drnkirishone Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 The Republican politicians are cowards. They know he should not have been put in office. As pointed out many even said so originally. But I suppose it should not be a surprise none of them agree with the impeachment, hard to support convicting someone of something you yourself are doing.
SDS Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 41 minutes ago, drnkirishone said: The Republican politicians are cowards. They know he should not have been put in office. As pointed out many even said so originally. But I suppose it should not be a surprise none of them agree with the impeachment, hard to support convicting someone of something you yourself are doing. So, they are in a tough spot as this is what the party has devolved into. Normally, the populace leads the politicians when opinions change. Trump wasn't elected because he convinced people that bigotry and predatory tactics were the path forward - he was elected because that is what the base was looking for. Someone just like him to reflect people like themselves. This party ain't your daddy's GOP anymore. That page has turned and it ain't going back.
SABRES 0311 Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, SDS said: So, they are in a tough spot as this is what the party has devolved into. Normally, the populace leads the politicians when opinions change. Trump wasn't elected because he convinced people that bigotry and predatory tactics were the path forward - he was elected because that is what the base was looking for. Someone just like him to reflect people like themselves. This party ain't your daddy's GOP anymore. That page has turned and it ain't going back. So you think every person who supports Trump is looking to progress bigotry and predatory behavior? Gotta love the internet.
SDS Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: So you think every person who supports Trump is looking to progress bigotry and predatory behavior? Gotta love the internet. on election day 2016? No. On 12/20/19? They are inseparable. Feel free to prove me wrong... Keeping in mind that just this week he called a fellow American female a "slob", berated two separate security details for not manhandling women protesters, said a World War II vet is probably in hell, complained that he should ask for his money back from Democrat politicians he supported in the past that are supporting impeachment... and let's not forget today's attack on Christianity Today. This happens nearly every day if you pay any attention at all. There has been a lifetime of evidence of who he is and three years of a presidency if there was any doubt. To support Donald Trump today, means you willingly support all those behaviors with it.
SABRES 0311 Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, SDS said: on election day 2016? No. On 12/20/19? They are inseparable. Feel free to prove me wrong... Keeping in mind that just this week he called a fellow American female a "slob", berated two separate security details for not manhandling women protesters, said a World War II vet is probably in hell, complained that he should ask for his money back from Democrat politicians he supported in the past that are supporting impeachment... and let's not forget today's attack on Christianity Today. This happens nearly every day if you pay any attention at all. There has been a lifetime of evidence of who he is and three years of a presidency if there was any doubt. To support Donald Trump today, means you willingly support all those behaviors with it. So single issue voters who acknowledge the bad but support the president based on that issue still support bigotry?
SDS Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: So single issue voters who acknowledge the bad but support the president based on that issue still support bigotry? This president? Yes. His "bad" is what he is. He's not even a politician for crying out loud. He's a guy who wants to make a buck any which way he can and he will attack ANYONE - you included, who he thinks is against him. Women, children, vets, evangelicals, widows, whomever... It doesn't matter if David Duke supported gun rights and lower marginal tax rates. To support Duke is to support the Klan. It doesn't matter if Louis Farrakhan supports family values and strong black families. To support Farrakhan is to support antisemitism. There comes a time when certain traits cannot be dismissed in favor of others. We don't ask women to take the occasional smack across the face because hubby is really good at car maintenance. Certain traits ultimately define you. Supporting Trump is supporting those traits. There is no single issue that justifies what he does everyday. At some point, we all have to look beyond ourselves. Unless your issue is the right to assault women, I'm fairly confident Mike Pence will carry your single issue water.
SDS Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 47 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: So single issue voters who acknowledge the bad but support the president based on that issue still support bigotry? This is a decent summary of what people support when they support him: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/
SABRES 0311 Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, SDS said: This president? Yes. His "bad" is what he is. He's not even a politician for crying out loud. He's a guy who wants to make a buck any which way he can and he will attack ANYONE - you included, who he thinks is against him. Women, children, vets, evangelicals, widows, whomever... It doesn't matter if David Duke supported gun rights and lower marginal tax rates. To support Duke is to support the Klan. It doesn't matter if Louis Farrakhan supports family values and strong black families. To support Farrakhan is to support antisemitism. There comes a time when certain traits cannot be dismissed in favor of others. We don't ask women to take the occasional smack across the face because hubby is really good at car maintenance. Certain traits ultimately define you. Supporting Trump is supporting those traits. There is no single issue that justifies what he does everyday. At some point, we all have to look beyond ourselves. Unless your issue is the right to assault women, I'm fairly confident Mike Pence will carry your single issue water. Your perception of him differs from millions of fellow Americans. Not that you or they are wrong but to generalize millions who support him like that is something I disagree with. I for example like what he did with NK. People said his Sabre rattling would cause WW3. Then they said he failed because of a couple missile tests and no denuclearization. In reality his rhetoric led to talks. Something previous administrations did not do in favor of an approach dubbed strategic patience. Basic understanding of that regime and what strategic patience actually is disproves the negative responses. I also appreciate the harsh stance toward European allies. NATO exists to counter a Russian threat. Yet NATO didn’t do too much when Russia went into Crimea. Therefore why should the U.S. pay so much into a misused deterrent? In reality when viewing Russia as a peer/near peer, projection of combat power across the full spectrum of warfare is in U.S. favor. How these issues play out is anyone’s guess.
SABRES 0311 Posted December 20, 2019 Report Posted December 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, SDS said: This is a decent summary of what people support when they support him: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/ Then petition your Rep to censure him as it pertains to violation(s) of the Constitution and protection of equal rights. Many times I have had my support for him tested. What brings me back is hypocrisy of the left and worry over what could’ve happened had he lost.
SwampD Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 4 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said: Then petition your Rep to censure him as it pertains to violation(s) of the Constitution and protection of equal rights. Many times I have had my support for him tested. What brings me back is hypocrisy of the left and worry over what could’ve happened had he lost. Which would have been what? Nothing has changed with NK. The economy is growing at the exact same 2% under Trump as it did under Obama (who was handed a much worse situation, BTW). What exactly were you afraid of?
drnkirishone Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, SwampD said: What exactly were you afraid of? Seemingly? Menopause
SABRES 0311 Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, SwampD said: Which would have been what? Nothing has changed with NK. The economy is growing at the exact same 2% under Trump as it did under Obama (who was handed a much worse situation, BTW). What exactly were you afraid of? Nothing has changed? A U.S. president set foot on NK soil. He at least got the guy to come to the table. Do you prefer the misinterpretation and implementation of strategic patience? Like I said, to say Trump failed because a couple missile tests and no denuclearization is false when you understand the regime and bigger picture. NK denuclearization might happen further down the road but the first step is to stop ignoring the problem. The second is peaceful talks. I was worried about having a president who might use the same approach to counterinsurgency and war fighting the previous administrations used.
SwampD Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: Nothing has changed? A U.S. president set foot on NK soil. He at least got the guy to come to the table. Do you prefer the misinterpretation and implementation of strategic patience? Like I said, to say Trump failed because a couple missile tests and no denuclearization is false when you understand the regime and bigger picture. NK denuclearization might happen further down the road but the first step is to stop ignoring the problem. The second is peaceful talks. I was worried about having a president who might use the same approach to counterinsurgency and war fighting the previous administrations used. In terms of foreign policy, Hillary was the republican the right wishes they could have elected.
SABRES 0311 Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, SwampD said: In terms of foreign policy, Hillary was the republican the right wishes they could have elected. How so?
LTS Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 18 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said: So single issue voters who acknowledge the bad but support the president based on that issue still support bigotry? Yes. This is fundamentally true. In essence, if you support a person for their stance on a single issue and would put them in office because of it you are saying that issue is more important that the bigotry you acknowledge exists. I understand the point, that the alternative might be a worse decision, thus the concept of the lesser of two evils. However, we spend more time trying to determine who is more evil than trying to demand we get candidates who are just not evil in the first place. We're fundamentally broken because of it. That said, I'd prefer a President who can pull America together, not tear it apart like Trump is doing. Foreign policy, while important, is not nearly as important as governing the country you were elected to run. What good is having sit down talks with a North Korean dictator if your country is falling apart beneath you? I mean, we're not really falling apart yet but the foundations are being stressed to the highest levels they've ever been stressed I believe.
SABRES 0311 Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, LTS said: Yes. This is fundamentally true. In essence, if you support a person for their stance on a single issue and would put them in office because of it you are saying that issue is more important that the bigotry you acknowledge exists. I understand the point, that the alternative might be a worse decision, thus the concept of the lesser of two evils. However, we spend more time trying to determine who is more evil than trying to demand we get candidates who are just not evil in the first place. We're fundamentally broken because of it. That said, I'd prefer a President who can pull America together, not tear it apart like Trump is doing. Foreign policy, while important, is not nearly as important as governing the country you were elected to run. What good is having sit down talks with a North Korean dictator if your country is falling apart beneath you? I mean, we're not really falling apart yet but the foundations are being stressed to the highest levels they've ever been stressed I believe. It only took three years to get here. On election night people rioted in the streets, committed acts of vandalism and some called for violence. Then they took to social media articulating their hate. Then they targeted his wife with their hate. Now they target millions of fellow Americans by calling them supporters of all kinds of vile things. So I’m supposed to believe I support hate and bigotry from the very people who point fingers and propagate hate and division? Maybe if those who claim to be woke actually set a better example they wouldn’t come across as hypocritical and just as bad as what they accuse others of being.
Eleven Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said: So single issue voters who acknowledge the bad but support the president based on that issue still support bigotry? What is the "single issue" that can't be addressed by another Republican who doesn't act like Trump? There is none. There is no excuse for supporting him. Edited December 21, 2019 by Eleven
SABRES 0311 Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Eleven said: What is the "single issue" that can't be addressed by another Republican who doesn't act like Trump? There is none. There is no excuse for supporting him. Except he is the one in the Oval Office making the decisions. You can disagree all you want but I’m telling you, if the left keeps vilifying average Americans and making them out to be the enemy then one day it will reach a point of no return. You look for enemies one day you will find them.
Hank Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said: It only took three years to get here. On election night people rioted in the streets, committed acts of vandalism and some called for violence. Then they took to social media articulating their hate. Then they targeted his wife with their hate. Now they target millions of fellow Americans by calling them supporters of all kinds of vile things. So I’m supposed to believe I support hate and bigotry from the very people who point fingers and propagate hate and division? Maybe if those who claim to be woke actually set a better example they wouldn’t come across as hypocritical and just as bad as what they accuse others of being. You're wasting your time. Ignorant people who won't see past their own hypocracy can't be reasoned with.
drnkirishone Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 37 minutes ago, Hank said: You're wasting your time. Ignorant people who won't see past their own hypocracy can't be reasoned with. I am glad we found something we agree on about trump defenders
Hank Posted December 21, 2019 Report Posted December 21, 2019 1 minute ago, drnkirishone said: I am glad we found something we agree on about trump defenders Keep crying. You entertain me. ?
Eleven Posted December 22, 2019 Report Posted December 22, 2019 8 hours ago, Eleven said: What is the "single issue" that can't be addressed by another Republican who doesn't act like Trump? There is none. There is no excuse for supporting him. 8 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said: Except he is the one in the Oval Office making the decisions. You can disagree all you want but I’m telling you, if the left keeps vilifying average Americans and making them out to be the enemy then one day it will reach a point of no return. You look for enemies one day you will find them. Answer the question. What is the "single issue" that other, non-racist, non-misogynist Republicans couldn't address? Don't dodge.
SABRES 0311 Posted December 22, 2019 Report Posted December 22, 2019 27 minutes ago, Eleven said: Answer the question. What is the "single issue" that other, non-racist, non-misogynist Republicans couldn't address? Don't dodge. What do you mean dodge? Anyone elected to the position regardless of whatever can address all issues a voter would have. You said there is no excuse for supporting him. I said yes there is as he is the one holding the office. I didn’t like Obama but hoped he would make good decisions that affected me. Specifically I think most other Republicans would’ve committed to large scale troop deployment in Syria and continued with strategic patience in NK. I think many of them would’ve continued to overpay NATO. The reason I think this is because it’s all they know. It’s been our approach for most of this century so far. Oddly enough I think HRC would’ve done the same. The past 20 years taught us that those approaches in those situations do not favor our goals.
Eleven Posted December 22, 2019 Report Posted December 22, 2019 6 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said: What do you mean dodge? Anyone elected to the position regardless of whatever can address all issues a voter would have. You said there is no excuse for supporting him. I said yes there is as he is the one holding the office. I didn’t like Obama but hoped he would make good decisions that affected me. Specifically I think most other Republicans would’ve committed to large scale troop deployment in Syria and continued with strategic patience in NK. I think many of them would’ve continued to overpay NATO. The reason I think this is because it’s all they know. It’s been our approach for most of this century so far. Oddly enough I think HRC would’ve done the same. The past 20 years taught us that those approaches in those situations do not favor our goals. What is the "single issue" that can't be addressed by another Republican who doesn't act like Trump?
Weave Posted December 22, 2019 Report Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said: Except he is the one in the Oval Office making the decisions. You can disagree all you want but I’m telling you, if the left keeps vilifying average Americans and making them out to be the enemy then one day it will reach a point of no return. You look for enemies one day you will find them. You missed, or dismissed, Eleven's point completely. Single issue voters really won't be affected by an impeachment unless your single issue is bigoted. If Trump is removed from office Mike Pence is a more than conservative enough caretaker for the remainder of the term to ensure that whatever conservative single issue you cherish is protected until the next election. So protecting Trump over a single issue is bunk, pure and simple. In fact, if it really is a conservative issue that you are concerned about, Pence is the better person for it anyway, seeing as that Trump is not a conservative. Edited December 22, 2019 by Weave
Recommended Posts