/7-i-team-church-record-show-more-than-100-accused-priests-not-42-as-stated-by-bishop-malone Oh boy... There's just so much wrong. At what point do you take a flame thrower to it all?
Eleven Posted September 13, 2018 Report Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, ubkev said: https://www.wkbw.com/longform/7-i-team-church-record-show-more-than-100-accused-priests-not-42-as-stated-by-bishop-malone Oh boy... There's just so much wrong. At what point do you take a flame thrower to it all? There are a couple of problems with the article. One is that it misrepresents (or misunderstands) the diocesan process for dealing with complaints. As with everything else, there are false accusations. Bishop Malone outlined the process in this month's issue of WNY Catholic. The diocese keeps the names of priests who were accused but against whom there is no credible evidence confidential. (IMO, as it should.) Another is that it includes priests who are members of orders. (Christian Brothers, Franciscans, etc.) The diocese has no control over such non-diocesan priests and might not even know if there was an accusation. Edited September 13, 2018 by Eleven
Sabel79 Posted September 13, 2018 Report Posted September 13, 2018 Eleven... with all due respect... no. Even one child violated and then further damaged by the typical response is too many. Debating the number is, at this point, claiming bandaids will fix what is clearly a fatal wound (unless some serious change is affected, but we all know it won't).
Eleven Posted September 14, 2018 Report Posted September 14, 2018 On 9/13/2018 at 10:43 AM, Sabel79 said: Eleven... with all due respect... no. Even one child violated and then further damaged by the typical response is too many. Debating the number is, at this point, claiming bandaids will fix what is clearly a fatal wound (unless some serious change is affected, but we all know it won't). I think serious change will come. But they have to find all of the tumors and remove them with a scalpel, rather than take a chainsaw to the entire body.
Sabel79 Posted September 15, 2018 Report Posted September 15, 2018 18 hours ago, Eleven said: I think serious change will come. But they have to find all of the tumors and remove them with a scalpel, rather than take a chainsaw to the entire body. I wish I could put as much faith as you, or indeed any faith at all, in those responsible for making this happen, if it’s to happen. But the football has been yanked away too many times. Between the various sex abuse issues, the literally hundreds (that we know about) of baby skeletons being exhumed from convent grounds in Ireland, and all the Jesuits our esteemed Pope gladly fed to the Pinochet regeime (and he has, for some reason never been made to answer for) and were never heard from again, the church is... well... unsalvageable.
The Dominator Posted September 16, 2018 Report Posted September 16, 2018 I was born into a Catholic family and was Baptized as a Catholic. As I grew older, I had my reservations about the Church. As more light has been shed on the Church in the recent past, it's been enough for me to decide that I will not be confirmed. I can't, in good conscience, be confirmed as a Catholic. I believe my relationship with the man upstairs is a good one and doesn't need to be potentially tarnished by such an organization. I know my girlfriend's parents would want us married in the church, which would require me to be confirmed. I can't do it. I'm not perfect, but I believe supporting an organization with such a disgusting past (and present) won't do me any good.
Eleven Posted September 19, 2018 Report Posted September 19, 2018 On 9/16/2018 at 5:40 PM, The Dominator said: I was born into a Catholic family and was Baptized as a Catholic. As I grew older, I had my reservations about the Church. As more light has been shed on the Church in the recent past, it's been enough for me to decide that I will not be confirmed. I can't, in good conscience, be confirmed as a Catholic. I believe my relationship with the man upstairs is a good one and doesn't need to be potentially tarnished by such an organization. I know my girlfriend's parents would want us married in the church, which would require me to be confirmed. I can't do it. I'm not perfect, but I believe supporting an organization with such a disgusting past (and present) won't do me any good. I'm not so sure about that. I was going to get married in a Catholic church and my fiancee wasn't Catholic at all. Maybe she got a pass because she was never baptized and never confirmed? In any event, if you get to the point where you want to marry, look into it. It may be possible.
The Dominator Posted September 19, 2018 Report Posted September 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Eleven said: I'm not so sure about that. I was going to get married in a Catholic church and my fiancee wasn't Catholic at all. Maybe she got a pass because she was never baptized and never confirmed? In any event, if you get to the point where you want to marry, look into it. It may be possible. Interesting, I was under the impression I would need to be. We aren't at that point yet to think seriously about it but I'll have to do my research.
That Aud Smell Posted October 19, 2018 Report Posted October 19, 2018 Francis's love-letter to Cardinal Wuerl, upon the latter's resignation, hit me like a gut punch.
LGR4GM Posted October 19, 2018 Report Posted October 19, 2018 On 9/16/2018 at 5:40 PM, The Dominator said: I was born into a Catholic family and was Baptized as a Catholic. As I grew older, I had my reservations about the Church. As more light has been shed on the Church in the recent past, it's been enough for me to decide that I will not be confirmed. I can't, in good conscience, be confirmed as a Catholic. I believe my relationship with the man upstairs is a good one and doesn't need to be potentially tarnished by such an organization. I know my girlfriend's parents would want us married in the church, which would require me to be confirmed. I can't do it. I'm not perfect, but I believe supporting an organization with such a disgusting past (and present) won't do me any good. My brother got married catholic but was never confirmed. Honestly, I wouldn't do it either. It would go against my principles to conform to a religion.
North Buffalo Posted October 19, 2018 Report Posted October 19, 2018 I married a Catholic, Church my wife grew up in wouldnt allow us as a non-catholic. We were married by a former Catholic Priest who became a NY cab driver because he fell in love with a women. Then became a social worker and Unitarian minister. He married us at an old Manor on Kent Island on the Chesapeake Bay.
ubkev Posted February 16, 2019 Author Report Posted February 16, 2019 Pope Francis defrocked McCarrick. Big meeting of the highest of hats coming up to discuss sexual abuse in the church in a couple of weeks. https://apnews.com/33645dd626674bec9ef6198528267dc6?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter
Eleven Posted February 17, 2019 Report Posted February 17, 2019 19 hours ago, ubkev said: Pope Francis defrocked McCarrick. Big meeting of the highest of hats coming up to discuss sexual abuse in the church in a couple of weeks. https://apnews.com/33645dd626674bec9ef6198528267dc6?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter This is fantastic. So many Catholics have been blaming Pope Francis for "doing nothing," when he actually is the one doing something. (Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI knew of these allegations against McCarrick and did nothing.) So, goodbye, Mr. McCarrick (it feels so great to write that!).
SABRES 0311 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Posted February 17, 2019 Any word on criminal charges against those implicated? I would hope so. I’m sure there are a few guys in prison that wouldn’t care if sex offenders were clergy.
Eleven Posted February 19, 2019 Report Posted February 19, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 1:41 PM, SABRES 0311 said: Any word on criminal charges against those implicated? I would hope so. I’m sure there are a few guys in prison that wouldn’t care if sex offenders were clergy. All the allegations are from far too long ago.
SABRES 0311 Posted February 19, 2019 Report Posted February 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Eleven said: All the allegations are from far too long ago. Isn’t it funny how in politics there’s no such thing as too long ago but with stuff like this they try to bury it.
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