SwampD Posted August 21, 2019 Report Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: No he isn't america. He's the left over filth from a garbage group of entitled piles of ***** that needs to leave power so we can all move on. Really? Economy, foreign policy, immigration policy, energy policy... etc. He's trash He is not trash because of his policies (some of which I agree with, some which I don’t). I can’t stand this kind of talk. It doesn’t move us forward and it bothers me just as much as when you do it as when the president does. Just because we disagree with someone doesn’t make them garbage, or trash, or awe full people. You just disagree FFS.
darksabre Posted August 22, 2019 Report Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, SwampD said: He is not trash because of his policies (some of which I agree with, some which I don’t). I can’t stand this kind of talk. It doesn’t move us forward and it bothers me just as much as when you do it as when the president does. Just because we disagree with someone doesn’t make them garbage, or trash, or awe full people. You just disagree FFS. This ain't it.
SwampD Posted August 22, 2019 Report Posted August 22, 2019 27 minutes ago, darksabre said: This ain't it. What ain't what? We need to just talk issues without the name calling. … Although, maybe you are right. He is America. Guess I gotta get use to it.
darksabre Posted August 22, 2019 Report Posted August 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, SwampD said: What ain't what? We need to just talk issues without the name calling. … Although, maybe you are right. He is America. Guess I gotta get use to it. The idea that people are simply "disagreeing" is pretty quaint.
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2019 Author Report Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, SwampD said: He is not trash because of his policies (some of which I agree with, some which I don’t). I can’t stand this kind of talk. It doesn’t move us forward and it bothers me just as much as when you do it as when the president does. Just because we disagree with someone doesn’t make them garbage, or trash, or awe full people. You just disagree FFS. Alright which policy should we discuss? Edited August 22, 2019 by LGR4GM
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2019 Author Report Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, SwampD said: What ain't what? We need to just talk issues without the name calling. … Although, maybe you are right. He is America. Guess I gotta get use to it. Alright. I'll try not to tell you what I think he is. Edited August 22, 2019 by LGR4GM 1
drnkirishone Posted August 22, 2019 Report Posted August 22, 2019 36 minutes ago, SwampD said: Guess I gotta get use to it. You kinda have to. Commander in Orange has weaponized and normalized internet trolling. It is seen as acceptable to some and normal to others that the most powerful political and military position in our country operates in the fashion that he does.
SwampD Posted August 22, 2019 Report Posted August 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, drnkirishone said: You kinda have to. Commander in Orange has weaponized and normalized internet trolling. It is seen as acceptable to some and normal to others that the most powerful political and military position in our country operates in the fashion that he does. That's a good point. But we need to elevate ourselves above him and not let him drag us down to his level. 33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Alright which policy should we discuss? I don't need to discuss any of them as I mostly agree with you. I just think ending a post with "He's trash" completely negates any headway you may have made, with good points, in someone who may have differing views.
5th line wingnutt Posted August 22, 2019 Report Posted August 22, 2019 18 hours ago, darksabre said: Trump isn't so much destroying the country as he is clumsily exposing every single vile truth of the brain disease that is American Conservatism and the tangled web that connects all of it. Perhaps we should be thanking him for shattering the barriers that kept the quiet parts from being said out loud. The quiet parts are now blasting out at full volume, obvious and unavoidable. Trump leaning into the racism, the fascism, the gas-lighting, the white supremacy, the anti-semitism-- it's weirdly vindicating. Trump isn't destroying America, he is America. At least we don't have to pretend otherwise anymore. Now that the Boris & Natasha hoax has crashed and burned we see the desperate pivot to name calling. 14 hours ago, LGR4GM said: The economy is unstable, wages are rising at lower levels than they were. Unemployment continued the descent from Obama and is now starting to creep up. We're headed towards a recession. The deficit is growing massively. Between the tariffs and tax cuts the US economy is extremely fragile. You can't deficit spend like this, it's a time bomb. The worst part is with corporate welfare being so high with taxes so low there's no wiggle room to help the economy when it starts to fall which is about to occur. The middle class has continued to see meager wage increases relative to inflation. Meanwhile the tax cuts that were going to give us all more money have increased the wealth gap and little else. Do your own research, the economy is not okay. It's slowing and there is a recession coming, probably in the next 12 months. All sound and fury, no evidence.
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2019 Author Report Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Now that the Boris & Natasha hoax has crashed and burned we see the desperate pivot to name calling. All sound and fury, no evidence. I have documented the economy in this thread and how it continued what it did from the Obama administration multiple times. The only difference was a slight uptick due to the deficit accelerating tax cut for the wealthy which has largely faded as companies did exactly what all economists said, they did not dramatically raise investments in new jobs or wages but instead did stock buybacks. At some point it is on you to do your own research. Also why should I provide evidence? The Trump doesn't, he just lies and says whatever he wants because he thinks he is king. But here ya go: https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543 https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/us-gdp-second-quarter-2019.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/05/31/trumps-economy-is-really-running-below-2/#35f3460a3e80 https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/07/05/trump-is-falling-almost-1-million-jobs-short-vs-obama/#181dbcd8caa7 Edited August 22, 2019 by LGR4GM
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2019 Author Report Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Now that the Boris & Natasha hoax has crashed and burned we see the desperate pivot to name calling. You haven't noticed Trump has been name calling since he announced his run? He has insulted everyone from political opponents to allies and yet I see no evidence from you defending him. Just trying to call the rest of us out. Russia interfered in our election even without Trump's help. Why hasn't the GOP lead senate or Trump done anything to ensure the safety of our elections? Why is Trump still peddling the lie about illegal votes and voter fraud? Well? You want to defend him go right ahead but where's your evidence? 10 hours ago, SwampD said: That's a good point. But we need to elevate ourselves above him and not let him drag us down to his level. I don't need to discuss any of them as I mostly agree with you. I just think ending a post with "He's trash" completely negates any headway you may have made, with good points, in someone who may have differing views. He's a narcissistic pathological liar. That is not name calling, those are facts. You don't call yourself the chosen one and retweet someone calling you the king of Israel while simultaneously lying about every single thing you do without being a narcissist and a pathological liar. I won't back down from that. Edited August 22, 2019 by LGR4GM
SABRES 0311 Posted August 22, 2019 Report Posted August 22, 2019 Presidents get hit from all directions. Now one hits back and people get upset about it. I’ll go out on a limb and say he probably told the truth about one or two things even if by accident. I’d be lying if I said I believed Mexico would pay for a wall. I put about as much belief in that as I do the world ending in 12 years or the Benghazi attack resulting from disgruntled worshipers. I am kicking myself for falling for the Bush Iraq narrative.
Eleven Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 10:22 PM, drnkirishone said: You kinda have to. Commander in Orange has weaponized and normalized internet trolling. It is seen as acceptable to some and normal to others that the most powerful political and military position in our country operates in the fashion that he does. But his third wife's "cause" is an anti-bullying campaign. Surely he supports that? By the way, how's that going, Melania? 16 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Now that the Boris & Natasha hoax has crashed and burned Someone didn't read the actual report.
LGR4GM Posted August 23, 2019 Author Report Posted August 23, 2019 20 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said: Presidents get hit from all directions. Now one hits back and people get upset about it. I’ll go out on a limb and say he probably told the truth about one or two things even if by accident. I’d be lying if I said I believed Mexico would pay for a wall. I put about as much belief in that as I do the world ending in 12 years or the Benghazi attack resulting from disgruntled worshipers. I am kicking myself for falling for the Bush Iraq narrative. Lol, he is a thin skinned narcissist who wants to be a dictator. Only a weak president feels the need to hit back at real and perceived slights. He lashed out at Denmark for not wanting to sell him Greenland, in what way is that him "getting hit". It is just him showing his hurt ego and being an overall ***** person.
SABRES 0311 Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Lol, he is a thin skinned narcissist who wants to be a dictator. Only a weak president feels the need to hit back at real and perceived slights. He lashed out at Denmark for not wanting to sell him Greenland, in what way is that him "getting hit". It is just him showing his hurt ego and being an overall ***** person. Ok
SwampD Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Lol, he is a thin skinned narcissist who wants to be a dictator. Only a weak president feels the need to hit back at real and perceived slights. He lashed out at Denmark for not wanting to sell him Greenland, in what way is that him "getting hit". It is just him showing his hurt ego and being an overall ***** person. After this mornings tweets, I regret having tried to silence your thoughts about the president. I wont do it again.
Weave Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 A good read about the need for voting in favor of process over policy. https://reason.com/2019/08/21/justin-amash-wants-to-talk-about-process-and-love-but-his-constituents-want-to-talk-about-gun-control/
5th line wingnutt Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 On 8/22/2019 at 8:38 AM, LGR4GM said: I have documented the economy in this thread and how it continued what it did from the Obama administration multiple times. The only difference was a slight uptick due to the deficit accelerating tax cut for the wealthy which has largely faded as companies did exactly what all economists said, they did not dramatically raise investments in new jobs or wages but instead did stock buybacks. At some point it is on you to do your own research. Also why should I provide evidence? The Trump doesn't, he just lies and says whatever he wants because he thinks he is king. But here ya go: https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543 https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/us-gdp-second-quarter-2019.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/05/31/trumps-economy-is-really-running-below-2/#35f3460a3e80 https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/07/05/trump-is-falling-almost-1-million-jobs-short-vs-obama/#181dbcd8caa7 Thanks for posting something I could get my teeth into. I read all of this stuff. It is like a lot of economic news, a mixed bag. I do not think it proves much of anything, one way or another. As to your graph, employment bottomed early in 2010. During most recoveries employment gets back on track much faster. We only reached full employment about a year ago. I think the stimulus slowed the recovery. It failed by its own metric (it was supposed to keep unemployment below 8%). It was total pork, wasting about 850B. Had it been for infastructure it might have been almost worth it. There was a lot more idiocy, none dumber than cash for clunkers, "only" about 3B but totally nonsensical. Another problem was the near endless extension of unemployment benefits. As to deficits, I agree with you. They are bad. OTOH, I do not remember you complaining about them during Mr. Obama's tenure. Sooner or later debt service will kill us. I have been in favor of a balanced budget amendment for my entire adult life. There are almost no budget hawks left in Washington, D.C. If there is even a single Democrat budget hawk I am not aware of him. Most Democrats claim to be Keynesians. If you have actually read Keynes you will know he was aginst structural deficits. Rand Paul is the only budget hawk I can think of, offhand. You seem to think deficits are caused by the Trump tax cut. Nope. Total tax revenues are up since the tax cut passed. Corporate tax revenue is down but personal tax revenue is up. Spending is up even more than revenue. We need to get spending under control. I was in favor of the tax cut because corporate taxes were way too high. Even Mr. Obama said so.
5th line wingnutt Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 13 hours ago, Eleven said: [Snip] Someone didn't read the actual report. Please more specific.
SwampD Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 The government made money on the bailouts. I was against them, as well, at the time. I was wrong.
Eleven Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Please more specific. I'll indulge you. The report concluded that Russia interfered in the election and could not conclude that Trump was unaware or did not collude. The report could not reach a conclusion on the second issue because Trump & certain others would not cooperate with the investigation. All of this is explicitly stated in the report. If you think the "Boris & Natasha hoax has crashed and burned," you cannot have read the report. And don't think for a second that I'm going to look it up chapter and verse for you. I read the whole thing once; I'm not doing it again. Edited August 23, 2019 by Eleven
Weave Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 2 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said: I was in favor of the tax cut because corporate taxes were way too high. Totally disagree. The top personal tax rate is 35%. The top corporate tax rate is also effectively 35%. The whole reason for the existence of business incorporation is to provide a legal and financial separation of the owners of a business from the business's liabilities, and the penalty for that separation was a higher tax rate. We have effectively removed the penalty for separating your personal liability from your companies liability. Goes completely against the spirit in which the laws setting up incorporation were founded. Personal taxes should be lower than corporate taxes because of the legal separation that incorporation provides. Corporate taxes are too low. (Or personal taxes are too high. Take your pick)
5th line wingnutt Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 38 minutes ago, Eleven said: I'll indulge you. The report concluded that Russia interfered in the election and could not conclude that Trump was unaware or did not collude. The report could not reach a conclusion on the second issue because Trump & certain others would not cooperate with the investigation. All of this is explicitly stated in the report. If you think the "Boris & Natasha hoax has crashed and burned," you cannot have read the report. And don't think for a second that I'm going to look it up chapter and verse for you. I read the whole thing once; I'm not doing it again. So what? They also did not conclude that Obama was unaware or did not collude. In our system of jurisprudence we assume innocence. I'll stick with "crash and burn". The whole thing was hoax perpetrated by HRC and the DNC, just like the Steele dossier hoax.
5th line wingnutt Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Weave said: Totally disagree. The top personal tax rate is 35%. The top corporate tax rate is also effectively 35%. The whole reason for the existence of business incorporation is to provide a legal and financial separation of the owners of a business from the business's liabilities, and the penalty for that separation was a higher tax rate. We have effectively removed the penalty for separating your personal liability from your companies liability. Goes completely against the spirit in which the laws setting up incorporation were founded. Personal taxes should be lower than corporate taxes because of the legal separation that incorporation provides. Corporate taxes are too low. (Or personal taxes are too high. Take your pick) I choose neither. Corporate taxes being too high was making our corporation noncompetitive. When the Trump tax rate cut went into effect lots of people in high tax were complaining about double taxation, some in this very thread. Corporate profits are quadruple taxed. The before tax profits are taxed by the feds and the states (not all states but many) at an average rate somewhere between 5% to 10%. After tax profits that are paid out to shareholders are also taxed by the feds and most states. That is a lot. Additionally, if a US company makes a profit abroad they pay corporate taxes abroad and if they bring profits home they pay a repatriation tax. If we went back to following the constitution we could cut the federal government by 90%.
Eleven Posted August 23, 2019 Report Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said: So what? They also did not conclude that Obama was unaware or did not collude. In our system of jurisprudence we assume innocence. I'll stick with "crash and burn". The whole thing was hoax perpetrated by HRC and the DNC, just like the Steele dossier hoax. Obama? Huh? And wow, that last sentence. You're a little out there if you think the DNC was behind getting Donald Trump elected as president. And none of it means that the "Boris & Natasha hoax has crashed and burned." Edited August 23, 2019 by Eleven
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