Donald J Trump, your thoughts on his Presidency

[drnkirishone]

that women that was killed may have made the decision to be where she was. But she got to that decision by the criminal in orange and his enablers. I blame her as much as I blame the residents of Jonestown for drinking the koolaid

[LGR4GM]

If you are Black in America, peacefully in your own home sleeping, the Police can break in and murder you.

 

If you are White in America, violently breaking your way into the halls of Congress, the Police will help you break in and escort you out safely.

[North Buffalo]

Wyld is this you lol

 

8 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

that women that was killed may have made the decision to be where she was. But she got to that decision by the criminal in orange and his enablers. I blame her as much as I blame the residents of Jonestown for drinking the koolaid

 

[LTS]

On 1/4/2021 at 3:44 PM, LGR4GM said:

Just flamed out a group text over this. Guy brought up how he questions the vote in Pennsylvania and I lost it. So sick and tired of losing  = cheating in their tiny narcissistic hell-scape. They joined a cult but I sure as hell don't have too. 

This should not be a surprise. Parents sue schools because their kids don't get picked for a sport or the school play. They run out and start alternate sports organizations when their kids don't make a team. Our culture is full of examples of people who don't accept they didn't have what it takes and then make excuses about it.  It was bound to make it to the highest level at some point.  Our government is a reflection of the us.  You are right though, it's absolute BS.

14 hours ago, Eleven said:

Might as well be a murderer himself.  The spreading of the "election fraud" nonsense led to a death.  It's on all of their hands.  Even if the woman concerned is on "their side," she's a dead woman, in America, because of him and his cohorts.

LTS, I already know what you're going to say.  But there's a difference between accepting fact and presenting fiction.  If we're going to tolerate presenting fiction here, I'm out.  People already have died.

There is a difference. The fact of the matter remains that when the discussion over fraud was happening the facts were that the people filing lawsuits had the right to do so and until those lawsuits were concluded there was no definitive outcome. There was a most likely outcome and that was acknowledged. The facts are that there is a process to the certification of the votes and the completion of that process signifies the end.  It was not fiction. Claiming that it is fiction is as baseless as claiming that there was election fraud.

As for the person who died. I don't know enough about the situation. Why was she there? Was she part of the protest? I don't know. You certainly didn't know at the time you wrote this. 

You have been emotionally charged over the entirety of the discussion on the Presidential election.  It is understandable. However, it does not mean those who do not agree with you are wrong. It does not mean that they are inciting riots or encouraging terrorism. The entire discussion was around the rights of those people to use the court system to contest the election. That's a conversation about the rights of Americans. Anyone saying they did not have that right was arguing against the rights of Americans.

I will continue below.

12 hours ago, Eleven said:

Since Election Day, @SABRES 0311 has been telling us that this will be a peaceful transition as long as there is no fraud.  There never has been any fraud.  There never has been anything close to it.  I leave it to him to ensure the peaceful transition that he promised.  Nice job so far.

Are you claiming that Sabres0311 knows how these terrorists would act?  You are lumping him into this group and that's patently unfair. He has not indicated any association with them. Much like we prognosticate how a player will play on the ice or a GM will make trades, we don't know, we have hope. It is not up to him to insure there is a peaceful protest any more than it is up to you. Simply claiming this demonstrates a lack of understanding of the situation.

As I have said, these are highly emotional and inflammatory times and those who fall victim to it will find themselves attacking each other verbally or physically. There is no benefit to this. Once you move to those actions you cease to be engaged in an environment of discussion, debate, education, and understanding and instead are only interested in destroying. it does not matter what your political leanings are, it is wrong. 

----------------

Now, I'll comment on yesterday. It is clear that this country has an issue. I am hopeful that actions like these prove to those who were on the fence just how wrong they've been. Whether it was being a Trump supporter, or refusing to acknowledge the racial double standards of law enforcement (and many others).

If you had a group of BLM protesters standing in the street with weapons they would have been shot. Yesterday you had a large group of protesters (they were protesters at that time) standing around with weapons. Nothing happened.  That's just one of many CLEAR examples of the racism that exists.

Now, move to the even more egregious act of violating the sanctity of our government. Every person involved has literally become the terrorist that we've spent trillions on attempting to exterminate in other countries.  There is no difference between what they did and any group of extremists in another country invading their government with force. Not ONE IOTA.

Imagine if you will a world where China, who has heavy interests in the financial well being of the United States, invades the United States because they feel that Democracy is not longer being supported. A coup attempt has occurred and it is in their best interest to move in and makes things more stable. Imagine it.. it seems far fetched but it is exactly what the United States has done in Middle Eastern countries.

The people of this country need to step the F back and recognize what path we're heading down.  I'm not sure they will because today, sitting right next to my headline on the terrorist attack on our nation, was a headline saying Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are discussing divorce. That's the sick twisted BS that has led this country to where its at.  

A few pages ago Weave wanted to know how we get better political candidates? It starts with Americans being far more interesting in who is running their country and far less interested in what two celebrities are doing with their lives. Americans, by and large, are not interested in politics. It's too complicated and they write it off as broken and beyond repair.  They choose to ignore it because fixing it is work and its much easier to claim its just beyond repair. They'll justify it by saying that their lives are okay, so it's not a big deal. As long as I can read about Kim and Kanye it must be okay.  As long as I get my person in office the next time it will fix things.  It's the lies we tell ourselves to help ourselves sleep at night.

If nothing else I hope that yesterday was a punch the punch in the fact that breaks people out of their pacifistic attitude towards government. For all those who want to Make America Great Again, or believed it was Great Already, yesterday was an insult. That was not America, that was the same type of event that we openly condemn when it happens in other countries. 

It's time to take off the red, white, and blue glasses and recognize that we are broken. We have been broken and we can no longer go on acting as though someone else will put it back together for us.  Every American, if you believe in this country, should be standing up to the bullying tactics being enacted and punching that bully in the nose. Not physically, although physical action requires physical reaction.

If you have not yet promised your house and senate representatives that if they do not take action against this criminal President you will vote them out of office (regardless of party affiliation) it should be the next thing you do.  Make it known that your representatives already failed once at removing this idiot from the office. They failed the American people.  All of them.  They serve the citizens of this country, not the other way around.

Yesterday was an attack on the foundations that make us the nation we are.  It cannot be tolerated by anyone who considers this their country. There is no left or right, blue or red here.  

 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

The people of this country need to step the F back and recognize what path we're heading down.  I'm not sure they will because today, sitting right next to my headline on the terrorist attack on our nation, was a headline saying Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are discussing divorce. That's the sick twisted BS that has led this country to where its at.  

A few pages ago Weave wanted to know how we get better political candidates? It starts with Americans being far more interesting in who is running their country and far less interested in what two celebrities are doing with their lives. Americans, by and large, are not interested in politics. It's too complicated and they write it off as broken and beyond repair.  They choose to ignore it because fixing it is work and its much easier to claim its just beyond repair. They'll justify it by saying that their lives are okay, so it's not a big deal. As long as I can read about Kim and Kanye it must be okay.  As long as I get my person in office the next time it will fix things.  It's the lies we tell ourselves to help ourselves sleep at night.

 

I agree with most of what you wrote, and commend you for expressing yourself better than I can.

However, this part I don’t agree with.  I don’t believe that troubles stem from people not being politically engaged enough.  People are more politically engaged than ever before.  We might actually be better off if people were less politically engaged, as strange as that sounds.

You don’t think pure escapist entertainment or celebrities existed 50 years ago, or exist in other countries today?

I believe that our troubles stem from a lack of social intelligence.  We don’t understand each other and we don’t want to try.  We just want to be in our own little echo chambers where we only interact with and hear things from people who we agree with.  Why the heck would we want to hear from someone who thinks differently than us?!    Or someone who is from somewhere else?!  Or someone with a different skin color?!  Or someone who has a different idea of what America should be?!  Its enabled by social media and media that we can tailor to hear only exactly what we want to.

At least that’s my view.

[drnkirishone]

I am sorry LTS but you are taking a generous look back on the whole election fraud claims.

Look back to the summer of 2016, Frump already started claiming election fraud. Election was still months away. He wins, still claims fraud and makes a commission to prove it. Fraud not proven

Flash forward to 2020 and yet again he claims fraud is the only way he loses.

You don't get the benefit of the doubt when you constantly claim fraud without proof. Spreading his lies are dangerous it is like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

It is not a matter of free speech. It is about spreading propaganda from a hostile enemy that just so happens to be the command in chief

[LTS]

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

I agree with most of what you wrote, and commend you for expressing yourself better than I can.

However, this part I don’t agree with.  I don’t believe that troubles stem from people not being politically engaged enough.  People are more politically engaged than ever before.  We might actually be better off if people were less politically engaged, as strange as that sounds.

You don’t think pure escapist entertainment or celebrities existed 50 years ago, or exist in other countries today?

I believe that our troubles stem from a lack of social intelligence.  We don’t understand each other and we don’t want to try.  We just want to be in our own little echo chambers where we only interact with and hear things from people who we agree with.  Why the heck would we want to hear from someone who thinks differently than us?!    Or someone who is from somewhere else?!  Or someone with a different skin color?!  Or someone who has a different idea of what America should be?!  Its enabled by social media and media that we can tailor to hear only exactly what we want to.

At least that’s my view.

I also agree that people are more politically engaged than before and I think its growing. In a strange twisted way I believe the election of Trump actually encouraged that engagement. I still don't believe they are engaged enough. The problem is not just at the Presidential level.  There is also a difference of being engaged and I suppose being intelligently engaged. A lot of people who are engaged are simply following their associated groupthink.

The escapist entertainment and celebrity issue is not purely an American issue, of course not. But at this point 50 years ago I dare say it was an issue in this country. Prior to television perhaps it was less so. You can think the ability to share images in real time as helping that.  Other countries are other countries and they are completely different social beasts with different cultural norms. I am not going to try and associate them because its very hard to do so.

I do think, much like political engagement, there are a lot of people who do want to understand each other. The problem is that there is an old school who does not want that to change. They do not want equality for those who are not white. They do not want to face their racism. They believe that the American way of life is synonymous with the White way of life (whatever that is).  Those people are the ones who continue to sow the seeds.  The problem is that today the few that want to hold on to those ways label anyone who speaks against it with an extreme tag.  Are you anti-American/  Are you anti-Law Enforcement?  Naturally those who are solid critical thinkers know that's absolute trash.  But, and as you suggest, there is a large portion of the population who do want to question what they are being told. They believe the labels because they have associations with Law Enforcement or Republicans or Democrats and they don't want to think critically about their association.  It's much easier to just believe the label or to dismiss it with the "It's not a problem here, in my town."  

I believe a lot of people strongly believed that in Buffalo and Rochester.  Then you see a video of the police pushing down an older gentleman in Buffalo and you have the Daniel Pride death in Rochester and I think (hope?) it opens eyes.  But.. yes.. a lot of people refuse to listen.  They don't want to hear a contrarian opinion. They are as closed off as those who are spewing the contrarian opinion in most cases.  You end up with two people(sides) shouting at each other and no one listening.  Where's the sense in that?

9 minutes ago, drnkirishone said:

I am sorry LTS but you are taking a generous look back on the whole election fraud claims.

Look back to the summer of 2016, Frump already started claiming election fraud. Election was still months away. He wins, still claims fraud and makes a commission to prove it. Fraud not proven

Flash forward to 2020 and yet again he claims fraud is the only way he loses.

You don't get the benefit of the doubt when you constantly claim fraud without proof. Spreading his lies are dangerous it is like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

It is not a matter of free speech. It is about spreading propaganda from a hostile enemy that just so happens to be the command in chief

It's not generous, its accurate.   My reference to the election fraud situation goes back to the specific interactions on this forum regarding the lawsuits being filed and the claims that anyone who presented an opinion that Biden had not yet won the election were sowing the seeds of discontent.  The claim made by Eleven is that those who said that are responsible for what happened yesterday.  It had nothing to do with overall statements made by the criminal in office.

The conversation was not about what Trump said. It was about the fact that Joe Biden can be declared the victor of an election by media agencies but that does not make him the winner.  The process is the process and he is the winner when the process ends. Until then, the legal means of fighting election results are afforded to all Americans and to question their use of them is to suggest Americans should not use all legal means available to them to achieve their goals. It's not just a statue that is convenient for when you it aligns with your thinking. It's the way we do things whether it works for you or against you.

I don't like Trump. I didn't like him when he was nothing more than a failed businessman and wasn't even yet a TV celebrity.  I sure as hell did not like that the Republican party trotted him out as their candidate. I despise his very existence. But I respect that he can say what he wants (within legal reasons) and he is afforded the right to file lawsuits.  I don't have to like it and I want nothing more than for him to be convicted of breaking the law but that's out of my hands. I can only say that I believe he should be convicted and I can put pressure on my representatives (although living in NY most of our representatives would already want that).

 

[Eleven]

If I drop a lit match, and the building catches fire, I started the fire, LTS.  Let's also not pretend that this was about orderly lawsuits.  It was deliberate incitement.

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

If I drop a lit match, and the building catches fire, I started the fire, LTS.  Let's also not pretend that this was about orderly lawsuits.  It was deliberate incitement.

Who are you talking about?  Trump or the people on this forum?  It’s like there is no distinction with you right now.  Please try to make one.

There is a process to certify elections.  I couldn’t be completely sure what would happen until all the challenge lawsuits were complete and the results were certified.  Part of that is because I know that Trump would pull any unethical stunt he could possibly get away with to remain in office.

It doesn’t mean that I liked it, but that was the reality of the situation.

[Eleven]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

Who are you talking about?  Trump or the people on this forum?  It’s like there is no distinction with you right now.  Please try to make one.

 

Anybody who spread rumors of fraud, anywhere.  EDIT:  People act like because we have free speech (which is wonderful), that our speech is free from consequence.  It isn't.  A woman who believed a bunch of conspiracy theories, invented by someone and spread by many, now is dead.  A man is in prison because someone convinced him that a pizzeria in Washington was some kind of underground railroad for child sex slavery.  It is disgusting.  The people who spread these inventions rarely believe them.  The people who act upon them, i.e., the misled, suffer.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Eleven

[Curt]

33 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Anybody who spread rumors of fraud, anywhere.  EDIT:  People act like because we have free speech (which is wonderful), that our speech is free from consequence.  It isn't.  A woman who believed a bunch of conspiracy theories, invented by someone and spread by many, now is dead.  A man is in prison because someone convinced him that a pizzeria in Washington was some kind of underground railroad for child sex slavery.  It is disgusting.  The people who spread these inventions rarely believe them.  The people who act upon them, i.e., the misled, suffer.

Ok, sure, but there is a big difference between telling a bunch of people that there is election fraud, even though you have no proof of it, and saying that we will need to see how the allegations of fraud and lawsuits play out before we know what will happen with the election.

[Sabel79]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Ok, sure, but there is a big difference between telling a bunch of people that there is election fraud, even though you have no proof of it, and saying that we will need to see how the allegations of fraud and lawsuits play out before we know what will happen with the election.

That’s overly generous.  “Election Fraud” was spun out of whole cloth for the sole purpose of subverting the legitimate election results and agitating people into assisting with a coup attempt, which we haven’t seen the end of, when that didn’t work.  
 

There is no “waiting to see how this fraud thing plays out.”  Nobody at the top making that claim actually believes it for a second.  It’s insurrection.  An attempt to tear down our government.  An ongoing attempt to tear down our government and install a new Nazi regime.  This is what they’re doing and who they are.  No other explanation.  No good faith in claiming otherwise.  None.  

[Weave]

I understand the "let's see how the courts play out".  But Sabel79 is absolutely correct. 

There was nothing sincere about the effort.  Between the unproven claims in 2016 and the scorned-in-court claims in 2020 AND the simple fact that many of the states that went for Trump used the same machines, same early and mail in voting rules, and same late voting changes in response to a pandemic and not ONE individual that challenged the votes in MI, PA, GA, AZ, etc was interested in challenging the same machines, rules, and changes in the states that went for Trump. How sincere could the quest for justice really be when you are only seeking it on one side of the aisle?

If you couldn't see the insincerity you weren't opening your eyes.  And if you could see it and gave Trump the benefit of the doubt you were complicit.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Sabel79 said:

That’s overly generous.  “Election Fraud” was spun out of whole cloth for the sole purpose of subverting the legitimate election results and agitating people into assisting with a coup attempt, which we haven’t seen the end of, when that didn’t work.  
 

There is no “waiting to see how this fraud thing plays out.”  Nobody at the top making that claim actually believes it for a second.  It’s insurrection.  An attempt to tear down our government.  An ongoing attempt to tear down our government and install a new Nazi regime.  This is what they’re doing and who they are.  No other explanation.  No good faith in claiming otherwise.  None.  

Yeah, I know it was all made up.  However, there was the possibility that an injustice of some kind would occur or that some actual evidence of fraud would be brought forward, or something crazy like a coup or something, improbable as that might have been.

Basically, it’s not over until it’s actually over.

[Curt]

37 minutes ago, Weave said:

I understand the "let's see how the courts play out".  But Sabel79 is absolutely correct. 

There was nothing sincere about the effort.  Between the unproven claims in 2016 and the scorned-in-court claims in 2020 AND the simple fact that many of the states that went for Trump used the same machines, same early and mail in voting rules, and same late voting changes in response to a pandemic and not ONE individual that challenged the votes in MI, PA, GA, AZ, etc was interested in challenging the same machines, rules, and changes in the states that went for Trump. How sincere could the quest for justice really be when you are only seeking it on one side of the aisle?

If you couldn't see the insincerity you weren't opening your eyes.  And if you could see it and gave Trump the benefit of the doubt you were complicit.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

The thing is, that I

1) Did not believe a word Trump said, about anything

And also

2) Felt the need to wait and see what happens, because these are batshit crazy times right now.  Trump would steal the office if he could find a way.  I wasn’t 100% sure that he wouldn’t find a way.

Edit:  not confronting you here, just explaining how I felt/feel.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Curt

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

The thing is, that I

1) Did not believe a word Trump said, about anything

And also

2) Felt the need to wait and see what happens, because these are batshit crazy times right now.  Trump would steal the office if he could find a way.  I wasn’t 100% sure that he wouldn’t find a way.

While it was inspired by the content of your post, my post was not directed at you.

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

While it was inspired by the content of your post, my post was not directed at you.

I know, that’s why I added my edit addendum.  Didn’t come in time to beat your trigger finger though.  I wasn’t coming after you either.  Just sharing.

[thewookie1]

As a conservative but, more importantly, an American I am disgusted by what happened yesterday at the Capitol Building. I'm more than disappointed in Trump's response as well.....

 

I really don't know what to say at this point; I disagree fervently with most Democrat stances and feel as if the Republican Party has been co-opted by a wannabe fascist who even upon losing the election refuses to concede. 🤢

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

As a conservative but, more importantly, an American I am disgusted by what happened yesterday at the Capitol Building. I'm more than disappointed in Trump's response as well.....

 

I really don't know what to say at this point; I disagree fervently with most Democrat stances and feel as if the Republican Party has been co-opted by a wannabe fascist who even upon losing the election refuses to concede. 🤢

There are plenty of anti-Trump conservatives out there.  

Sabel said pretty much what I would have in response to Curt, so I'll mostly leave it there:  we justifiably presume that there is no fraud.  We don't make detailed plans in the event we find it, and we don't scream about it or amplify those who do.  We're American, dammit, not Russian or Chinese.

[SwampD]

Watching videos of these morons giving their name and where they are from on Reddit has removed all fear in me that they could actually take over the government. They all have that 1000 yard stare of a cult member and Trump hand them in a frenzy.

But holy hell are they stupid.

Edited January 8, 2021 by SwampD

[SABRES 0311]

12 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Watching videos of these morons giving their name and where they are from on Reddit has removed all fear in me that they could actually take over the government. They all have that 1000 yard stare of a cult member and Trump hand them in a frenzy.

But holy hell are they stupid.

I can’t imagine anyone would’ve been worried this was a viable attempt to seize control.  Maybe in the minds of the ones who did it but for those of us with brain cells it was just stupid.

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Watching videos of these morons giving their name and where they are from on Reddit has removed all fear in me that they could actually take over the government. They all have that 1000 yard stare of a cult member and Trump hand them in a frenzy.

But holy hell are they stupid.

They are talking of returning the 19th. It's a cult. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, SABRES 0311 said:

I can’t imagine anyone would’ve been worried this was a viable attempt to seize control.  Maybe in the minds of the ones who did it but for those of us with brain cells it was just stupid.

They were armed, what if they had taken members of congress hostage or worse? When's the last time you watched on TV as ppl forcibly tried to breach congress during ongoing proceedings? 

Viable doesn't matter. They tried to seize control. 

[SABRES 0311]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

They were armed, what if they had taken members of congress hostage or worse? When's the last time you watched on TV as ppl forcibly tried to breach congress during ongoing proceedings? 

Viable doesn't matter. They tried to seize control. 

If anyone had been taken hostage FBI HRT and DC SWAT would’ve come in.

Even if they had taken control of the building and hostages they would not have been able to attain any goal of changing the outcome of the election.  I’m not trying to downplay the the seriousness of their actions but there was no favorable outcome for the perpetrators to be had.

Their actions were pointless and resulted in nothing good.

[SwampD]

28 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I can’t imagine anyone would’ve been worried this was a viable attempt to seize control.  Maybe in the minds of the ones who did it but for those of us with brain cells it was just stupid.

Not this single act, obviously, but if more “successful”, it may have inspired more acts of violence maybe at a local level.

Edited January 8, 2021 by SwampD