Donald J Trump, your thoughts on his Presidency

[Eleven]

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

There is a genuine dispute.  Trump started a dispute.  But it doesn’t appear to have any discernible merit.

Which is why it isn't genuine.  I chose the adjective for a reason.  "Genuine dispute" is a legal term.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Eleven

[Curt]

35 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Which is why it isn't genuine.  I chose the adjective for a reason.  "Genuine dispute" is a legal term.

Not familiar with the term “genuine dispute” and its use/connotations within legal circles.  I would guess that most are in the same boat.  I honestly think we are just talking past each other.

If you are thinking of the terms “dispute” and “genuine dispute” with your lawyer hat on, and I’m thinking of them from layman everyday usage, that’s probably at the root of the issue.

[drnkirishone]

The hypocrisy going on is massive. I recall a fair amount of people telling/gloating after 2016 and telling people to move on cause he won. I believe the margin of EC is ending up the same but flipped and the popular vote broke near the same as last time. Yet over 50% of Republicans say the election was stolen.

 

I saw someone talk about the SC shutting down faithless electors. I could be wrong but doesn't that ruling only apply to states that have laws saying the electors have to vote with the popular vote? If so it will only apply to a handful of states

Edited November 19, 2020 by drnkirishone
Added faithless elector part

[LGR4GM]

21 hours ago, LTS said:

Your statement is in direct contradiction to your position.  The very fact that Trump is disputing the election makes it a disputed election.

It's not wrong.  Sorry, but allowing for possibilities regardless of probabilities is not wrong. Think of a door closing.. there's a point where people may consider the door closed before it is, in fact, closed.  At this point, the election is not closed. As such, there are possibilities of things that can happen.

100% this.  And this is why I am thankful the Supreme Court killed the "faithless electorate" over the summer.  That was one of my concerns. That electorates ignored the state mandate and voted for one candidate or another.

How do you define dispute? If he is filing motions then it is in dispute. The outcome could be plainly obvious but that does not change that it's happening.  Someone can file a frivolous lawsuit, just because its outcome is all but assured it doesn't mean the lawsuit does not exist.

Biden has not won the election.  The process used within this country dictates that.  Yes, I am in agreement that Biden will almost assuredly win... but it is not official.

---------------

People are emotional over Trump and they want him to go away. I understand that. I do too. But when we choose to let our emotions overtake the facts we are falling victim to similar issues that plague the current President.  

The facts are: votes are not certified, electorates have not voted and because of that, Biden has not won. Improbable things happen all the time... as Buffalo sports fans we should be very familiar with the concept.  When it's official.. it's official.

Biden has won the election. What you are arguing is that it hasn't been made official which is something NO ONE was bothered by outside the insanely close 2000 election. Your argument is akin to the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup but you saying it isn't official until they are given the cup by Bettman. They still won, it is still over, and the only thing we are waiting on is paperwork. 

I am not letting my emotions overtake anything. Trump won in 2016 and Biden won in 2020. 

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

The hypocrisy going on is massive. I recall a fair amount of people telling/gloating after 2016 and telling people to move on cause he won. I believe the margin of EC is ending up the same but flipped and the popular vote broke near the same as last time. Yet over 50% of Republicans say the election was stolen.

 

I saw someone talk about the SC shutting down faithless electors. I could be wrong but doesn't that ruling only apply to states that have laws saying the electors have to vote with the popular vote? If so it will only apply to a handful of states

Biden's popular vote lead is just over 6million compared to 3mil for Hillary but YES! Exactly this. We were bombarded with "she lost get over it" almost immediately and now when it is clearly the other way it is "well we got to let the process play out, count all legal votes" Legal votes is fancy language for "Trump Votes" btw and isn't about legal anything. A narcissist lost and his sycophants are part of the coping. 

In 2016 when Trump lost the popular vote he said it was 3mil ppl voting illegally with no evidence. His election fraud committee found no evidence. Fast forward to 2020 where he loses and loses big and SHOCKER! the narcissist claims fraud here there and everywhere and now we are sitting in this ***** room debating the word dispute and saying "if Biden is president elect". Joe Biden won the election. There was not massive voter fraud. It is over. In December the electoral college will vote and Joe Biden will win the electoral college because he already won the votes. 

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

I saw someone talk about the SC shutting down faithless electors. I could be wrong but doesn't that ruling only apply to states that have laws saying the electors have to vote with the popular vote? If so it will only apply to a handful of states

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe the Supreme Court ruled against faithless electors. Even though not all states have laws, sounds like the decision by SCOTUS makes it irrelevant as the electors are bound by the State's popular vote outcome. 

Quote

Thirty-two states have some sort of faithless elector law, but only 15 of those remove, penalize or simply cancel the votes of the errant electors. The 15 are Michigan, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Indiana, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Washington, California, New Mexico, South Carolina, Oklahoma and North Carolina. Although Maine has no such law, the secretary of state has said it has determined a faithless elector can be removed.

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/06/885168480/supreme-court-rules-state-faithless-elector-laws-constitutional

[LGR4GM]

This is why I am adamantly against the ***** use of the word "if" and the casting of doubt on this election. This is the sitting President of the United States, asking a State Governor to toss out legal votes. "The state will flip Republican... Get it done!" What in the actual f##k. 

 

[LTS]

21 hours ago, Eleven said:

It is wrong.  It is *absolutely* wrong to foment doubt over the propriety of this election, even under the guise of some possibility that is so remote that it is unthinkable.  It's more likely that Joe Biden will die of natural causes prior to Jan. 20th than it is that the results will be overturned because of some sort of election impropriety, but I doubt that's why 0311 is only "pretty sure" Biden will be inaugurated.

And it is harmful.  Because people who say they are "pretty sure" Trump lost enable his Quixoticity, we are not having the orderly transition that we need.  We're in the middle of a pandemic.  People are going to die because of Trump's willful neglect, and I have no problem assigning some level of responsibility for that to the people who embolden him.

If it is wrong to state fact then you are on equal grounds with the delusional man currently in office.  I don't want to say that about you, but it's accurate.  I am not creating doubt, the election is not certified, the electorate has not voted, and as such the determination is not final. That's reality. I am not controlling reality here.

You are portraying it as sowing seeds of doubt, that's inaccurate. I am portraying it as reality.

I don't enable anything. I could just as easily reverse your position to say that those who are claiming this election is over and Biden is President are enabling a mindset that process does not matter and that when media outlets call an election then its over.  Essentially that's what anyone is doing who claims the results are final and that it is over. Claim it's over now and you might as well have been claiming to stop the vote counting before they were over.

Follow the process, see it out. You can state, with a high degree of certainty, what the outcome would be. But to call out those who would say it's not over until the process is completed is wrong.  100% wrong.  You let your emotions over Trump get the better of you.

 

22 hours ago, SwampD said:

I guess I have a problem with the term disputed. I don’t think it is a disputed election.

I think I would go with obfuscate, instead.

Trump is trying to obfuscate the election. 

If there is a lawsuit disputing any outcome, it's disputed.  I don't care what Trump is trying to do.  He's an idiot.  You can use any word you like, I am only sticking to what is happening with regards to the authenticity of the votes and any lawsuits that might impact what is certified.  Trump can continue to dispute the election results as long as he wants.

19 hours ago, Eleven said:

Nice non-answer.  So you were referring to the fraud hypothesis and can't come up with anything else.  As suspected.  And I did assess you correctly, didn't I?

The reason I'm not calling anyone else part of the problem is that no one else is positing that there's a genuine dispute, except possibly LTS, to whom I replied.

I do not have the current status of all lawsuits that might be disputing validity of results. If there are some in motion or time to file more and there is an intent to do so then I would say there's a dispute.  I don't know what "genuine dispute" is from a legal foundation but I see it as I see it above. If there is a legal dispute in motion or can still be one put in motion then I would not consider things final.

19 hours ago, Eleven said:

This is perfect.  "Disputing" the election is like "disputing" that the Earth is round.

Not even close.

11 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

The hypocrisy going on is massive. I recall a fair amount of people telling/gloating after 2016 and telling people to move on cause he won. I believe the margin of EC is ending up the same but flipped and the popular vote broke near the same as last time. Yet over 50% of Republicans say the election was stolen.

 

I saw someone talk about the SC shutting down faithless electors. I could be wrong but doesn't that ruling only apply to states that have laws saying the electors have to vote with the popular vote? If so it will only apply to a handful of states

I think you are accurate on the faithless electors.  It rules the states are not unconstitutional in their rules. I did not go a further level to see what states have those rules. If it is indeed so few, then there is still considerable risk that electors could go against the popular vote.

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Biden has won the election. What you are arguing is that it hasn't been made official which is something NO ONE was bothered by outside the insanely close 2000 election. Your argument is akin to the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup but you saying it isn't official until they are given the cup by Bettman. They still won, it is still over, and the only thing we are waiting on is paperwork. 

I am not letting my emotions overtake anything. Trump won in 2016 and Biden won in 2020. 

No, my argument is not akin to the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup.  But let me throw a sports analogy at you. There is an athlete who wins a Gold medal. They are handed the gold medal. They are the gold medalist... then a doping sample tests positive 3 months later and they are no longer the gold medalist.

There is a NASCAR driver who wins a race. He has the championship trophy in his hands. He sprays champagne everywhere.  Then officials take apart his car and find it out of compliance. The NASCAR driver no longer is the champion, despite having held the trophy.

The results are final when the process that is required to make them final is complete.  You don't have to like it. You can claim anything you want, but it's not accurate.

I'm not bothered by the fact that it's not official, other than people telling others they are wrong for saying it's not official.  Biden will be declared the winner of the election. He will be President.  I am certain of that.  But the election is not over.  It's just not.  Despite your claims or anyone else's claims. It's not over.  You can argue with me, but you are wrong and that is indisputable.

To me arguing the election is over is like arguing that Joe Biden is President when he has not yet taken the Oath of Office.  Or do people think we should skip that part?

Edited November 19, 2020 by LTS

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

If it is wrong to state fact then you are on equal grounds with the delusional man currently in office.  I don't want to say that about you, but it's accurate.  I am not creating doubt, the election is not certified, the electorate has not voted, and as such the determination is not final. That's reality. I am not controlling reality here.

You are portraying it as sowing seeds of doubt, that's inaccurate. I am portraying it as reality.

I don't enable anything. I could just as easily reverse your position to say that those who are claiming this election is over and Biden is President are enabling a mindset that process does not matter and that when media outlets call an election then its over.  Essentially that's what anyone is doing who claims the results are final and that it is over. Claim it's over now and you might as well have been claiming to stop the vote counting before they were over.

Follow the process, see it out. You can state, with a high degree of certainty, what the outcome would be. But to call out those who would say it's not over until the process is completed is wrong.  100% wrong.  You let your emotions over Trump get the better of you.

 

If there is a lawsuit disputing any outcome, it's disputed.  I don't care what Trump is trying to do.  He's an idiot.  You can use any word you like, I am only sticking to what is happening with regards to the authenticity of the votes and any lawsuits that might impact what is certified.  Trump can continue to dispute the election results as long as he wants.

I do not have the current status of all lawsuits that might be disputing validity of results. If there are some in motion or time to file more and there is an intent to do so then I would say there's a dispute.  I don't know what "genuine dispute" is from a legal foundation but I see it as I see it above. If there is a legal dispute in motion or can still be one put in motion then I would not consider things final.

Not even close.

I think you are accurate on the faithless electors.  It rules the states are not unconstitutional in their rules. I did not go a further level to see what states have those rules. If it is indeed so few, then there is still considerable risk that electors could go against the popular vote.

No, my argument is not akin to the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup.  But let me throw a sports analogy at you. There is an athlete who wins a Gold medal. They are handed the gold medal. They are the gold medalist... then a doping sample tests positive 3 months later and they are no longer the gold medalist.

There is a NASCAR driver who wins a race. He has the championship trophy in his hands. He sprays champagne everywhere.  Then officials take apart his car and find it out of compliance. The NASCAR driver no longer is the champion, despite having held the trophy.

The results are final when the process that is required to make them final is complete.  You don't have to like it. You can claim anything you want, but it's not accurate.

I'm not bothered by the fact that it's not official, other than people telling others they are wrong for saying it's not official.  Biden will be declared the winner of the election. He will be President.  I am certain of that.  But the election is not over.  It's just not.  Despite your claims or anyone else's claims. It's not over.  You can argue with me, but you are wrong and that is indisputable.

To me arguing the election is over is like arguing that Joe Biden is President when he has not yet taken the Oath of Office.  Or do people think we should skip that part?

If it were any other human besides Trump, it would be over.

 

[Eleven]

38 minutes ago, LTS said:

If it is wrong to state fact then you are on equal grounds with the delusional man currently in office.  I don't want to say that about you, but it's accurate.  I am not creating doubt, the election is not certified, the electorate has not voted, and as such the determination is not final. That's reality. I am not controlling reality here.

You are portraying it as sowing seeds of doubt, that's inaccurate. I am portraying it as reality.

I don't enable anything. I could just as easily reverse your position to say that those who are claiming this election is over and Biden is President are enabling a mindset that process does not matter and that when media outlets call an election then its over.  Essentially that's what anyone is doing who claims the results are final and that it is over. Claim it's over now and you might as well have been claiming to stop the vote counting before they were over.

Follow the process, see it out. You can state, with a high degree of certainty, what the outcome would be. But to call out those who would say it's not over until the process is completed is wrong.  100% wrong.  You let your emotions over Trump get the better of you.

 

If there is a lawsuit disputing any outcome, it's disputed.  I don't care what Trump is trying to do.  He's an idiot.  You can use any word you like, I am only sticking to what is happening with regards to the authenticity of the votes and any lawsuits that might impact what is certified.  Trump can continue to dispute the election results as long as he wants.

I do not have the current status of all lawsuits that might be disputing validity of results. If there are some in motion or time to file more and there is an intent to do so then I would say there's a dispute.  I don't know what "genuine dispute" is from a legal foundation but I see it as I see it above. If there is a legal dispute in motion or can still be one put in motion then I would not consider things final.

Not even close.

I think you are accurate on the faithless electors.  It rules the states are not unconstitutional in their rules. I did not go a further level to see what states have those rules. If it is indeed so few, then there is still considerable risk that electors could go against the popular vote.

No, my argument is not akin to the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup.  But let me throw a sports analogy at you. There is an athlete who wins a Gold medal. They are handed the gold medal. They are the gold medalist... then a doping sample tests positive 3 months later and they are no longer the gold medalist.

There is a NASCAR driver who wins a race. He has the championship trophy in his hands. He sprays champagne everywhere.  Then officials take apart his car and find it out of compliance. The NASCAR driver no longer is the champion, despite having held the trophy.

The results are final when the process that is required to make them final is complete.  You don't have to like it. You can claim anything you want, but it's not accurate.

I'm not bothered by the fact that it's not official, other than people telling others they are wrong for saying it's not official.  Biden will be declared the winner of the election. He will be President.  I am certain of that.  But the election is not over.  It's just not.  Despite your claims or anyone else's claims. It's not over.  You can argue with me, but you are wrong and that is indisputable.

To me arguing the election is over is like arguing that Joe Biden is President when he has not yet taken the Oath of Office.  Or do people think we should skip that part?

Your paragraphs above evolve from uncertainty to certainty.  The point is not whether Biden has been inaugurated yet, or whether the Electoral College has "met" and cast its votes.  The point is whether there is a genuine dispute as to the validity of the election, and there absolutely is not.  People who are sowing doubt over the validity of the election are harming America.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Eleven

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Biden's popular vote lead is just over 6million compared to 3mil for Hillary but YES! Exactly this. We were bombarded with "she lost get over it" almost immediately and now when it is clearly the other way it is "well we got to let the process play out, count all legal votes" Legal votes is fancy language for "Trump Votes" btw and isn't about legal anything. A narcissist lost and his sycophants are part of the coping. 

In 2016 when Trump lost the popular vote he said it was 3mil ppl voting illegally with no evidence. His election fraud committee found no evidence. Fast forward to 2020 where he loses and loses big and SHOCKER! the narcissist claims fraud here there and everywhere and now we are sitting in this ***** room debating the word dispute and saying "if Biden is president elect". Joe Biden won the election. There was not massive voter fraud. It is over. In December the electoral college will vote and Joe Biden will win the electoral college because he already won the votes. 

The difference here is that Clinton conceded after if became clear that she had lost, so at that point it was over.  She gave up.

Trump refuses to do so.    He is making challenges and protests, frivolous as they may be.  He has made it very clear that he is not giving up.  That’s why the word “if” comes into play, because Trump has not conceded.  He is still fighting.

Because both sides are still saying that they won, that’s why we need to let the process play out.

This is not to say that I think Trump has any real chance at remaining in office.  I don’t think he does.  But he is going to keep trying ***** until they pry it away from him with a crowbar.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Curt

[LTS]

32 minutes ago, SwampD said:

If it were any other human besides Trump, it would be over.

 

Not in my mind. The President becomes the President when the inauguration occurs. The election results become final when the electorate votes and all counts are certified. The apparent winner would be Biden, and in most Presidential races the loser has conceded by now which certainly leads to less discussion on the topic. In this case, it has not happened.

I would love for Trump to concede and get this over with.

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Your paragraphs above evolve from uncertainty to certainty.  The point is not whether Biden has been inaugurated yet, or whether the Electoral College has "met" and cast its votes.  The point is whether there is a genuine dispute as to the validity of the election, and there absolutely is not.  People who are sowing doubt over the validity of the election are harming America.

No.  Look. I don't know what else to say other than to post this:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/11/16/trump-election-lawsuits-republicans-battleground-states-vote-count/6177538002/

How can you look at that and where things sit and say there is not a dispute?

If you want to keep saying "genuine dispute" can you please define it so we can all work from the same definition?

As for your last sentence, people have the right to question the validity. The lawsuits are being ruled upon by our judicial system. I would think it far more harmful to America to argue that people should not have those rights as you are doing.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

If it is wrong to state fact then you are on equal grounds with the delusional man currently in office.  I don't want to say that about you, but it's accurate.  I am not creating doubt, the election is not certified, the electorate has not voted, and as such the determination is not final. That's reality. I am not controlling reality here.

You are portraying it as sowing seeds of doubt, that's inaccurate. I am portraying it as reality.

I don't enable anything. I could just as easily reverse your position to say that those who are claiming this election is over and Biden is President are enabling a mindset that process does not matter and that when media outlets call an election then its over.  Essentially that's what anyone is doing who claims the results are final and that it is over. Claim it's over now and you might as well have been claiming to stop the vote counting before they were over.

Follow the process, see it out. You can state, with a high degree of certainty, what the outcome would be. But to call out those who would say it's not over until the process is completed is wrong.  100% wrong.  You let your emotions over Trump get the better of you.

 

If there is a lawsuit disputing any outcome, it's disputed.  I don't care what Trump is trying to do.  He's an idiot.  You can use any word you like, I am only sticking to what is happening with regards to the authenticity of the votes and any lawsuits that might impact what is certified.  Trump can continue to dispute the election results as long as he wants.

I do not have the current status of all lawsuits that might be disputing validity of results. If there are some in motion or time to file more and there is an intent to do so then I would say there's a dispute.  I don't know what "genuine dispute" is from a legal foundation but I see it as I see it above. If there is a legal dispute in motion or can still be one put in motion then I would not consider things final.

Not even close.

I think you are accurate on the faithless electors.  It rules the states are not unconstitutional in their rules. I did not go a further level to see what states have those rules. If it is indeed so few, then there is still considerable risk that electors could go against the popular vote.

No, my argument is not akin to the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup.  But let me throw a sports analogy at you. There is an athlete who wins a Gold medal. They are handed the gold medal. They are the gold medalist... then a doping sample tests positive 3 months later and they are no longer the gold medalist.

There is a NASCAR driver who wins a race. He has the championship trophy in his hands. He sprays champagne everywhere.  Then officials take apart his car and find it out of compliance. The NASCAR driver no longer is the champion, despite having held the trophy.

The results are final when the process that is required to make them final is complete.  You don't have to like it. You can claim anything you want, but it's not accurate.

I'm not bothered by the fact that it's not official, other than people telling others they are wrong for saying it's not official.  Biden will be declared the winner of the election. He will be President.  I am certain of that.  But the election is not over.  It's just not.  Despite your claims or anyone else's claims. It's not over.  You can argue with me, but you are wrong and that is indisputable.

To me arguing the election is over is like arguing that Joe Biden is President when he has not yet taken the Oath of Office.  Or do people think we should skip that part?

It is disputable because we are clearly talking about different things. You're arguing that the election is on-going because one side hasn't conceded and the full process has not played out. I am arguing that the election is over because ppl already voted and everything that is about to come if a formality. You are implying that the formality part I am either willing to or openly dismissing and I am not. What I am saying is that Joe Biden won the election. What I am not saying is that the final steps to him being president are irrelevant. 

22 minutes ago, LTS said:

Not in my mind. The President becomes the President when the inauguration occurs. The election results become final when the electorate votes and all counts are certified. The apparent winner would be Biden, and in most Presidential races the loser has conceded by now which certainly leads to less discussion on the topic. In this case, it has not happened.

I would love for Trump to concede and get this over with.

No.  Look. I don't know what else to say other than to post this:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/11/16/trump-election-lawsuits-republicans-battleground-states-vote-count/6177538002/

How can you look at that and where things sit and say there is not a dispute?

If you want to keep saying "genuine dispute" can you please define it so we can all work from the same definition?

As for your last sentence, people have the right to question the validity. The lawsuits are being ruled upon by our judicial system. I would think it far more harmful to America to argue that people should not have those rights as you are doing.

If the lawsuits were in good faith sure but they aren't and there is mountains of evidence that they are only being done to cast doubt. That is harmful to the Republic. 

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, LTS said:

Not in my mind. The President becomes the President when the inauguration occurs. The election results become final when the electorate votes and all counts are certified.

Maybe I am misremembering but technically the election result isn’t official until the Senate confirms the results of the Electoral College vote, no?

[Eleven]

33 minutes ago, LTS said:

Not in my mind. The President becomes the President when the inauguration occurs. The election results become final when the electorate votes and all counts are certified. The apparent winner would be Biden, and in most Presidential races the loser has conceded by now which certainly leads to less discussion on the topic. In this case, it has not happened.

I would love for Trump to concede and get this over with.

No.  Look. I don't know what else to say other than to post this:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/11/16/trump-election-lawsuits-republicans-battleground-states-vote-count/6177538002/

How can you look at that and where things sit and say there is not a dispute?

If you want to keep saying "genuine dispute" can you please define it so we can all work from the same definition?

As for your last sentence, people have the right to question the validity. The lawsuits are being ruled upon by our judicial system. I would think it far more harmful to America to argue that people should not have those rights as you are doing.

http://ksd.uscourts.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Summary-Judgment-Guidelines.pdf

Also, the link you provided demonstrates that none of this is genuine.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Eleven

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

http://ksd.uscourts.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Summary-Judgment-Guidelines.pdf

Also, the link you provided demonstrates that none of this is genuine.

So, if the courts decide that Trumps lawsuits are not genuine, then that will be the results of the process.  But you or I saying that they aren’t genuine does not make it so.  The disputes are ongoing until they are ruled upon.

[Eleven]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

So, if the courts decide that Trumps lawsuits are not genuine, then that will be the results of the process.  But you or I saying that they aren’t genuine does not make it so.  The disputes are ongoing until they are ruled upon.

Most of them have been ruled upon.  (See LTS's link.)  The ones that haven't, it's just a matter of time.  That doesn't make them genuine, it just means that it hasn't happened yet.  Just like the Earth always was round, but it took time to establish it as fact.

I will stand by my assertion that people who are fomenting division by claiming the election was illegitimate are harming the country.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Eleven

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Most of them have been ruled upon.  (See LTS's link.)  The ones that haven't, it's just a matter of time.  That doesn't make them genuine, it just means that it hasn't happened yet.  Just like the Earth always was round, but it took time to establish it as fact.

I will stand by my assertion that people who are fomenting division by claiming the election was illegitimate are harming the country.

Ok, fair enough.

To the bolded, absolutely.  And I don’t think anyone here is doing that.

[LGR4GM]

The Rudy Giuliani press conference that is going on right now... is f###ing insane. It is complete dystopian propaganda that is literally on the level of the Nazis. There are so many lies and the demonizing going on is some of the most unamerican and treasonous. I mean treason here, I am not using that word loosely but these people are basically attempting a a form of coup. They claim that Trump not only won, but won by a landslide and that Venezuela created the voting systems we used and that because so many voted for Trump it "broke the algorithm" used to flip votes in the computer. They at one point listed a bunch of communist countries madlib style as all involved in the voting scheme and then linked them to Democrats.  I have literally never heard such an insane conspiracy theory being shoved into the mainstream. 

They are openly saying they are going to overturn the votes. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

This is insane. There is so much lying and distortion going on it is literally nuts. Claims Trump won Pennsylvania by 300k votes and won Michigan by 50k votes. What a crazy insane display including this statement "iron curtain of censorship" which was leveled at ALL news outlets. 

[LGR4GM]

Lol this is just literal insanity. "this was not a plan of 10 or 12 Democrat bosses but a large scale plan". 

Calls it a "national conspiracy" and then insults Joe Biden as being unaware of. Says reporters don't understand because they are asking for evidence and that will be done in court. 

"Follow the money, follow the political party. You want me to take the secretary of state of Michigan seriously?"  

... then claims Germany counted the votes (they didn't) and everyone should be fired in Michigan. 

Let me just sum up what Rudy said with a video:

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by LGR4GM

[SwampD]

They want to turn this country into Soviet Russia.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

They want to turn this country into Soviet Russia.

Best part was fact checking his Dominion Systems voting claim in real time and it was all BS from Venezuela to Germany to Soros it was all straight up lies. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Ok, fair enough.

To the bolded, absolutely.  And I don’t think anyone here is doing that.

I'm "pretty sure" someone is.

[SABRES 0311]

Just now, Eleven said:

I'm "pretty sure" someone is.

Show me where and how.