TrueBlueGED Posted July 15, 2019 Report Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) On 7/14/2019 at 12:39 PM, Weave said: At this point I don't know why, but this morning's tweets by Trump have left me shocked. Telling 4 black Congresswomen to go back where they came from in a published tweet. There can't be anyone left that still questions whether or not he is a racist, can there? I mean, at this point, they might as well own it and embrace the racism, cuz it's out there for everyone to see now. It's not even subtle or wink, wink, nod, nod anymore. You underestimate the power of motivated reasoning. For example: Edited July 15, 2019 by TrueBlueGED
Sabel79 Posted July 15, 2019 Report Posted July 15, 2019 The cognitive dissonance rings loud from sea to shining...well, you get it.
darksabre Posted July 15, 2019 Report Posted July 15, 2019 The Republican party is, by default, not allowed to acknowledge that something is racist. They are fully aware of what racism is, but they can't actually allow someone to quote them as saying that something is racist. They've been hand-waving accusations of racism for so long that they can no longer allow that some of those accusations are legitimate. To them, every accusation of racism is a false one, because it has to be. To them there is no such thing as a good-faith accusation of racism. All accusations of racism are illegitimate. 1
TrueBlueGED Posted July 15, 2019 Report Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sabel79 said: For instance... Mitt is a real profile in courage. Plenty of members of Congress can't win re-election without Trump's backing. He not only can, but he's not even up for re-election this cycle. And he still can't bring himself to acknowledge what any reasonable person knows Trump's comments were. Edited July 15, 2019 by TrueBlueGED
darksabre Posted July 15, 2019 Report Posted July 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: Mitt is a real profile in courage. Plenty of members of Congress can't win re-election without Trump's backing. He not only can, but he's not even up for re-election this cycle. And he still can't bring himself to acknowledge what any reasonable person knows Trump's comments were. Obviously we would expect nothing more from Mitt Romney, a bag of flour and water in a suit.
Weave Posted July 15, 2019 Report Posted July 15, 2019 3 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said: You underestimate the power of motivated reasoning. For example: To be fair, he said that the specific tweets didn't elevate to racist, not that the man isn't racist. I suppose if you squint real hard and look at it sideways long enough a non-racist judgement may seem plausible. While still believing the man who hit "post" is a racist poop bag. Is Britt Hume associated with the Republican party? I don't watch TV news. Haven't since we cut the cord 8yrs ago. Last I recall Hume was a CNN reporter that covered election stuff. Never struck me as biased then. I'm disappointed in Romney side stepping that. All courage was lost with McCain's passing apparently. I don't see how I could ever walk back to the GOP after all this. They are badly soiled AFAIAC.
SABRES 0311 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Weave said: To be fair, he said that the specific tweets didn't elevate to racist, not that the man isn't racist. I suppose if you squint real hard and look at it sideways long enough a non-racist judgement may seem plausible. While still believing the man who hit "post" is a racist poop bag. Is Britt Hume associated with the Republican party? I don't watch TV news. Haven't since we cut the cord 8yrs ago. Last I recall Hume was a CNN reporter that covered election stuff. Never struck me as biased then. I'm disappointed in Romney side stepping that. All courage was lost with McCain's passing apparently. I don't see how I could ever walk back to the GOP after all this. They are badly soiled AFAIAC. Hume seems like a pretty reserved type of person. Just wants to report the information.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Weave said: To be fair, he said that the specific tweets didn't elevate to racist, not that the man isn't racist. I suppose if you squint real hard and look at it sideways long enough a non-racist judgement may seem plausible. While still believing the man who hit "post" is a racist poop bag. Is Britt Hume associated with the Republican party? I don't watch TV news. Haven't since we cut the cord 8yrs ago. Last I recall Hume was a CNN reporter that covered election stuff. Never struck me as biased then. I'm disappointed in Romney side stepping that. All courage was lost with McCain's passing apparently. I don't see how I could ever walk back to the GOP after all this. They are badly soiled AFAIAC. Not officially. But Fox News is basically state media at this point. And Romney didn't even sidestep, he tacitly endorsed it.
Weave Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 Hume is a Fox guy now? The only Romney quotes I’ve seen were dodges. But I haven’t seeked out full interviews or anything like that. That would be even more disappointing.
darksabre Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Weave said: Hume is a Fox guy now? The only Romney quotes I’ve seen were dodges. But I haven’t seeked out full interviews or anything like that. That would be even more disappointing. Does it matter? Refusing to denounce is to endorse. Romney is fine with it and he doesn't need to actually say it to say it.
Weave Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, darksabre said: Does it matter? Refusing to denounce is to endorse. I don’t agree with this. But I’ll leave it at that. This line of logic at the run up to the election was why I left for awhile. It’s too digital to be realistic or accurate.
darksabre Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Weave said: I don’t agree with this. But I’ll leave it at that. This line of logic at the run up to the election was why I left for awhile. It’s too digital to be realistic or accurate. It's politics. Non-statement statements are part of the game. Romney knows exactly what he's doing.
Sabel79 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 If one is at this point unable to connect the dots, it's the result of a conscious and purposeful refusal to do so. 2
Weave Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 38 minutes ago, darksabre said: It's politics. Non-statement statements are part of the game. Romney knows exactly what he's doing. Specific to Romney, I agree. 23 minutes ago, Sabel79 said: If one is at this point unable to connect the dots, it's the result of a conscious and purposeful refusal to do so. I don’t think I’ve indicated otherwise.
drnkirishone Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 Commander in orange wants them to apologize to him for the potty mouth they have.... before they leave the country
Sabel79 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, Weave said: I don’t think I’ve indicated otherwise. As to your personal view, no you haven't. But... 5 hours ago, darksabre said: Refusing to denounce is to endorse. 1 hour ago, Weave said: I don’t agree with this. But I’ll leave it at that. This line of logic at the run up to the election was why I left for awhile. It’s too digital to be realistic or accurate. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, you're willing to give a pass to all, or at least a great number of those who enable this? That many are just going along because they believe they stand to gain from it so they're not as culpable? It's not coincidental or a byproduct. He and his cohort are absolutely getting away with it, and there is no floor we can hit before things become untenable. What it says about us as a nation and a people is terrifying, and finding it hard to swallow is understandable, but it's there plain as day. How we chose to respond to it is going to determine what history writes about us, and sadly I have no faith that we're going to do anything different than we have been for the past three years, sinking ever deeper into the morass. 1
Weave Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) I am willing to give a pass to the common man who says nothing if their actions are counter. In other words, I don’t feel a need for you specifically to condemn the words of our President, but I would judge you if you are voting for him at this point. Emphasis on common man. Not everyone is built to speak up. I don’t consider it enabling when they are willing to put action to what they aren’t speaking. Mitt Romney is not common man. He holds a position of great influence. I absolutely expect him to speak up. Their are many members of this club that haven’t spoken their opinions in here, or anywhere wlse that we know of, does that mean they are enablers? I don’t think it is accurate to portray them that way. Edited July 16, 2019 by Weave 1
Sabel79 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, Weave said: Their are many members of this club that haven’t spoken their opinions in here, or anywhere wlse that we know of, does that mean they are enablers? I don’t think it is accurate to portray them that way. Even were I to cede your point (which, IMHO, rests on a vast general overestimation of the virtue of the silent common man), the effect is, in the end, the exact same. Wittingly or not, yes, they are enabling. We've seen it happen before. A large amount of scholarship has been done and many books written as to how and why this happens. We know. And yet... here we are.
Weave Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sabel79 said: Even were I to cede your point (which, IMHO, rests on a vast general overestimation of the virtue of the silent common man), the effect is, in the end, the exact same. Wittingly or not, yes, they are enabling. We've seen it happen before. A large amount of scholarship has been done and many books written as to how and why this happens. We know. And yet... here we are. You seem to be referring to apathy. I’m not willing to assume that silence is evidence of apathy or agreement. Your mileage may vary. Regarding your point that, in the end the effect is the same, I mostly agree. It's the idea that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. I put much more weight upon those with real influence, responsibility and power than I do among the masses. That is why we elect them. Edited July 16, 2019 by Weave
Sabel79 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 Yeah... apathy is not what I was going for there. I think the the level of signoff is much, much higher than you do. Indeed, there is a reason we elect people to office. Look who we’ve elected. And will certainly re-elect.
drnkirishone Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Weave said: You seem to be referring to apathy. I’m not willing to assume that silence is evidence of apathy or agreement. Your mileage may vary. Regarding your point that, in the end the effect is the same, I mostly agree. It's the idea that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. I put much more weight upon those with real influence, responsibility and power than I do among the masses. That is why we elect them. Imho the people with the influence, responsibility and power will continue to do nothing because the people they represent are not speaking out against it and holding the elected representatives feet to the fire
Weave Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 13 hours ago, drnkirishone said: Imho the people with the influence, responsibility and power will continue to do nothing because the people they represent are not speaking out against it and holding the elected representatives feet to the fire Unless you are communicating with your representatives they wouldn’t know you are speaking out. Let’s face it, outside of your chosen social media site, how many people do you interact with that freely discuss controversial topics in any form that might get back to a representative? 1
SABRES 0311 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 14 hours ago, drnkirishone said: Imho the people with the influence, responsibility and power will continue to do nothing because the people they represent are not speaking out against it and holding the elected representatives feet to the fire People always say they will make their voices heard at the polls but they don’t need to wait that long. Look at the BLM issue a couple years ago. Bunch of citizens on horseback with guns had their voices heard. Good combination of 1A and 2A.
TrueBlueGED Posted July 17, 2019 Report Posted July 17, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 3:55 PM, Weave said: You seem to be referring to apathy. I’m not willing to assume that silence is evidence of apathy or agreement. Your mileage may vary. Regarding your point that, in the end the effect is the same, I mostly agree. It's the idea that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. I put much more weight upon those with real influence, responsibility and power than I do among the masses. That is why we elect them. More pointedly, that's the only way average voters are going to be swayed. Public opinion is a top-down process, not bottom-up. And really, GOP leaders aren't going to turn on Trump while he's in office because their electoral fortunes are tied to his.
Recommended Posts