SwampD Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: I thought the report said a SCIF. If so it’s illegal everywhere. I don’t know about SCIFs and I care even less. I’ve never heard of that term. I do know that none of this stuff means anything. Anything that happens in the world of politics happens to willing participants. To me, policy matters, not politics.
SABRES 0311 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, SwampD said: I don’t know about SCIFs and I care even less. I’ve never heard of that term. I do know that none of this stuff means anything. Anything that happens in the world of politics happens to willing participants. To me, policy matters, not politics. SCIF: Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility. In terms of national security someone brining in a listening device is a big deal.
SDS Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 2 hours ago, SwampD said: I don’t know about SCIFs and I care even less. I’ve never heard of that term. I do know that none of this stuff means anything. Anything that happens in the world of politics happens to willing participants. To me, policy matters, not politics. SCIFs are where classified information gets handled/discussed. Depending on the level of classification, the rules of access and conduct are strenuous.
SwampD Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, SDS said: SCIFs are where classified information gets handled/discussed. Depending on the level of classification, the rules of access and conduct are strenuous. Honest question, can the use of SCIFs be abused?
SABRES 0311 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, SDS said: SCIFs are where classified information gets handled/discussed. Depending on the level of classification, the rules of access and conduct are strenuous. 13 minutes ago, SwampD said: Honest question, can the use of SCIFs be abused? Non SCIF areas can be used to store, process and discuss information. SCIFs can do the same but are for different stuff as well. Not sure what you mean by abuse. I mean if you are referring to whether or not it was an appropriate venue for the testimony it would rely on what they were discussing. Bringing electronic devices not cleared inside would be in violation. Recording is asking for iron bracelets.
SwampD Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said: Non SCIF areas can be used to store, process and discuss information. SCIFs can do the same but are for different stuff as well. Not sure what you mean by abuse. I mean if you are referring to whether or not it was an appropriate venue for the testimony it would rely on what they were discussing. Bringing electronic devices not cleared inside would be in violation. Recording is asking for iron bracelets. I mean like, "Hey, lets go to the SCIF and talk ***** about so and so, and claim its a national security thing when it's made public, even though it was really just us talking ***** about someone and not wanting anyone to find out."
SABRES 0311 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, SwampD said: I mean like, "Hey, lets go to the SCIF and talk ***** about so and so, and claim its a national security thing when it's made public, even though it was really just us talking ***** about someone and not wanting anyone to find out." I’d say unethical but not in violation of policies governing SCIF security. Now claiming that discussion contained classified information while knowingly using that excuse to hide the contents of that discussion from political opposition is a potential violation of policies. Guidelines are clear that one cannot classify something because it might be politically harmful. A discussion, document, media, so on would have to contain information which the unauthorized disclosure is reasonably expected to harm national security to warrant a classification. However someone could simply say they thought the discussion would reach that threshold or that the meeting deviated from what was planned.
Weave Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 I no longer understand the behavior of our Republican representatives. I generally understand the tactical movements in government. I may not agree with their use, but I understand why. The behavior that has been evolving over the last couple of years, I don’t understand. And especially so yesterday. And all this is being done to keep a man in office that is rapidly losing all support except for a relatively small base. The party is acting very desperately. As if there is no hope if Trump is successfully impeached. Well..... if this sort of thing continues, there will probably be the political reckoning that they fear.
LGR4GM Posted October 24, 2019 Author Report Posted October 24, 2019 I would note that during the Benghazi hearings, a good part of those was held in the SCIF and never once did I hear Republicans or Democrats bitch about hiding the proceedings. Further the committees investigating all have multiple Republican members present to report back. This isn't a new thing and it isn't being done in some shadowy secret way. This is how it has always been done. Gaetz should watch All the Presidents Men because at this point he isn't a representative of Florida but a willing participant in a the degradation of the US political system and Constitution.
drnkirishone Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 The behavior of Republicans can be understood if you view them as cult members following a cult leader 2
darksabre Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 On 10/23/2019 at 5:16 PM, SABRES 0311 said: If you don’t agree that’s fine. However I’m not going to change my view just because you don’t agree. Bottom line is I’m not owning the stupidity of white supremacists of the past. I’m not saying it wasn’t a poor choice of words. It just seems like people feel a white person should never use it. So again you live your life how you want and I will do the same. It's not about opinion or "living your life". It's about being a good person with a firm grasp on reality.
SABRES 0311 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) On 10/25/2019 at 5:59 AM, darksabre said: It's not about opinion or "living your life". It's about being a good person with a firm grasp on reality. What is the matrix? Lolol. BTW being a good person doesn’t entail telling others how to live. Edited October 26, 2019 by SABRES 0311
Weave Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 26% increase in the budget deficit over the previous 12 months. #newconservatism
Ogre Posted October 26, 2019 Report Posted October 26, 2019 18 hours ago, Weave said: 26% increase in the budget deficit over the previous 12 months. #newconservatism You would think this guy would have learned a thing or two from all of those bankruptcies. As for the bolded, did anyone actually think these people cared one way or another about deficits? What do we have to show for these deficits? What new policy that benefits the average income earner? Even more important, what have these deficits done for those that desperately need help in this country? Will these people still vote for these flip flippers floppers?
SABRES 0311 Posted October 27, 2019 Report Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) So I’m hearing Al Baghdadi was killed in a U.S. raid. Idlib has always been an area of interest for Turkey. I think this raid and all the talk of a U.S. withdrawal were meant as a deception to draw him out, creating a false sense of freedom of movement. Turkey in turn moves into northern Syria to provide a cordon. Kurdish forces do not have the resources for that task. If he is dead I am interested in seeing what Turkey does. I’m guessing they remain place. I wouldn’t be surprised if reports of a cease fire and hostilities prior were a part of it. Essentially making ISIS think they will be able to operate within the chaos then closing the door of escape on them once conditions were met. This also makes me question the ISIS prison escapes. Did that many really get out or was this to support the chaos theory by getting ISIS to think these guys would return to their lines. I could be wrong though. If I’m not...... Edited October 27, 2019 by SABRES 0311
Weave Posted October 27, 2019 Report Posted October 27, 2019 On 10/26/2019 at 9:30 AM, Ogre said: You would think this guy would have learned a thing or two from all of those bankruptcies. As for the bolded, did anyone actually think these people cared one way or another about deficits? What do we have to show for these deficits? What new policy that benefits the average income earner? Even more important, what have these deficits done for those that desperately need help in this country? Will these people still vote for these flip flippers floppers? The irony is, when it comes to fiscal policy, the Dems are the ones acting as conservatives. Deficits have ballooned under the last 2 Republican presidencies and reduced under the last 2 Democrats. I wonder if we are in the midst of another flip flop of the parties similar to when the Dixiecrats started bailing on the Dems during the Civil Rights era, or even more appropriately, when the Democrats in the 1860's opposed a huge expansion of Federal power that the Republicans oversaw. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html More and more Donald Trump looks to be leading a change in the Republican party, going back to the days when the GOP was formed to fight immigration and expand the government through post war Reconstruction and policies favorable to the banks and railroads at the expense of western farmers.
LGR4GM Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Posted October 28, 2019 On 10/26/2019 at 11:49 PM, SABRES 0311 said: So I’m hearing Al Baghdadi was killed in a U.S. raid. Idlib has always been an area of interest for Turkey. I think this raid and all the talk of a U.S. withdrawal were meant as a deception to draw him out, creating a false sense of freedom of movement. Turkey in turn moves into northern Syria to provide a cordon. Kurdish forces do not have the resources for that task. If he is dead I am interested in seeing what Turkey does. I’m guessing they remain place. I wouldn’t be surprised if reports of a cease fire and hostilities prior were a part of it. Essentially making ISIS think they will be able to operate within the chaos then closing the door of escape on them once conditions were met. This also makes me question the ISIS prison escapes. Did that many really get out or was this to support the chaos theory by getting ISIS to think these guys would return to their lines. I could be wrong though. If I’m not...... You know how I know that isn't what happened. Trump didn't brag about it. If that was his plan or even a plan he was able to take credit for, he would be bragging about it. They abandoned the Kurds because he wanted to help Erdogan and Russia.. So in short I think you are wrong. Trump ditched his Kurdish allies to help out Erdogan and then was able to get Baghdadi because of actionable intel. "Mazloum Abdi, the commander in chief of the Kurdish forces in Syria, said in a tweet the intelligence operations that led to the US military raid in Syria that killed Baghdadi began five months ago." And yet the first people Trumped thanked weren't the Kurds.
LGR4GM Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Posted October 28, 2019 22 hours ago, Weave said: The irony is, when it comes to fiscal policy, the Dems are the ones acting as conservatives. Deficits have ballooned under the last 2 Republican presidencies and reduced under the last 2 Democrats. I wonder if we are in the midst of another flip flop of the parties similar to when the Dixiecrats started bailing on the Dems during the Civil Rights era, or even more appropriately, when the Democrats in the 1860's opposed a huge expansion of Federal power that the Republicans oversaw. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html More and more Donald Trump looks to be leading a change in the Republican party, going back to the days when the GOP was formed to fight immigration and expand the government through post war Reconstruction and policies favorable to the banks and railroads at the expense of western farmers. Seems reasonable. The Republican voter suppression tactics are also similar to past efforts although instead of death and intimidation it is voter ID laws and preparing to declare the 2020 election invalid due to fraud.
LGR4GM Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Posted October 28, 2019 On 10/26/2019 at 11:49 PM, SABRES 0311 said: So I’m hearing Al Baghdadi was killed in a U.S. raid. Idlib has always been an area of interest for Turkey. I think this raid and all the talk of a U.S. withdrawal were meant as a deception to draw him out, creating a false sense of freedom of movement. Turkey in turn moves into northern Syria to provide a cordon. Kurdish forces do not have the resources for that task. If he is dead I am interested in seeing what Turkey does. I’m guessing they remain place. I wouldn’t be surprised if reports of a cease fire and hostilities prior were a part of it. Essentially making ISIS think they will be able to operate within the chaos then closing the door of escape on them once conditions were met. This also makes me question the ISIS prison escapes. Did that many really get out or was this to support the chaos theory by getting ISIS to think these guys would return to their lines. I could be wrong though. If I’m not...... There is a report in the NYT that they had to move on Baghdadi now because the Pentagon and CIA were concerned that they would lose the ability to do so shortly due to Trump's abrupt pull out order. That order came just after he spoke with Erdogan on the phone. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/27/us/politics/baghdadi-isis-leader-trump.html
SABRES 0311 Posted October 28, 2019 Report Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, LGR4GM said: You know how I know that isn't what happened. Trump didn't brag about it. If that was his plan or even a plan he was able to take credit for, he would be bragging about it. They abandoned the Kurds because he wanted to help Erdogan and Russia.. So in short I think you are wrong. Trump ditched his Kurdish allies to help out Erdogan and then was able to get Baghdadi because of actionable intel. "Mazloum Abdi, the commander in chief of the Kurdish forces in Syria, said in a tweet the intelligence operations that led to the US military raid in Syria that killed Baghdadi began five months ago." And yet the first people Trumped thanked weren't the Kurds. The actionable intel definitely led to execution of the operation but I cannot rule out other nation participation. I wouldn’t think the full planning details will get released but the timing of everything is what leads me to think what I stated.
LGR4GM Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: The actionable intel definitely led to execution of the operation but I cannot rule out other nation participation. I wouldn’t think the full planning details will get released but the timing of everything is what leads me to think what I stated. The timing of what you stated does not add up. 3 weeks ago Trump suddenly pulls out of Syria after a phone call to Erdogan. Then 2 days ago they move on Baghdadi while 100 + prisoners escape and several hundred Kurds are killed. Now the only allies we relied on hate us and we destabilized that entire region shortly after we assisted with stabilizing it. If they did all this to get one guy it might make it slightly worse than Trump doing it just because he is an idiot and Erdogan conned him. You are trying to spin a terrible policy decision that will have long lasting and unforeseen impacts. Trump ***** up, big time. He's awful at foreign policy and if the Democratic candidate is smart they will hammer that point whenever necessary. Edited October 28, 2019 by LGR4GM
LGR4GM Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Posted October 28, 2019 Here, let's assume your theory is true. It is still a terrible decision because of the 100+ ISIS prisoners and the hundreds of dead Kurds even if we got Baghdadi because Trump should have been more patient instead of pulling out 3 weeks ago to flush out 1 guy. So even if we have a starting point that your theory is true, it isn't, it is still a terrible policy decision because it shows that Trump is impulsive instead of being patient and he is terrible at risk management/assessment.
SABRES 0311 Posted October 28, 2019 Report Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: The timing of what you stated does not add up. 3 weeks ago Trump suddenly pulls out of Syria after a phone call Erdogan. Then 2 days ago they move on Baghdadi while 100 + prisoners escape and several hundred Kurds are killed. Now the only allies we relied on hate us and we destabilized that entire region shortly after we assisted with stabilizing it. If they did all this to get one guy it might make it slightly worse than Trump doing it just because he is an idiot and Erdogan conned him. The number of actors in the country and instability is a friction point. I think the Turks could’ve secured routes of egress Baghdadi could’ve used. Judging by the fact he detonated a suicide vest he was desperate not to be captured. Announcing a U.S. withdrawal may have provide him with a false sense of security. When Bin Laden was killed he had minimum personal protection probably because he thought Pakistan was more permissible without a large U.S. presence. Therefore I think the withdrawal announcement and Turkish incursion played a part.
LGR4GM Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: The number of actors in the country and instability is a friction point. I think the Turks could’ve secured routes of egress Baghdadi could’ve used. Judging by the fact he detonated a suicide vest he was desperate not to be captured. Announcing a U.S. withdrawal may have provide him with a false sense of security. When Bin Laden was killed he had minimum personal protection probably because he thought Pakistan was more permissible without a large U.S. presence. Therefore I think the withdrawal announcement and Turkish incursion played a part. Playing a part and being the cause are not the same. Trump didn't have some master plan to flush this guy out and even if he did it was a shockingly terrible plan. You are spinning this to try and make Trump look good. Let's apply Occam's razor, Trump decided to leave because Erdogan convinced him too (probably because Trump doesn't want the US in Syria, undoubtedly his Russian ties and his own belief he is the smartest person in the room played in). Because the US was leaving, Baghdadi poked his head up to sniff the air, the US intelligence apparatus received enough additional intel (they had 5 months of intel from the Kurds) to finally act. There was not an overarching plan, just by coincidence 3 weeks after the US withdrawal they got enough intel to move on. This explanation is far more likely than Trump thinking he could sacrifice several hundred Kurds, allow at least 100 ISIS prisoners to escape, all in the hope that 1 guy might feel slightly safer and poke is head out. And again if the plan was to withdraw US troops, sacrifice the Kurds to the Turkish genocide, help Russia exert more influence on the area, and allow 100 ISIS prisoners to escape all to get 1 guy... then to quote Tony Stark, Edited October 28, 2019 by LGR4GM
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