Donald J Trump, your thoughts on his Presidency

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

And what exactly were these people saying? What did you do to educate them? If nothing, how are your posts any different than their words? 

I’d like to point out that while I detest your inflammatory biased rhetoric I respect your freedom to say it. That said I see no difference in your perspective compared to any other person/group, left or right, who perpetuates division and bias. Other than claimed personal interactions you still have not provided evidence that most 2A types (your words) support tyranny or how. 

 

 

The silence from 2A groups over this matter is truly deafening.  They may not be actively supporting what is going on in Portland, but they certainly are standing by and watching it unfold without so much as a whimper.  Again, given the oft stated position that the relevance of 2A is to fight tyranny, both foreign and domestic, the silence now tells me that they are some combination of, blind to the tyranny that is now occurring, supportive of the tyranny, bluffing and have no intention of using their guns against domestic tyranny, or... well you get the idea.

I find it rather telling that we had armed militia members overtaking a state capital building over a pandemic lockdown (and those armed militia members recieved vocal, public support from other 2A groups), but yet when real acts of tyranny take place the armed militia types are staying quiet and staying home.  It's not a stretch at all to read political leanings into this.  The 2A types were loudly and publicly vocal when a family of ranchers were being kicked off land that they didn't own, and didn't have a right to be using, but they aren't saying a word when people are being snatched off the street and whisked away in unmarked vans by unmarked Federal government officials.  It's pretty obvious that the reason for the difference in reaction is due squarely to the politics involved with the people on the recieving end of the government actions, and the party of the President ordering those actions. 

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

The silence from 2A groups over this matter is truly deafening.  They may not be actively supporting what is going on in Portland, but they certainly are standing by and watching it unfold without so much as a whimper.  Again, given the oft stated position that the relevance of 2A is to fight tyranny, both foreign and domestic, the silence now tells me that they are some combination of, blind to the tyranny that is now occurring, supportive of the tyranny, bluffing and have no intention of using their guns against domestic tyranny, or... well you get the idea.

I find it rather telling that we had armed militia members overtaking a state capital building over a pandemic lockdown (and those armed militia members recieved vocal, public support from other 2A groups), but yet when real acts of tyranny take place the armed militia types are staying quiet and staying home.  It's not a stretch at all to read political leanings into this.  The 2A types were loudly and publicly vocal when a family of ranchers were being kicked off land that they didn't own, and didn't have a right to be using, but they aren't saying a word when people are being snatched off the street and whisked away in unmarked vans by unmarked Federal government officials.  It's pretty obvious that the reason for the difference in reaction is due squarely to the politics involved with the people on the recieving end of the government actions, and the party of the President ordering those actions. 

He said it way better than I could have.

And I’m pretty sure that Weave and I are both pretty strong believers in the 2nd amendment. Weave, correct me if spoke out of turn.

[SABRES 0311]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

The silence from 2A groups over this matter is truly deafening.  They may not be actively supporting what is going on in Portland, but they certainly are standing by and watching it unfold without so much as a whimper.  Again, given the oft stated position that the relevance of 2A is to fight tyranny, both foreign and domestic, the silence now tells me that they are some combination of, blind to the tyranny that is now occurring, supportive of the tyranny, bluffing and have no intention of using their guns against domestic tyranny, or... well you get the idea.

I find it rather telling that we had armed militia members overtaking a state capital building over a pandemic lockdown (and those armed militia members recieved vocal, public support from other 2A groups), but yet when real acts of tyranny take place the armed militia types are staying quiet and staying home.  It's not a stretch at all to read political leanings into this.  The 2A types were loudly and publicly vocal when a family of ranchers were being kicked off land that they didn't own, and didn't have a right to be using, but they aren't saying a word when people are being snatched off the street and whisked away in unmarked vans by unmarked Federal government officials.  It's pretty obvious that the reason for the difference in reaction is due squarely to the politics involved with the people on the recieving end of the government actions, and the party of the President ordering those actions. 

I will offer another point of view. For a long time now gun owners have been told they don’t need their weapons of war. Now people are up in arms about government tyranny. Suppose these people come to the rescue of protesters. The next time some idiot shoots up a school they will be told they don’t need the same weapons. So what should they do? Swoop in to be the hero today only to be labeled a part of the problem tomorrow?

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I will offer another point of view. For a long time now gun owners have been told they don’t need their weapons of war. Now people are up in arms about government tyranny. Suppose these people come to the rescue of protesters. The next time some idiot shoots up a school they will be told they don’t need the same weapons. So what should they do? Swoop in to be the hero today only to be labeled a part of the problem tomorrow?

Or they could use that threat to show the other side the validity of their argument.  And, you know, do the right thing for democracy in the process.

There is no doubt in my mind that 2A groups are supportive of what is being done here.  The venom and hate that has been spewed towards the left makes it pretty evident to me what is going on here. 

11 minutes ago, SwampD said:

He said it way better than I could have.

And I’m pretty sure that Weave and I are both pretty strong believers in the 2nd amendment. Weave, correct me if spoke out of turn.

Nope, you have it right.  I support limitations on some things, but I'm a gun guy that is actively involved in the sport.  I hear and talk to the folks at the ranges, clubs, and meets.  I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of the mindset.

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I will offer another point of view. For a long time now gun owners have been told they don’t need their weapons of war. Now people are up in arms about government tyranny. Suppose these people come to the rescue of protesters. The next time some idiot shoots up a school they will be told they don’t need the same weapons. So what should they do? Swoop in to be the hero today only to be labeled a part of the problem tomorrow?

How about for a start, they just don’t vote for Trump? He has taken a dump on The Constitution more than any president in recent history. These guys would still vote for him tomorrow.

[SABRES 0311]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

Or they could use that threat to show the other side the validity of their argument.  And, you know, do the right thing for democracy in the process.

There is no doubt in my mind that 2A groups are supportive of what is being done here.  The venom and hate that has been spewed towards the left makes it pretty evident to me what is going on here. 

6 minutes ago, SwampD said:

How about for a start, they just don’t vote for Trump? He has taken a dump on The Constitution more than any president in recent history. These guys would still vote for him tomorrow.

 

And it comes full circle. The poor left is the victim of all this hate which is supported by the Trump voter. Meanwhile the left labels anyone who doesn’t get on board as supporters of racism and tyranny. This entire discussion is an example of what the left is. Use blanket statements to attack an entire group of people while accusing that group of being bias, racist, fascist or whatever. Oh but please evil, white, gun owning Trump voters. Save us from this tyranny. Until you have outlived your usefulness then we will tell you how wrong you are for owning those big scary guns. 

You say inaction is evidence enough that these people support tyranny. Again, what action have you taken? If you have not taken the same actions you accuse these people of not taking then by your logic you support tyranny as well.

I’ll ask again. What have these people said that you claim to interact with? What have you done to educate them, you know, to do the right thing for democracy? 

[SwampD]

17 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

And it comes full circle. The poor left is the victim of all this hate which is supported by the Trump voter. Meanwhile the left labels anyone who doesn’t get on board as supporters of racism and tyranny. This entire discussion is an example of what the left is. Use blanket statements to attack an entire group of people while accusing that group of being bias, racist, fascist or whatever. Oh but please evil, white, gun owning Trump voters. Save us from this tyranny. Until you have outlived your usefulness then we will tell you how wrong you are for owning those big scary guns. 

You say inaction is evidence enough that these people support tyranny. Again, what action have you taken? If you have not taken the same actions you accuse these people of not taking then by your logic you support tyranny as well.

I’ll ask again. What have these people said that you claim to interact with? What have you done to educate them, you know, to do the right thing for democracy? 

I really don’t know what you are asking from me?

I think that moving forward, whenever someone says “the left” or “the right” we should all just assume that they mean “the far left” and “the far right.”

I’m in the middle, not the left. I don’t care what the [far] left says as just as much as I don’t caRe what the [far] right says.

I’m a white, gun owning, non Trump voter. The thought of him using the armed forces to clear a path so he can take a picture in front of a church that didn’t even give him permission, and his goon squads kidnapping people off the streets scares the sh!t out of me more than anything any other president has done in my lifetime.

The people who have claimed to care the most about these type of injustices are silent. And they would vote for Trump tomorrow.

That scares me, too.

Thats all I’m saying.

Edited July 19, 2020 by SwampD

[SABRES 0311]

7 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I really don’t know what you are asking from me?

I think that moving forward, whenever someone says “the left” or “the right” we should all just assume that they mean “the far left” and “the far right.”

I’m in the middle, not the left. I don’t care what the [far] left says as just as much as I don’t caRe what the [far] right says.

I’m a white, gun owning, non Trump voter. The though of him using the armed forces to clear a path so he can take a picture in front of a church that didn’t even give him permission, and his goon squads kidnapping people off the streets scares the sh!t out of me more than anything any other president has done in my lifetime.

The people who have claimed to care the most about this type of injustice are silent. And they would vote for Trump tomorrow.

That scares me, too.

Thats all I’m saying.

And all I’m saying is don’t accuse people you haven’t even met of supporting tyranny just because they haven’t rushed in guns blazing. There’s an equally opposite reaction that could’ve happened as well.

Edited July 19, 2020 by SABRES 0311

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

And it comes full circle. The poor left is the victim of all this hate which is supported by the Trump voter. Meanwhile the left labels anyone who doesn’t get on board as supporters of racism and tyranny. This entire discussion is an example of what the left is. Use blanket statements to attack an entire group of people while accusing that group of being bias, racist, fascist or whatever. Oh but please evil, white, gun owning Trump voters. Save us from this tyranny. Until you have outlived your usefulness then we will tell you how wrong you are for owning those big scary guns. 

You say inaction is evidence enough that these people support tyranny. Again, what action have you taken? If you have not taken the same actions you accuse these people of not taking then by your logic you support tyranny as well.

I’ll ask again. What have these people said that you claim to interact with? What have you done to educate them, you know, to do the right thing for democracy? 

Speaking of blanket statements.....

What action have I taken?  I'm at least speaking out against it.  I'm making my displeasure known.  My voice as a gun owner is being heard.  I want the country to see that I won't stand for it.  It's doing a helluva lot more than you are in defense of tyranny.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Weave

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

And all I’m saying is don’t accuse people you haven’t even met of supporting tyranny just because they haven’t rushed in guns blazing. There’s an equally opposite reaction that could’ve happened as well.

Luckily, I never said that, so, I agree with you.

 

They could start by simply condemning his actions. They won’t because they most likely agree with his actions.

Edited July 19, 2020 by SwampD

[Weave]

My last post came off as needlessly harsh.  I'm not sure of the wording to get my point across and not sound needlessly harsh.  I'm doing what I am actually able to do.  If I were in a position to do more, would I?  I don't know.  I'm not a violent man.  I'm not cut for it.  But I do what I can when I can.

[SABRES 0311]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

Speaking of blanket statements.....

What action have I taken?  I'm at least speaking out against it.  I'm making my displeasure known.  My voice as a gun owner is being heard.  I want the country to see that I won't stand for it.  It's doing a helluva lot more than you are in defense of tyranny.

Seems to be acceptable in this thread.

I don’t agree with unidentifiable agents scooping people up. Now we are even. 

You are accusing a group of fellow Americans of support tyranny. Therefore you are painting this group as an enemy of democracy. Like I said, you’re not the first person in history do that.

6 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Luckily, I never said that, so, I agree with you.

 

They could start by simply condemning his actions. They won’t because they most likely agree with his actions.

Yes they could and should.

[Weave]

23 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Seems to be acceptable in this thread.

I don’t agree with unidentifiable agents scooping people up. Now we are even. 

You are accusing a group of fellow Americans of support tyranny. Therefore you are painting this group as an enemy of democracy. Like I said, you’re not the first person in history do that.

Yes they could and should.

I'm glad we were able to drag that out of you.

And yes I am very aware that I am painting them as enemies of democracy.  I would expect you to do the same to me if I kept my mouth shut when some agency dumped you in a rented van for voicing your displeasure over taxes, religious freedom, firearms, or whatever some other group might not want you to protest about, especially if I've spent considerable effort trying to tell everyone that my viewpoint was predicated upon defense against the very tyranny that is happening,

Edited July 19, 2020 by Weave

[SABRES 0311]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

I'm glad we were able to drag that out of you.

And yes I am very aware that I am painting them as enemies of democracy.  I would expect you to do the same to me if I kept my mouth shut when some agency dumped you in a rented van for voicing your displeasure over taxes, religious freedom, firearms, or whatever some other group might not want you to protest about, especially if I've spent considerable effort trying to tell everyone that my viewpoint was predicated upon defense against the very tyranny that is happening,

Well you’ve made it pretty clear you view fellow Americans as your enemy. Have fun with that. Hope it works out for ya. 

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Well you’ve made it pretty clear you view fellow Americans as your enemy. Have fun with that. Hope it works out for ya. 

No.  I would do the same for them that I am doing now when they are being treated to unconstitutional behavior. Nice try though.

[SABRES 0311]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

No.  I would do the same for them that I am doing now when they are being treated to unconstitutional behavior. Nice try though.

Same to you. 

[Ogre]

4 hours ago, SwampD said:

Go out to the country on a drive, say, on my avatar. Listen to the conversations around the swimming hole when they think the liberal isn’t listening. I have all the evidence I need to believe what I believe.

You should see what’s written inside the job site sh!thouse. Directed specifically at the certain minorities that are present on site. 
 

I write my name and trade in there and denounce their BS. 
 

Come on over and say that sh!t to the Ironworkers you ***** coward.

[Weave]

At least Rand Paul has woken from his slumber.

Now call out Trump directly you coward.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

At least Rand Paul has woken from his slumber.

Now call out Trump directly you coward.

 

I think that is a bridge too far

[darksabre]

Just wondering aloud a bit here, but I have to imagine GOP leadership would have preferred a quiet election year rather than the absolute chaos that is going on right now.

They were getting everything they wanted. They were getting their federal court justices. They are getting their Supreme Court. They might even get another SCOTUS appointment if RBG doesn't hang on.

They might have even managed a relatively easy win in the fall.

Trump's continued mishandling of COVID and the continued assault on American citizens by federal law enforcement is not going to be easy for someone as dumb as him to handle in debates in the fall. Joe Biden isn't a particularly compelling candidate, and in fact I think he sucks, but Trump is giving out political ammunition that even Sleepy Joe can deploy and come off looking patriotic while not going too far left.

The best thing Trump could have done was tread water and keep liberals and the left focused on fighting each other. Six months ago simply opposing Trump as a platform was not going to be enough and it was all the Democrats had. Now it's probably the only thing they actually need.

[LGR4GM]

Yup, at this point Trump's antics coupled with GOP dithering and complacency about him might result in the Senate going Blue. 

[Curt]

So, that man in the White House has finally started to publicly show himself wearing a mask and encourage the general public to wear masks.  This after consistently downplaying the severity of the pandemic and repeatedly emphasizing that he would not be wearing one or requesting that the public wear one.

What are everyones’ thoughts on this development?  Why the change of strategy now?  

[darksabre]

16 minutes ago, Curt said:

So, that man in the White House has finally started to publicly show himself wearing a mask and encourage the general public to wear masks.  This after consistently downplaying the severity of the pandemic and repeatedly emphasizing that he would not be wearing one or requesting that the public wear one.

What are everyones’ thoughts on this development?  Why the change of strategy now?  

I'm going to assume it's because COVID didn't simply "go away on its own" and it's starting to hurt some of the rich people who tell him what to do.

The only thing that Trump and his peers hate more than regular people is losing money.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I'm going to assume it's because COVID didn't simply "go away on its own" and it's starting to hurt some of the rich people who tell him what to do.

The only thing that Trump and his peers hate more than regular people is losing money.

1) I don’t think being wrong is a reason for the man in the White House to change his stance.  I feel like it must be a politically motivated strategy change.  I don’t know if it’s just that the poles have gotten so bad, or if it’s something else too.

2) Donald Trump has no peers, obviously.

[darksabre]

35 minutes ago, Curt said:

1) I don’t think being wrong is a reason for the man in the White House to change his stance.  I feel like it must be a politically motivated strategy change.  I don’t know if it’s just that the poles have gotten so bad, or if it’s something else too.

2) Donald Trump has no peers, obviously.

Oh, I don't think he thinks he was wrong. It's definitely political. There must be internal polling that is showing him getting crushed in swing states or something. Something has him spooked that he might get called a loser by someone on Fox. 

And you're right of course. He's not even rich.