JujuFish Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 32 minutes ago, Hank said: I don't know if Trump has very good ideas on how to improve those things, but I want the opportunity to find out. Where is the logic behind this? I don't know if my mailman has very good ideas on how to improve those things, and I sure don't want to find that out.
SwampD Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Hank said: Swamp, I'm not a republican. Leading up to the election many posters were so............I don't know the right word. Mean spirited? Condescending? Vile? Arrogant? I'm not sure..... It definitely came across, to me, as group think pack mentality. It rubbed me the wrong way. Sometimes I'm an about it. I don't like Trump, but I'm curious. I care about the American economy, jobs and unemployment. I don't know if Trump had very good ideas on how to improve those things, but I want the opportunity to find out. I can agree with that. In a strange coincidence, I would use these exact words to describe our president. If we want to find a source of political discord in this country we have to look no further than him. I genuinely don't know if his ideas are good or not, I'm not an economist, but I do know that Trump is a dick. There's is more to being president than just pushing numbers around on a ledger. Whether intended our not, your post (your first in this thread, I think) came across as chest thumping. You used the word pettiness. Is not wanting to put a potential rapist on the highest court in the land really petty? Having different opinions is not petty, it's just having different opinions. Edited October 6, 2018 by SwampD
Hank Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, SwampD said: I can agree with that. In a strange coincidence, I would use these exact words to describe our president. If we want to find a source of political discord in this country we have to look no further than him. I genuinely don't know if his ideas are good or not, I'm not an economist, but I do know the Trump is a dick. There's is more to being president than just pushing numbers around on a ledger. Whether intended our not, your post (your first in this thread, I think) came across as chest thumping. You used the word pettiness. Is not wanting to put a potential rapist on the highest court in the land really petty? Having different opinions is not petty, it's just having different opinions. You and I see opinions the same way. In my posting history I don't believe I've ever told someone their opinion was wrong. The pettiness I spoke of was irt Democrats obstructing ANY nomination, just like Republicans did. 26 minutes ago, JujuFish said: Where is the logic behind this? I don't know if my mailman has very good ideas on how to improve those things, and I sure don't want to find that out. Your mailman? Really? It's not worthy of a response.
JujuFish Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Hank said: Your mailman? Really? It's not worthy of a response. I find your statement absurd, so I used another absurd statement to show you how I see it. Since you agree that my reply was 'not worth of a response' then you are tacitly agreeing that your original statement was unworthy of being written.
Hank Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 1 minute ago, JujuFish said: I find your statement absurd, so I used another absurd statement to show you how I see it. Since you agree that my reply was 'not worth of a response' then you are tacitly agreeing that your original statement was unworthy of being written. I think your being unintentionally obtuse.
JujuFish Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 Just now, Hank said: I think your being unintentionally obtuse. Hank, I like the fact that you actually discuss these topics. This, however, is getting us nowhere.
Hank Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 I agree. Would you like to actually discuss something or did you just come here to insult me. If it's a discussion you want, please start and I'll respond.
JujuFish Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hank said: I agree. Would you like to actually discuss something or did you just come here to insult me. If it's a discussion you want, please start and I'll respond. I have only ever attacked your statement, not you. You are the one throwing ad hominem insults here. Why do you want an opportunity to see what Trump has planned for various things, when those are the exact things you should have learned before voting for him in the first place?
Eleven Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Hank said: That seems like a position out of ignorance. Even CNN, who lives off of Trump hate (I would say thrive but they are significantly behind Fox news, and behind MSNBC in cable news ratings), sees the new deal as a US win. https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/01/politics/nafta-usmca-differences/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F For God sake man, put your Trump hate aside and at least try to be objective. You're getting overheated--and not just with me, either. Please calm the tone down. The article you link to describes exactly one "win" for the US--dairy--and even there, it neglects that we also opened up our market to Canadian dairy imports. The rest is either a "win" for the entire continent (auto parts) or simple updating (IP). It is repackaged NAFTA and nothing more. As usual, the demagogue's rhetoric far outpaces reality. If you want a truly objective source as to whether the deal is a some sort of "win" for the US, look to the market: The US dollar fell against the Canadian dollar as soon as it was announced.
Hank Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, JujuFish said: I have only ever attacked your statement, not you. You are the one throwing ad hominem insults here. Why do you want an opportunity to see what Trump has planned for various things, when those are the exact things you should have learned before voting for him in the first place? I'm not curious about what his ideas are, I'm curious to see how effective they'll be if he gets the opportunity to implement them.
Hank Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Eleven said: You're getting overheated--and not just with me, either. Please calm the tone down. The article you link to describes exactly one "win" for the US--dairy--and even there, it neglects that we also opened up our market to Canadian dairy imports. The rest is either a "win" for the entire continent (auto parts) or simple updating (IP). It is repackaged NAFTA and nothing more. As usual, the demagogue's rhetoric far outpaces reality. If you want a truly objective source as to whether the deal is a some sort of "win" for the US, look to the market: The US dollar fell against the Canadian dollar as soon as it was announced. That's not the demagogues rhetoric, that's a CNN article written by three women, definitely not Trump's demographic. If you read it and don't agree that it's a win than we'll just agree to disagree, no point in going back and forth about it.
Eleven Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hank said: That's not the demagogues rhetoric, that's a CNN article written by three women, definitely not Trump's demographic. If you read it and don't agree that it's a win than we'll just agree to disagree, no point in going back and forth about it. I was referring to what Trump has said about the deal, not what the article says about it.
Hank Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Eleven said: I was referring to what Trump has said about the deal, not what the article says about it. I get that. But, if CNN of all places calls it a win, I struggle to see how anyone could see it differently. In fact, I can't Google a single article that doesn't call it a win.
Eleven Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hank said: I get that. But, if CNN of all places calls it a win, I struggle to see how anyone could see it differently. In fact, I can't Google a single article that doesn't call it a win. The market saw it differently. So did some Canadian media. I'll try to look for some of the articles tonight. Also, CNN is a lot more centrist than you think (and also somewhat unreliable, but more reliable than Fox: https://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-in-the-media/305361-media-bias-chart.html
Hank Posted October 6, 2018 Report Posted October 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Eleven said: The market saw it differently. So did some Canadian media. I'll try to look for some of the articles tonight. Also, CNN is a lot more centrist than you think (and also somewhat unreliable, but more reliable than Fox: https://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-in-the-media/305361-media-bias-chart.html I admit my ignorance on what the market saw. Anything you could show me would be appreciated. 6 minutes ago, Eleven said: The market saw it differently. So did some Canadian media. I'll try to look for some of the articles tonight. Also, CNN is a lot more centrist than you think (and also somewhat unreliable, but more reliable than Fox: https://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-in-the-media/305361-media-bias-chart.html I admit my ignorance on what the market saw. Anything you could show me would be appreciated.
LGR4GM Posted October 10, 2018 Author Report Posted October 10, 2018 On 10/6/2018 at 12:25 PM, Eleven said: The market saw it differently. So did some Canadian media. I'll try to look for some of the articles tonight. Also, CNN is a lot more centrist than you think (and also somewhat unreliable, but more reliable than Fox: https://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-in-the-media/305361-media-bias-chart.html CNN is a lot more centrist but when Fox is so far to the right, everything looks left from that position.
Hank Posted October 10, 2018 Report Posted October 10, 2018 On 10/6/2018 at 11:25 AM, Eleven said: The market saw it differently. So did some Canadian media. I'll try to look for some of the articles tonight. Also, CNN is a lot more centrist than you think (and also somewhat unreliable, but more reliable than Fox: https://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-in-the-media/305361-media-bias-chart.html I'm still waiting to see how the"market" saw it differently. I can't find a single thing on Google. Even the Washington Post, who bashes Trump daily, says good things about it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/01/winners-losers-usmca-trade-deal/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.39b535873a85 I think it's obvious that your Trump hatred is clouding your judgement.
LGR4GM Posted October 10, 2018 Author Report Posted October 10, 2018 Idk about the markets and the full impact is still unknown but the new NAFTA deal is only minimally different then the old nafta deal. We basically get better access to Canadian dairy markets and a higher percentage of NA car manufacturers have to pay employees 16$ an hour. Most of the rest of NAFTA from my understanding is still in place.
LGR4GM Posted October 10, 2018 Author Report Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) This summary seemed decent https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/10/01/new-trump-trade-deal-leaves-nafta-largely-intact.html Edited October 10, 2018 by LGR4GM
Hank Posted October 10, 2018 Report Posted October 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: This summary seemed decent https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/10/01/new-trump-trade-deal-leaves-nafta-largely-intact.html That is, without a doubt, the most non-flattering take I've read yet. Thank you for sharing. I'm not sure it helps put in perspective overall, but I do appreciate the different view.
Eleven Posted October 11, 2018 Report Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hank said: I'm still waiting to see how the"market" saw it differently. I can't find a single thing on Google. Even the Washington Post, who bashes Trump daily, says good things about it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/01/winners-losers-usmca-trade-deal/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.39b535873a85 I think it's obvious that your Trump hatred is clouding your judgement. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/markets-usmca-1.4845414 https://www.canindia.com/canadian-dollar-soars-following-usmca-trade-deal/ https://www.canadianparvasi.com/2018/10/01/canadian-dollar-soars-to-4-month-high-on-news-of-new-usmca-trade-deal/ https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/loonie-soars-in-the-wake-of-the-new-trade-deal-with-the-u-s-and-mexico Those were hits from Google, FFS. You have to be under a rock or under Trump's Russian pee-women to not be able to find this stuff out. I think it's obvious that your demagogue worship is clouding your judgment. Let's never use those phrases again. Let's don't get personal on here again. Third and last chance for this thread as far as I'm concerned; LTS may feel differently. Edited October 11, 2018 by Eleven
Eleven Posted October 11, 2018 Report Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Idk about the markets and the full impact is still unknown but the new NAFTA deal is only minimally different then the old nafta deal. We basically get better access to Canadian dairy markets and a higher percentage of NA car manufacturers have to pay employees 16$ an hour. Most of the rest of NAFTA from my understanding is still in place. Yep. It's basically the same deal with some IP protections (from TPP, which both Clinton and Trump opposed) added in. It's not substantially different in any way and no one in this thread has been able to demonstrate differently. Edited October 11, 2018 by Eleven
LTS Posted October 11, 2018 Report Posted October 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Eleven said: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/markets-usmca-1.4845414 https://www.canindia.com/canadian-dollar-soars-following-usmca-trade-deal/ https://www.canadianparvasi.com/2018/10/01/canadian-dollar-soars-to-4-month-high-on-news-of-new-usmca-trade-deal/ https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/loonie-soars-in-the-wake-of-the-new-trade-deal-with-the-u-s-and-mexico Those were hits from Google, FFS. You have to be under a rock or under Trump's Russian pee-women to not be able to find this stuff out. I think it's obvious that your demagogue worship is clouding your judgment. Let's never use those phrases again. Let's don't get personal on here again. Third and last chance for this thread as far as I'm concerned; LTS may feel differently. Angry Eleven showing up! I'm confused, my friend. Did you use those phrases because someone else did and then say let's never use them again? I agree with them not being necessary but I feel like this is the first time I have seen the phrase "Russian pee-women" anywhere on this forum. I have not looked at reports on the updated agreement, but since I am traveling to Canada in 3 weeks anything that is improving the Canadian dollar versus the US is only going to make me mad. My hotel room will now cost me more. The conversation might be best served by pointing out what economic pundits are saying and then agree that people will have different opinions. Sadly the long term nature of these things usually mean that no one is really right about what happened (and also really wrong, unless you claimed alien intervention). I look at economic improvement and decline a lot like how a start-up operates. In many cases, the managerial talent necessary to make a start-up successful is not the same talent that it takes to maintain a start-up once it has progressed past start-up stage. I believe the US economy works similarly. Neither side is capable of creating a sustainable growing economy and so they end up trading off and each performing their necessary work on the economic machine to keep it generally growing. Every now and then there's a big problem but that's normal.
LGR4GM Posted October 11, 2018 Author Report Posted October 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Eleven said: Yep. It's basically the same deal with some IP protections (from TPP, which both Clinton and Trump opposed) added in. It's not substantially different in any way and no one in this thread has been able to demonstrate differently. It got a new name to stroke Trump's ego. #SubstantiallyDifferent
Eleven Posted October 11, 2018 Report Posted October 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, LTS said: [1] Angry Eleven showing up! I'm confused, my friend. Did you use those phrases because someone else did and then say let's never use them again? I agree with them not being necessary but I feel like this is the first time I have seen the phrase "Russian pee-women" anywhere on this forum. [2] I have not looked at reports on the updated agreement, but since I am traveling to Canada in 3 weeks anything that is improving the Canadian dollar versus the US is only going to make me mad. My hotel room will now cost me more. The conversation might be best served by pointing out what economic pundits are saying and then agree that people will have different opinions. Sadly the long term nature of these things usually mean that no one is really right about what happened (and also really wrong, unless you claimed alien intervention). I look at economic improvement and decline a lot like how a start-up operates. In many cases, the managerial talent necessary to make a start-up successful is not the same talent that it takes to maintain a start-up once it has progressed past start-up stage. I believe the US economy works similarly. Neither side is capable of creating a sustainable growing economy and so they end up trading off and each performing their necessary work on the economic machine to keep it generally growing. Every now and then there's a big problem but that's normal. 1. Yes. Although "Russian pee-women" was new to the dialogue. 2. Don't worry. It only gained about 1.25%. Because USMCA is basically the same as NAFTA.
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