TRADE: Sabres acquire Jeff Skinner

[nfreeman]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think there is a fair chance of this being the case.

I think Skinner sees a chance to be near home and pad his stats playing with Jack.

I think Botterill fills a huge need in his lineup with a proven player instead of forcing Thompson or Olofsson or Nylander into something they aren’t ready for.

Depending on how the season goes, they may decide the relationship is worth continuing. If not, Skinner can likely be moved at the deadline.

I listened a little while ago to Skinner’s presser, which I think you mentioned elsewhere.  I completely agree that he evinced zero interest in a long-term deal.  Between that presser and JBott’s comments, it sounds like it has not been discussed at all.  

I could see it getting there, but it sounds quite likely that there will not be an extension in place by the deadline. This would mean the Sabres will have a difficult decision to make, since they will be clinging to a 3-point lead for the wildcard.  

[Doohicksie]

A big part of it will be whether the farm hands develop into legit NHL players.  If Nylander, Olofsson  and/or Smith look good/great, there's no reason to spend the big money on Skinner.

[Hoss]

I think we’re all getting a little ahead of ourselves reading this much into comments. Botterill mentioned the extension is something for down the line. A player in his prime just got jettisoned from the only team he’s known since he took the league by hurricane years ago.

He claimed he hadn’t thought about it but there’s no doubt he has. Maybe conversations have occurred but maybe they haven’t. Even if they haven’t I don’t think Botterill made this move without plans to keep him nor do I think Skinner would waive for a place he doesn’t have some serious interest in staying long-term.

I’m feeling confident he’s here for a while but just deflecting because nobody has offered or signed anything.

[erickompositör72]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

He claimed he hadn’t thought about it but there’s no doubt he has. Maybe conversations have occurred but maybe they haven’t. Even if they haven’t I don’t think Botterill made this move without plans to keep him nor do I think Skinner would waive for a place he doesn’t have some serious interest in staying long-term.

I’m feeling confident he’s here for a while but just deflecting because nobody has offered or signed anything.

I'd probably be more worried if he says he is interested in an extension right now, without even getting to know anyone on the team and not even having had a practice with any of them.

Furthermore, it's just prudent, business-wise, to not show your cards. If he's getting great vibes so far and has a feeling it could work out long-term, no need to say it out loud- gives him more leverage come contract negotiation time.

[sweetlou]

I think JBotts priority right now is signing Reinhart to an extension.  If Reinhart signs a 1 or 2 year show me bridge contract then we may see a contract offered to Skinner before Jan 1st.  If Reinhart sign long term, JBotts may wait closer to trade deadline. 

Either way I feel the first couple months of season will be very interesting on how team meshes and where everyone slots in. 

If Skinner takes off with either Eichel or Mitts and becomes a point per game player, why wouldn't you sign him to an eight year $7.5 million contract?

[StuckinFL]

2 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I think JBotts priority right now is signing Reinhart to an extension.  If Reinhart signs a 1 or 2 year show me bridge contract then we may see a contract offered to Skinner before Jan 1st.  If Reinhart sign long term, JBotts may wait closer to trade deadline. 

Either way I feel the first couple months of season will be very interesting on how team meshes and where everyone slots in. 

If Skinner takes off with either Eichel or Mitts and becomes a point per game player, why wouldn't you sign him to an eight year $7.5 million contract?

Because you'd be buying too many declining years. I think the most we can offer is 6 years. Especially with the fact that you're gonna have to pay Dahlin and Ullmark (if they both shake out). He's fantastic for the next 4 years (hopefully) but by then this team should have 3 people that can come up from Rochester and replace that kind if production, especially with 3 first round picks next year. You don't need to have a Moulson on your team when you're running out of rookie contracts. 

[Neo]

12 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I listened a little while ago to Skinner’s presser, which I think you mentioned elsewhere.  I completely agree that he evinced zero interest in a long-term deal.  Between that presser and JBott’s comments, it sounds like it has not been discussed at all.  

I could see it getting there, but it sounds quite likely that there will not be an extension in place by the deadline. This would mean the Sabres will have a difficult decision to make, since they will be clinging to a 3-point lead for the wildcard.  

You know, if the Sabres are clinging to a three point lead in the Wildcard race, I don’t think the decision will be difficult.  Can you imagine the potential pitchforks and torches if we sent him away in that scenario?

Headline:  Sabres miss playoffs by two points;  excited by extra 2020 first rounder and Swedish LHD prospect.

Oh, the blood, yellow bile, black bile and phlegm!

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, Doohickie said:

A big part of it will be whether the farm hands develop into legit NHL players.  If Nylander, Olofsson  and/or Smith look good/great, there's no reason to spend the big money on Skinner.

Hold the phone. The sabres were absolutely trash last year. There's 100 reasons to sign skinner even if Olofsson or Smith look good. This team doesn't have the luxury to not sign a 30 goal scorer if it can. It's up to botterill though to make sure the big money doesn't hurt us down the road. 

3 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I think JBotts priority right now is signing Reinhart to an extension.  If Reinhart signs a 1 or 2 year show me bridge contract then we may see a contract offered to Skinner before Jan 1st.  If Reinhart sign long term, JBotts may wait closer to trade deadline. 

Either way I feel the first couple months of season will be very interesting on how team meshes and where everyone slots in. 

If Skinner takes off with either Eichel or Mitts and becomes a point per game player, why wouldn't you sign him to an eight year $7.5 million contract?

We should absolutely not sign him for 8 years. 6 is the max and I'd prefer 5. An 8 year deal would make him 35 at the end of it. Way too long. 

[Hoss]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Hold the phone. The sabres were absolutely trash last year. There's 100 reasons to sign skinner even if Olofsson or Smith look good. This team doesn't have the luxury to not sign a 30 goal scorer if it can. It's up to botterill though to make sure the big money doesn't hurt us down the road. 

Indeed. This line that Skinner is just a plug to fill the hole until our prospects are ready is wild. You do that with guys like Pouliot, not a two-time 30 goal scorer in his prime.

If he were to be signed right this moment I think Skinner is worth in the range of six years, $6.5M per. If we could get him at that it’d make me happy. I think more realistically he’ll seek in the range of Kane’s contract, though.

[LGR4GM]

I think 6.5 mil is definitely the range. 

[Weave]

We've been "spoiled" over the last decade regarding having to make decisions about overpaying players in their declining seasons.  tIf JBott builds a winning team, and we want to keep that train on track for a good length of time, we'll have to make that call at some point.  If we end up not signing our 27-28 yr olds to long contracts because they will be in decline, we will be void of those vets that dynasty teams always seem to have.  All it does is shorten our window of opportunity.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is (and not very well), if we want to maintain a team that plays at a high level, signing guys longer than we want to will be inevitable.  It's a good thing.  It means we are trying to win now.  Jeff Skinner might be the right guy to start that trend with.  I don't know.  But I am open to the idea.

I look forward to that happening.  It means we are maintaining our status as buyers and not sellers.

[Huckleberry]

According to leafs fans, he is signing with toronto ?

[dudacek]

53 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Hold the phone. The sabres were absolutely trash last year. There's 100 reasons to sign skinner even if Olofsson or Smith look good. This team doesn't have the luxury to not sign a 30 goal scorer if it can. It's up to botterill though to make sure the big money doesn't hurt us down the road. 

They cap forces good teams to make tough choices. It’s about whether or not Skinner is a core piece and whether he wants to be paid like one.

If Jack and Rasmus are making 10 and Okposo and Risto are making 6, how much can you pay Casey, Sam, Ullmark, Sheary, Scandella and Skinner? They can’t all be 5 million dollar players. If Thompson and Nylander look like 30 goal men, then maybe you’re better off flipping one of your wingers for futures. If they bust, then there’s more pressure to re-sign our vets.

It’s only a problem if we get good, so here’s to good problems.

[Hoss]

56 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

According to leafs fans, he is signing with toronto ?

I saw a lot of Leafs fans saying at the time of the trade that “everybody knows” he’s signing with them. There’s been plenty of talk about them not being able to afford their own guys, let alone adding another $6-7M guy.

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

I saw a lot of Leafs fans saying at the time of the trade that “everybody knows” he’s signing with them. There’s been plenty of talk about them not being able to afford their own guys, let alone adding another $6-7M guy.

There are many Leafs fans who believe every name player from the OHL wants to play there. They spout that out first without considering the cap.

They also have fans who think they are going to run the tables this year.

[Cityo'Rasmii]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

There are many Leafs fans who believe every name player from the OHL wants to play there. They spout that out first without considering the cap.

They also have fans who think they are going to run the tables this year.

Screw the Leafs

[Cityo'Rasmii]

I digress

[matter2003]

On 8/3/2018 at 8:52 PM, Doohickie said:

Yeah that discussed about 9 page ago.

Sorry I cant read all the pages it gives me a headache lol

[Doohicksie]

Where's you commitment???!

[Doohicksie]

On 8/5/2018 at 9:00 AM, LGR4GM said:

Hold the phone. The sabres were absolutely trash last year. There's 100 reasons to sign skinner even if Olofsson or Smith look good. This team doesn't have the luxury to not sign a 30 goal scorer if it can. It's up to botterill though to make sure the big money doesn't hurt us down the road.

There are 7-8 million reasons he won't sign him.

JBot didn't spend the big bux on Kaner, he might not spend them on Skinner either.  I think he'll spend the money on franchise players like Eichel, Dahlin, Mitts, but I'm not sure he'll spend premium dollars on the next tier of players.  Lots of factors will go into JBot's decision, but a key piece is what he has left if Skinner goes. 

He traded ROR because he has faith in Mittelstadt.  If he has similar faith in some of the ascending wingers, I could see him parlaying Skinner into futures at the end of the year, especially if the market will pay him more than JBot is willing to pay.  He's not going to break the bank on a long term deal to keep Skinner if talent is forcing its way up from Rochester.  It would fit JBot's model of building the team from the farm club up.

The better Skinner does, the less likely that the Sabres will re-sign him.  If he scores as much as Kane, he's as good as gone, because I just don't think JBot will spend Kane money on him.  But we'll see.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Doohickie

[...]

24 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

There are 7-8 million reasons he won't sign him.

JBot didn't spend the big bux on Kaner, he might not spend them on Skinner either.  I think he'll spend the money on franchise players like Eichel, Dahlin, Mitts, but I'm not sure he'll spend premium dollars on the next tier of players.  Lots of factors will go into JBot's decision, but a key piece is what he has left if Skinner goes. 

He traded ROR because he has faith in Mittelstadt.  If he has similar faith in some of the ascending wingers, I could see him parlaying Skinner into futures at the end of the year, especially if the market will pay him more than JBot is willing to pay.  He's not going to break the bank on a long term deal to keep Skinner if talent is forcing its way up from Rochester.  It would fit JBot's model of building the team from the farm club up.

The better Skinner does, the less likely that the Sabres will re-sign him.  If he scores as much as Kane, he's as good as gone, because I just don't think JBot will spend Kane money on him.  But we'll see.

This doesn't make sense.  If Skinner does well here, of course he'll get an offer from JBot. Every team needs a guy who puts goals in the net, and if it turns out Skinner can do that for the Sabres, only a fool would let him go.  Between the farm as it stands, and the current roster of picks we have over the next two drafts, JBot doesn't have to worry as much, now, about keeping the farm system stocked.  I think he has taken care of the immediate needs there and has set himself up nicely for the next 2 - 4 years if his approach remains consistent.

If he lets Skinner go, assuming a deal is possible with him and worth doing, then all JBot does is get stuck in constant re-building mode which no one wants.

I think, if anything, if Okposo does well, he might be on the chopping block seeing as his NMC turns into a Modified NTC this season.  That would easily clear cap room for Skinner, and help keep the team young(er/ish).

The other guys he won't have to pay big bucks to for several season, so he has time.  The only immediate need would be contracts for Skinner and Samson.  

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by ...

[Doohicksie]

It's not the immediate need I think he's worried about.  If Skinner wants a max term deal he might not want to give it to him.

I hope I'm wrong.  If Skinner scores 30-40 I want him on my team.  And maybe he was reluctant to keep Kane because he wasn't his guy/trying to change team culture/whatever, but we just saw JBot trade his leading goal scoring winger away this spring for a prospect and picks.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him do it again.

[LTS]

27 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

There are 7-8 million reasons he won't sign him.

JBot didn't spend the big bux on Kaner, he might not spend them on Skinner either.  I think he'll spend the money on franchise players like Eichel, Dahlin, Mitts, but I'm not sure he'll spend premium dollars on the next tier of players.  Lots of factors will go into JBot's decision, but a key piece is what he has left if Skinner goes. 

He traded ROR because he has faith in Mittelstadt.  If he has similar faith in some of the ascending wingers, I could see him parlaying Skinner into futures at the end of the year, especially if the market will pay him more than JBot is willing to pay.  He's not going to break the bank on a long term deal to keep Skinner if talent is forcing its way up from Rochester.  It would fit JBot's model of building the team from the farm club up.

The better Skinner does, the less likely that the Sabres will re-sign him.  If he scores as much as Kane, he's as good as gone, because I just don't think JBot will spend Kane money on him.  But we'll see.

Your assertion is that rather than pay a player now for production that fits the team he will wait and hope a prospect develops and then when they earn the long-term contract at the same age (3-4 years from now) he will pay it or not pay it?

There's zero evidence that Kane would re-sign in Buffalo, let alone at contract terms he received in San Jose.  There's really no evidence that Botterill wanted him on the team. I don't think that plays into the Skinner decision.  Botterill sought out Skinner in a trade.  Skinner wanted to come here.  There may be ulterior motives for both but at the very least these two sought each other out.

The ROR trade could be seen as a move to shed salary at a peak point to obtain a scorer and other players to fill lower roles for a year or two.  It's very possible that the return for ROR next year would not have been as good as this year.  There are many unknowns with regards to ROR.  Was he a problem in the locker room, etc?  In any event, $7.5M might be too much to pay for your eventual 3rd line center.  Get while the getting is good and if the other unknowns were a factor, so be it.  Also, ROR was not a Botterill player.

I would expect that Botterill and Skinner will have a discussion on where his role on the team would be long-term and what contract that dictates.  He's not TOO old for the team and he fits a role that no one else does at the moment.  If, by some miracle, there is a LW that shoots up the depth chart from the farm club then perhaps he trades him, gets value, and uses that to get another player next year.

Either way, I don't think there's enough evidence to support the assertion "Botterill won't spend the money."

 

[Doohicksie]

I'd love to be wrong on this one.  I hope I am.  But I'm not so sure the Kane and Skinner situations are as different as others here on the board are saying. 
Personally I'd like to see Skinner signed by Christmas if he's going to stay.  I don't want to stretch it out.

[shrader]

This is all, of course, assuming that Skinner would want to stay.