Donald J Trump, your thoughts on his Presidency

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I can’t imagine believing what other people say without knowing where it’s coming from but if it works for you then so be it. 

There has been plenty of evidence to show it. If you don’t want to see it, that’s your choice and I have no problem with it.

[SABRES 0311]

16 minutes ago, SwampD said:

There has been plenty of evidence to show it. If you don’t want to see it, that’s your choice and I have no problem with it.

I have seen the information presented to include the findings in the Mueller Report which did not conclude collusion. However information which led to the investigation specifically how it was obtained is questionable. Furthermore the investigation involved personalities of questionable character. Then Mueller publicly states he doesn’t want to testify about the investigation or its findings which makes no sense to me if the investigation was done in accordance with policies you will not find on Google. 

[SwampD]

7 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I have seen the information presented to include the findings in the Mueller Report which did not conclude collusion. However information which led to the investigation specifically how it was obtained is questionable. Furthermore the investigation involved personalities of questionable character. Then Mueller publicly states he doesn’t want to testify about the investigation or its findings which makes no sense to me if the investigation was done in accordance with policies you will not find on Google. 

I should also state that my standard of proof is not has high as a court of law.

[SABRES 0311]

3 hours ago, SwampD said:

I should also state that my standard of proof is not has high as a court of law.

 I’m not saying a person shouldn’t have their opinion. I’d expect when someone enters a conversation it’s for actual contribution. That contribution being a thought and background information. 

[SABRES 0311]

Space launch on Wednesday! Feels like forever since I watched one. 

·

Presiden@realDonaldTrump will travel to Central Florida to watch as @NASA and @SpaceX launch astronauts from American soil for the first time in nearly a decade!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/science/spacex-nasa-launch.amp.html

[LGR4GM]

On 5/23/2020 at 2:36 AM, SABRES 0311 said:

I have seen the information presented to include the findings in the Mueller Report which did not conclude collusion. However information which led to the investigation specifically how it was obtained is questionable. Furthermore the investigation involved personalities of questionable character. Then Mueller publicly states he doesn’t want to testify about the investigation or its findings which makes no sense to me if the investigation was done in accordance with policies you will not find on Google. 

I read the Mueller Report too. If Trump were not president, Mueller could charge him with a crime and the report specifically outlined that. Trump has questionable character. Why are you deflecting everything in a thread about trump to others? Did he react slowly to the virus? Yes. Does he lie constantly because he has a personality disorder that won't allow him to tell the truth? Yes. Does he care about the United States? No, he cares about enriching himself. That's why his kids work in the white house with fake security clearances. That is why he fires IG's. That is why he lies when things go bad. That is why he doesn't take responsibility at all. He is a narcissistic old man with an adderall addiction who only wants one thing, to make himself look good. When I want to understand Trump I play little game... “I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, ‘how well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?" For Trump it is easy, whatever is happening has to benefit him personally in some way or it is lied about. 

[SABRES 0311]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I read the Mueller Report too. If Trump were not president, Mueller could charge him with a crime and the report specifically outlined that. Trump has questionable character. Why are you deflecting everything in a thread about trump to others? Did he react slowly to the virus? Yes. Does he lie constantly because he has a personality disorder that won't allow him to tell the truth? Yes. Does he care about the United States? No, he cares about enriching himself. That's why his kids work in the white house with fake security clearances. That is why he fires IG's. That is why he lies when things go bad. That is why he doesn't take responsibility at all. He is a narcissistic old man with an adderall addiction who only wants one thing, to make himself look good. When I want to understand Trump I play little game... “I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, ‘how well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?" For Trump it is easy, whatever is happening has to benefit him personally in some way or it is lied about. 

I’ll respond to your question with my own. Why do you consistently act like freedom and the U.S. is dying in a Trump thread? In your mind was everything perfect before him? This thread is about the Trump presidency but no presidency is unaffected by previous administrations and other influences. That is not an execuse for him to act like an idiot.

I never said he was a perfect guy or not of questionable character. I recommend you apply everything in bold to most politicians. I don’t disagree that weird things are happening to our liberties. I just don’t put the blame on one person. 

[SwampD]

10 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I’ll respond to your question with my own. Why do you consistently act like freedom and the U.S. is dying in a Trump thread? In your mind was everything perfect before him? This thread is about the Trump presidency but no presidency is unaffected by previous administrations and other influences. That is not an execuse for him to act like an idiot.

I never said he was a perfect guy or not of questionable character. I recommend you apply everything in bold to most politicians. I don’t disagree that weird things are happening to our liberties. I just don’t put the blame on one person. 

Red Herring Alert.

In a thread about Trump's presidency, what do former presidencies have to do with anything?

[SABRES 0311]

39 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Red Herring Alert.

In a thread about Trump's presidency, what do former presidencies have to do with anything?

Sounds like you think I’m making stuff up. Plus it sounds like you want me to explain myself. Hypocritical from a guy who said neither he nor another poster have to explain themselves. No problem. 

Some people say the numbers show Trump inherited a growing economy from Obama and the economy seems to be a priority for Trump to run on. Since opinions differ people would probably want to talk about what Obama did to make that point on Trump’s economy. If Trump loses the incoming president will have to fix what broke under Trump. Therefore the thread about the new president will probably talk a bit about Trump.

Middle East stability (instability) has spanned decades and multiple presidents. U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan created power vacuums terrorist and insurgent organizations rushed to fill. U.S. presence/action helped to slow it but also presented a recruitment push. Obama inherited a bad situation. He gained favor at home by reducing U.S. presence in Iraq but exacerbated the power vacuum due to a less than stellar Iraqi security force to fill the footprint. Trump inherited that situation from both previous presidents. What he did/does is on him but his courses of action are/were impacted by the situation on the ground, created before he took office. Looking at what Bush and Obama did can lend insight to the effects of what Trump does.

The situation Trump inherited with NK was about 60 years in the making. During that time the goal was to prevent NK from obtaining nuclear weapons until they did. As strategic patience failed Trump used a very abrasive approach. Whether it’s cause and effect or coincidence Trump got KJU to the table. NK still has nuclear weapons and still conducts missile tests which is seen as a failure until you consider the regime’s biggest concern. The next president will likely get tested by KJU early on to see how they react compared to Trump. Again, another discussion about the next president which will invoke Trump.

Trump ran as pro 2A. This attracted people angry after years of lawmakers calling for more restrictions. Gun sales rose when Obama was elected but dropped when Trump was elected (Trump Slump). This conversation could go on forever with multiple sub topics but involves statistics and actions which span multiple administrations.

Here’s my point. It’s a transfer of power and bag of goods from one presidency to another. These situations aren’t reset. Therefore what a previous president does impacts the decisions a current president makes to an extent. To ignore the history of these situations and what the U.S. has done in the past skews the discussion. Drive by comments (which I have done as well) lend no contribution IMO.

My intention is to look at as much of the picture to present points not discussed and add to what others have said. This thread can be an echo chamber of Trump sucks if that’s what you want. If so I’ll see my way out and let you have at it. I’ve been asked to explain myself more than once but told others don’t need to verbatim. 

 

[LTS]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:43 AM, SwampD said:

I think he colluded with Russia. I have life experience. I’m educated. I don’t have to back up anything. Neither does Irish.

Im happy for you that you are convinced you are right.

Much as you are convinced you are right.  You are both using the same argument to state your case.  "I'm right because I believe I am."

On 5/23/2020 at 2:07 AM, SABRES 0311 said:

I can’t imagine believing what other people say without knowing where it’s coming from but if it works for you then so be it. 

See above.. I know these are out of order, but so be it.  There is no way anything we've received as the cockroaches of society is 100% factual.  So while you may know where something comes from you can't know that it's 100% accurate.

9 hours ago, SwampD said:

Red Herring Alert.

In a thread about Trump's presidency, what do former presidencies have to do with anything?

If Trump were the first President ever then no former president would matter, but people would talk about the situation before there was a President.  When we talk about GMs of hockey teams do we not often speak of the GM that left a mess or the GM who inherited a good team?  Same as a coach.  

The situation that existed prior to a change in leadership (of any organization) will play into what transpires in the years following the change. Depending on the size of the organization and the propensity and capability for rapid change the impact may be lessened or expanded.

If one looked at stock market performance solely under Trump's reign, one would say that it improved significantly.  Yet I have seen arguments saying that the foundation for that improvement was laid during the Obama reign.  I'm not saying you did that, just saying that people give credit to the prior president for some things while at the same time declining to lay fault at the prior president for other things.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Much as you are convinced you are right.  You are both using the same argument to state your case.  "I'm right because I believe I am."

See above.. I know these are out of order, but so be it.  There is no way anything we've received as the cockroaches of society is 100% factual.  So while you may know where something comes from you can't know that it's 100% accurate.

If Trump were the first President ever then no former president would matter, but people would talk about the situation before there was a President.  When we talk about GMs of hockey teams do we not often speak of the GM that left a mess or the GM who inherited a good team?  Same as a coach.  

The situation that existed prior to a change in leadership (of any organization) will play into what transpires in the years following the change. Depending on the size of the organization and the propensity and capability for rapid change the impact may be lessened or expanded.

If one looked at stock market performance solely under Trump's reign, one would say that it improved significantly.  Yet I have seen arguments saying that the foundation for that improvement was laid during the Obama reign.  I'm not saying you did that, just saying that people give credit to the prior president for some things while at the same time declining to lay fault at the prior president for other things.

1st bolded. I was replying more to the unnecessary snark and condescension.

2nd bolded. People definitely pick and choose when to bring up prior administrations.

[SwampD]

On 5/24/2020 at 1:11 AM, SABRES 0311 said:

Space launch on Wednesday! Feels like forever since I watched one. 

·

Presiden@realDonaldTrump will travel to Central Florida to watch as @NASA and @SpaceX launch astronauts from American soil for the first time in nearly a decade!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/science/spacex-nasa-launch.amp.html

Tornado warning in FL right now. Wonder if this is going to happen.

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Tornado warning in FL right now. Wonder if this is going to happen.

Looks like they’re still a go. 

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Looks like they’re still a go. 

Just called off. Dang.

[SABRES 0311]

13 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Just called off. Dang.

 

 

 

SpaceX

 

@SpaceX

 

Standing down from launch today due to unfavorable weather in the flight path. Our next launch opportunity is Saturday, May 30 at 3:22 p.m. EDT, or 19:22 UTC

[Sabel79]

So, and you'd be forgiven for not knowing as the MSM can't tear themselves away from giving Elon Musk all the free advertising he wants for that thing that didn't happen today, but Minneapolis (at least a significant chunk of the city) is in chaos right now.  Anti-cop protests in the wake of the latest death in custody mixed with far right chaos agents who just want to fight the cops/start something big and bad. National Guard called in.  Stuff starting up in LA, Memphis, and probably others, but those two places for sure. 

This is going to go downhill fast.    Not gonna lie, I'm kinda terrified to see where this ends up.

[drnkirishone]

It is ok, I am sure our stable genius will calm the masses down .

[SABRES 0311]

6 hours ago, Sabel79 said:

So, and you'd be forgiven for not knowing as the MSM can't tear themselves away from giving Elon Musk all the free advertising he wants for that thing that didn't happen today, but Minneapolis (at least a significant chunk of the city) is in chaos right now.  Anti-cop protests in the wake of the latest death in custody mixed with far right chaos agents who just want to fight the cops/start something big and bad. National Guard called in.  Stuff starting up in LA, Memphis, and probably others, but those two places for sure. 

This is going to go downhill fast.    Not gonna lie, I'm kinda terrified to see where this ends up.

Four cops to hold one guy who is cuffed does not necessitate a knee on the neck IMO. That, in my non cop experience, is something I would do if I was alone, being overpowered or trying to apply restraints. I will reserve judgement on their mindset until this plays out. 

 

[Weave]

This incident is worthy of its own thread.  So much to say about it that isn't related to Trump.

Except, "It is ok, I am sure our stable genius will calm the masses down ."  That one is worthy of being here.

 

And meanwhile Donald is exacting revenge on Twitter for having the nerve to fact check him.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Weave

[LGR4GM]

He isn't doing ***** to twitter. He's not king even if he wants to be and saying they are going to shoot people for looting is directly against the twitter rules. Minn. is another flashpoint. You cannot keep murdering people and just expect those people not to react. And before someone brings up the looting, the cops arrested a black CNN correspondent. No reason to do it but they did because at the end of the day this is about racism in America and one of the biggest racists is the man in the White House. Donald J Trump. 

 

 

Also trump gave the game away on mail in ballots. "It will also lead to the end of our great republican party."  That is the point of not allowing it. He wants to suppress votes, the #1 tactic that has been used by the Republican party for, well really ever. 

 

[Weave]

Today, this is what this country has become.

[Weave]

0311 I saw your response but wasn't able to get around to responding to it before it was deleted.  Understand your complaint.  It has validity.

That cartoon has problematic imagery.  I didn't post it because I equate Trump supporters with filthy hillbillies.  Despicables and all that.  Trump support goes way beyond the stereotype in that political cartoon.  It was more the message I saw that was worthy of conversation, as opposed to the specific imagery.  The hypocrisy of freedom touting people on the right decrying the mask requirements as infringement and yet supporting police activities that result in death in the name of law and order. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Weave

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

0311 I saw your response but wasn't able to get around to responding to it before it was deleted.  Understand your complaint.  It has validity.

That cartoon has problematic imagery.  I didn't post it because I equate Trump supporters with filthy hillbillies.  Despicables and all that.  Trump support goes way beyond the stereotype in that political cartoon.  It was more the message I saw that was worthy of conversation, as opposed to the specific imagery.  The hypocrisy of freedom touting people on the right decrying the mask requirements as infringement and yet supporting police activities that result in death in the name of law and order. 

I deleted it because I realized I sounded like a cry baby. I think the photo takes away from the bigger picture. I also think the double message takes away from the guy who died with his face buried in the pavement. I don’t know if the cop is racist or poorly trained or on a power trip. I do know abuse of authority by politicians and some law enforcement affects people of all races no matter how disproportionately. Our reaction is to burn our communities and point fingers at other citizens based on political views. 

 

[Weave]

10 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I deleted it because I realized I sounded like a cry baby. I think the photo takes away from the bigger picture. I also think the double message takes away from the guy who died with his face buried in the pavement. I don’t know if the cop is racist or poorly trained or on a power trip. I do know abuse of authority by politicians and some law enforcement affects people of all races no matter how disproportionately. Our reaction is to burn our communities and point fingers at other citizens based on political views. 

 

I won't support burning communities, but proportion does matter.  Proportion is important because it points to behavioral trends.  This happens to blacks way more often than it happens to whites.  Yes, it happens to whites too, but the proportion of events is ridiculous.  And why do we point fingers based on politics?  The cartoon says it all.  The right staged armed protests over masks and social distancing. Where is the right's protest over police brutality, whether it happens to a white man or black?  It's not hard to point out the displaced priority here.  One is protest for a feigned outrage, the other is over actual loss of life and liberty.  When do we see the right protest?  Over taxes, over a change in enforcement of grazing rights on federal lands, over the dismantling of statues.  Actual life and liberty events bring silence.

We have a problem with law enforcement actions too frequently out of proportion with the offense committed.  I see it as a function of a "cops should be able to go home" mentality which creates a mindset that the police are more important than the people they interact with, a fraction of the police force that has an authority complex, and a racism problem in some fraction of law enforcement.  I think the first item is trained into them and is therefore systemic.  The second and third though IMO are the primary drivers of these events, although I wouldn't be surprised if this guy's defense is," that's what I was trained to do".  Regardless, we need these events to stop, whether it be through training reform or better screening of police candidates and a purge of cops who just don't have an acceptable personality for the job.  Unfortunately, the only times these events get attention are when riots break out, which makes the riots almost inevitable.

I agree that a man getting his neck kneeled on for 8 minutes is wholly unnecessary for the crime of trying to pass a phony $20 bill, regardless of color.  And we should be outraged regardless of color.  But we shouldn't ignore that it happens far more often to black men than it happens to whites.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Weave

[Weave]

This man gets my respect.