Donald J Trump, your thoughts on his Presidency

[Weave]

And because I am on a roll, one more chart that not only shows just how ridiculously low illegal immigration is historically, it also plainly shows what we need to do to minimize illegal immigration.  Hint, it ain't a wall.

 

Ahhh. the graph wouldn't paste properly.  Click the link.

 

https://infogram.com/html-figure-8-1hke603e9dr165r

 

Basically, as guest worker visas go up, illegal immigration drops like a rock, and today's illegal immigration rates are a fraction of what they were in the past.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Weave

[Scottysabres]

6 hours ago, Eleven said:

I've been asking this question since January 1 and no one seems to have an answer.  Even the lame duck Congress after the election could have done something if it really needed to be done.  So, really, the issue is just a political football.

I 100% agree with the question as to why the other political party did nothing.

But, it was the Democrats, not the Republicans, who put these loopholes in the Asylum section of the current policies.

I fully support Trumps idea to ship'em all to sanctuary cities. If the Democrats, who currently control the House, refuse to act, then hey, all turns is fair game.

But, it doesn't change the facts, yes facts, that it is a crises. I cannot believe citizens honestly are that uneducated as to not see this was coming.

And yet...………………………...here we are.

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I 100% agree with the question as to why the other political party did nothing.

But, it was the Democrats, not the Republicans, who put these loopholes in the Asylum section of the current policies.

I fully support Trumps idea to ship'em all to sanctuary cities. If the Democrats, who currently control the House, refuse to act, then hey, all turns is fair game.

But, it doesn't change the facts, yes facts, that it is a crises. I cannot believe citizens honestly are that uneducated as to not see this was coming.

And yet...………………………...here we are.

You really aren’t interested in looking at actual data, are you?

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I 100% agree with the question as to why the other political party did nothing.

But, it was the Democrats, not the Republicans, who put these loopholes in the Asylum section of the current policies.

I fully support Trumps idea to ship'em all to sanctuary cities. If the Democrats, who currently control the House, refuse to act, then hey, all turns is fair game.

But, it doesn't change the facts, yes facts, that it is a crises. I cannot believe citizens honestly are that uneducated as to not see this was coming.

And yet...………………………...here we are.

Huh?  What is "the other political party?" Name it.  It begins with an R.  And I think we've all explained why.

And have you ANY idea how the  Democrats hated--I mean HATED--Obama's immigration policies?

Lastly.  It's "crisis."  With an i and an s.  How people keep screwing this up, I've no idea.  Maybe it's Southern schools.

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

You really aren’t interested in looking at actual data, are you?

No.  Of course not.

[Scottysabres]

17 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Huh?  What is "the other political party?" Name it.  It begins with an R.  And I think we've all explained why.

And have you ANY idea how the  Democrats hated--I mean HATED--Obama's immigration policies?

Lastly.  It's "crisis."  With an i and an s.  How people keep screwing this up, I've no idea.  Maybe it's Southern schools.

No.  Of course not.

LOL, I am not a Republican, or, you choose not to read what I posted early on. I have no affiliation with them either. I've stated over and over again, Bush should have been put to death for his atrocities.

But that is neither here nor there. The current situation is solely on the Democrats.

Between 2008 and 2016, Democrats became more and more confident that the country’s growing Latino population gave the party an electoral edge. To win the presidency, Democrats convinced themselves, they didn’t need to reassure white people skeptical of immigration so long as they turned out their Latino base. “The fastest-growing sector of the American electorate stampeded toward the Democrats this November,” Salon declared after Obama’s 2008 win. “If that pattern continues, the GOP is doomed to 40 years of wandering in a desert.”

~ Peter Beinart, Liberal author

“A decade or two ago,” says Jason Furman, a former chairman of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers, “Democrats were divided on immigration. Now everyone agrees and is passionate and thinks very little about any potential downsides.”

~ Jason Furman

This is just a sample of Liberals who spoke candidly. There is more, but you can look it up yourselves. In short, it is the Democrat Party machine that has set this in motion for political gain. That's right, you can hide from it, deflect it, all you'd like. The bottom line still comes back to putting my family, friends, loved ones at risk, for mere political gain.

You cannot explain it away, you cannot turn a blind eye to the millions of us that see it for what it is, no matter how much you "wish it to be different". In the end, there was a system in place for LEGAL IMMIGRATION that did work. Failure to act by the Democrat Party at the legislative level in the past 2 years to work with the Executive Branch that WAS AND STILL IS SOUNDING THE ALARM is SOLELY AND COMPLETELY on the the shoulders of Democrats.

This isn't a game to those CITIZENS that have already perished, nor to those that are sure to in the immediate and longer term future. This WILL PLAY OUT in the 2020 election, you can take that to the bank.

•  

   

[drnkirishone]

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck. Clearly it is not a Republican because it has repeatedly used the Republican playbook for arguing talking points

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

LOL, I am not a Republican, or, you choose not to read what I posted early on. I have no affiliation with them either. I've stated over and over again, Bush should have been put to death for his atrocities.

But that is neither here nor there. The current situation is solely on the Democrats.

Between 2008 and 2016, Democrats became more and more confident that the country’s growing Latino population gave the party an electoral edge. To win the presidency, Democrats convinced themselves, they didn’t need to reassure white people skeptical of immigration so long as they turned out their Latino base. “The fastest-growing sector of the American electorate stampeded toward the Democrats this November,” Salon declared after Obama’s 2008 win. “If that pattern continues, the GOP is doomed to 40 years of wandering in a desert.”

~ Peter Beinart, Liberal author

“A decade or two ago,” says Jason Furman, a former chairman of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers, “Democrats were divided on immigration. Now everyone agrees and is passionate and thinks very little about any potential downsides.”

~ Jason Furman

This is just a sample of Liberals who spoke candidly. There is more, but you can look it up yourselves. In short, it is the Democrat Party machine that has set this in motion for political gain. That's right, you can hide from it, deflect it, all you'd like. The bottom line still comes back to putting my family, friends, loved ones at risk, for mere political gain.

You cannot explain it away, you cannot turn a blind eye to the millions of us that see it for what it is, no matter how much you "wish it to be different". In the end, there was a system in place for LEGAL IMMIGRATION that did work. Failure to act by the Democrat Party at the legislative level in the past 2 years to work with the Executive Branch that WAS AND STILL IS SOUNDING THE ALARM is SOLELY AND COMPLETELY on the the shoulders of Democrats.

This isn't a game to those CITIZENS that have already perished, nor to those that are sure to in the immediate and longer term future. This WILL PLAY OUT in the 2020 election, you can take that to the bank.

•  

   

You really need to look at data and stop relying on someone else's talking points.  Under the Obama administration the percentage of immigrants that were Hispanic went DOWN. The idea that Democrats were importing Hispanics to improve their election chances is laughable when you look at the data.

[Weave]

10 minutes ago, drnkirishone said:

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck. Clearly it is not a Republican because it has repeatedly used the Republican playbook for arguing talking points

I know, right?  He says he's Libertarian, but doesn't hold a single Libertarian view.  Says he's not a Republican, but spouts talking points right out of the Tea Party playbook.

Nothing worse than someone ashamed to own what they really are.

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

You really need to look at data and stop relying on someone else's talking points.  Under the Obama administration the percentage of immigrants that were Hispanic went DOWN. The idea that Democrats were importing Hispanics to improve their election chances is laughable when you look at the data.

Is that the PEW RESEARCH CENTER I see?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread953064/pg1
 

http://www.barnesfriends.org/downlload/com_Peeeeewww-Weyrich.pdf

Might I suggest, just suggest mind you, that you quote something really substantive. While I realize and am fully cognizant that the temptation to reach for anything, just anything to justify what is currently going on to justify your position, just stop for a moment. Citizens lives are being lost, being altered forever, that much is factual. So, as I asked in one of my very first posts in this thread, cut through the *****, where do your loyalties lay? The answer to that, speaks all I need know about you, as a Citizen, as a person.

[Weave]

10 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Is that the PEW RESEARCH CENTER I see?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread953064/pg1
 

http://www.barnesfriends.org/downlload/com_Peeeeewww-Weyrich.pdf

Might I suggest, just suggest mind you, that you quote something really substantive. While I realize and am fully cognizant that the temptation to reach for anything, just anything to justify what is currently going on to justify your position, just stop for a moment. Citizens lives are being lost, being altered forever, that much is factual. So, as I asked in one of my very first posts in this thread, cut through the *****, where do your loyalties lay? The answer to that, speaks all I need know about you, as a Citizen, as a person.

 

Well now, that explains everything.  There is some serious tin foil hat in abovetopsecret. You night want to turn back towards reality.

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

Well now, that explains everything.  There is some serious tin foil hat in abovetopsecret. You night want to turn back towards reality.

I served my country, in 2 campaigns, honorably. I have 4 children that I am leaving this nation to in my blood line. If you honestly believe the tin foil hat bull ***** is going to fly this way, think again. I am, have always, and always will, base my opinions and formulate my forward progress based on the realities of what is actually happening.

It isn't my fault you, and those with similar mind sets, refuse to acknowledge what is actually happening. I am fortunate enough to have seen these events first hand, or, as my kids would tell you, unfortunate enough, as it altered their perception of the world as well as they saw first hand those realities. I speak my mind, I have no qualms of being proven incorrect, but the body count of United States Citizens is rising, it isn't subsiding. Which I noticed, you completely fail to address.

There is no gray area here Weave, there is room to correct a system that was working prior to the past 16 years or so. That is why I say Republicans are equally as guilty in the accessory to murder of US Citizens. Is that to harsh for you? Unless it's a loved one, friend or some type of immediate impact, those that are dead, are just numbers to you. Well, news flash, they're not to me.

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I served my country, in 2 campaigns, honorably. I have 4 children that I am leaving this nation to in my blood line. If you honestly believe the tin foil hat bull ***** is going to fly this way, think again. I am, have always, and always will, base my opinions and formulate my forward progress based on the realities of what is actually happening.

It isn't my fault you, and those with similar mind sets, refuse to acknowledge what is actually happening. I am fortunate enough to have seen these events first hand, or, as my kids would tell you, unfortunate enough, as it altered their perception of the world as well as they saw first hand those realities. I speak my mind, I have no qualms of being proven incorrect, but the body count of United States Citizens is rising, it isn't subsiding. Which I noticed, you completely fail to address.

There is no gray area here Weave, there is room to correct a system that was working prior to the past 16 years or so. That is why I say Republicans are equally as guilty in the accessory to murder of US Citizens. Is that to harsh for you? Unless it's a loved one, friend or some type of immediate impact, those that are dead, are just numbers to you. Well, news flash, they're not to me.

I have no idea what point you are trying to convey.  There is no coherent point in this post.

[Scottysabres]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

I have no idea what point you are trying to convey.  There is no coherent point in this post.

Oh, don't play coy with me. The point has been stead fast and remained unwavering in my posts. United States Citizens are losing their lives specifically due to Democrat Party members, supporters and allies full blown support of open borders, sanctuary communities and turning their back on United States Citizens safety via securing the border.

Have no idea? No coherency? My stance has not wavered, as stated. This conversation is done. Like so many other Liberals, leftists, Democrats I've spoken with, your true to the cause. And what is that cause, you may want to pay at least, paltry attention to this, the cause is to ignore and actually promote the death of American Citizens and hope to replace them with illegal immigrants to eventually permanently secure ideological superiority at the Federal Level of governance to enact an agenda that enslaves the remaining population.

You call it tin foil bull *****, myself and roughly half the nation call it an attempt to install a tyrannical oligarchy that's sole goal for existence is to subjugate a nation to pure tyranny.

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Oh, don't play coy with me. The point has been stead fast and remained unwavering in my posts. United States Citizens are losing their lives specifically due to Democrat Party members, supporters and allies full blown support of open borders, sanctuary communities and turning their back on United States Citizens safety via securing the border.

Have no idea? No coherency? My stance has not wavered, as stated. This conversation is done. Like so many other Liberals, leftists, Democrats I've spoken with, your true to the cause. And what is that cause, you may want to pay at least, paltry attention to this, the cause is to ignore and actually promote the death of American Citizens and hope to replace them with illegal immigrants to eventually permanently secure ideological superiority at the Federal Level of governance to enact an agenda that enslaves the remaining population.

You call it tin foil bull *****, myself and roughly half the nation call it an attempt to install a tyrannical oligarchy that's sole goal for existence is to subjugate a nation to pure tyranny.

You honestly don't think, Trump or Republicans want an Oligarchy? 

Also your second paragraph is just total trash. I read your original fox news article. You don't deal in facts and you spew hatred towards a wide and diverse group of people, Democrats. I don't tell Trump supporters they are supporting the destruction of our children because Betsy DeVos wants private religion centered schools. I try to ask them why they have voted and support him. It's called a conversation. 

Here's your original source. A fox news article that does what fox does best, dehumanizes and vilified. You probably didn't post your source because it gave you more outs. 

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/mainstream-media-changes-border-crisis-illegal-immigration

 

Also, you still haven't responded to my facts about the economy. Why? Because it doesn't fit your ideology, and your brain can't handle that level of dissonance. 

You're blocked. Not because you have a different view although ik you'll see it that way. No you're blocked because of your hate speech and refusal to discuss things. I don't want to read anything else you think because you sound like a Nationalist. Vilify 1 group while claiming to be patriotic. The constitution applies to both Democrat and Republican, but again you feel differently. Its why you couldn't admit Trump hasn't done much for job growth other than continue Obama's track.

You're an ideologue. The very thing you are projecting on others. 

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Is that the PEW RESEARCH CENTER I see?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread953064/pg1
 

http://www.barnesfriends.org/downlload/com_Peeeeewww-Weyrich.pdf

Might I suggest, just suggest mind you, that you quote something really substantive. While I realize and am fully cognizant that the temptation to reach for anything, just anything to justify what is currently going on to justify your position, just stop for a moment. Citizens lives are being lost, being altered forever, that much is factual. So, as I asked in one of my very first posts in this thread, cut through the *****, where do your loyalties lay? The answer to that, speaks all I need know about you, as a Citizen, as a person.

What you're arguing for isn't freedom, it's fear. 

Also nothing like crapping on Pew and then tossing out a forum for your counter point. 

You don't deal in facts and pivot to ignore facts whenever it suits you. You're reading the Trump playbook. The only way to win that game is not to play. So without further ado, you're blocked. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

As to my own views. I don't understand sanctuary cities well,  could anyone talk about why they are good or bad?

[SABRES 0311]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You honestly don't think, Trump or Republicans want an Oligarchy? 

Also your second paragraph is just total trash. I read your original fox news article. You don't deal in facts and you spew hatred towards a wide and diverse group of people, Democrats. I don't tell Trump supporters they are supporting the destruction of our children because Betsy DeVos wants private religion centered schools. I try to ask them why they have voted and support him. It's called a conversation. 

Here's your original source. A fox news article that does what fox does best, dehumanizes and vilified. You probably didn't post your source because it gave you more outs. 

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/mainstream-media-changes-border-crisis-illegal-immigration

 

Also, you still haven't responded to my facts about the economy. Why? Because it doesn't fit your ideology, and your brain can't handle that level of dissonance. 

You're blocked. Not because you have a different view although ik you'll see it that way. No you're blocked because of your hate speech and refusal to discuss things. I don't want to read anything else you think because you sound like a Nationalist. Vilify 1 group while claiming to be patriotic. The constitution applies to both Democrat and Republican, but again you feel differently. Its why you couldn't admit Trump hasn't done much for job growth other than continue Obama's track.

You're an ideologue. The very thing you are projecting on others. 

 

Definition of nationalism

1: loyalty and devotion to a nation especially : a sense of national consciousness (see CONSCIOUSNESS sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranationalgroups

The Difference Between Nationalism, Patriotism, Sectionalism, and Jingoism

Nationalism has a number of near-synonyms, each of which carries its own distinct meaning. Patriotism is similar insofar as it emphasizes strong feelings for one’s country, but it does not necessarily imply an attitude of superiority. Sectionalism resembles nationalism in its suggestion of a geopolitical group pursuing its self-interest, but the group in question is usually smaller than an entire nation. Jingoism closely resembles nationalismin suggesting feelings of cultural superiority, but unlike nationalism, it always implies military aggressiveness.

My interpretation of old Webster is that nationalism implies putting your country and it’s culture above all others. It implies a sense of superiority which I get is debatable but if our country wasn’t better in general terms why do people risk their lives to come here? 

Anyway the point of this post it to point out a nationalist and white nationalist are not the same. Also, just because we have raging idiots like the KKK and Aryan Brotherhood claiming to be nationalists it doesn’t make others racist. I would think a nationalist would love their country to the point of understanding it is a conglomeration of cultures making up a unified nation of states. 

I get not wanting general vilification though.

Anyway this is between you two so I’ll see myself out.
 

[SABRES 0311]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

As to my own views. I don't understand sanctuary cities well,  could anyone talk about why they are good or bad?

No expert here but I think there is a relaxation in applying federal laws regarding immigration. There is probably little support systems and early warning of ICE operations. 

IMO they are bad because it sets examples of not properly applying federal law which could be applied to other issues in the future. It also demonstrates a bad example in general for the rule of law. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Definition of nationalism

1: loyalty and devotion to a nation especially : a sense of national consciousness (see CONSCIOUSNESS sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranationalgroups

The Difference Between Nationalism, Patriotism, Sectionalism, and Jingoism

Nationalism has a number of near-synonyms, each of which carries its own distinct meaning. Patriotism is similar insofar as it emphasizes strong feelings for one’s country, but it does not necessarily imply an attitude of superiority. Sectionalism resembles nationalism in its suggestion of a geopolitical group pursuing its self-interest, but the group in question is usually smaller than an entire nation. Jingoism closely resembles nationalismin suggesting feelings of cultural superiority, but unlike nationalism, it always implies military aggressiveness.

My interpretation of old Webster is that nationalism implies putting your country and it’s culture above all others. It implies a sense of superiority which I get is debatable but if our country wasn’t better in general terms why do people risk their lives to come here? 

Anyway the point of this post it to point out a nationalist and white nationalist are not the same. Also, just because we have raging idiots like the KKK and Aryan Brotherhood claiming to be nationalists it doesn’t make others racist. I would think a nationalist would love their country to the point of understanding it is a conglomeration of cultures making up a unified nation of states. 

I get not wanting general vilification though.

Anyway this is between you two so I’ll see myself out.
 

 I actually doubled checked the word and used it deliberately. That air of superiority implies someone else is inferior or in this instance, inhuman. The problem is once you get that far, you're country is justified in doing anything to keep its superiority. Keep in mind that the definition of superiority not nationalism is the important part. 

Also ultra nationalism leads to one end. All the diverse paths converge. 

5 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

No expert here but I think there is a relaxation in applying federal laws regarding immigration. There is probably little support systems and early warning of ICE operations. 

IMO they are bad because it sets examples of not properly applying federal law which could be applied to other issues in the future. It also demonstrates a bad example in general for the rule of law. 

Hmm interesting. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by LGR4GM

[SABRES 0311]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 I actually doubled checked the word and used it deliberately. That air of superiority implies someone else is inferior or in this instance, inhuman. The problem is once you get that far, you're country is justified in doing anything to keep its superiority. Keep in mind that the definition of superiority not nationalism is the important part. 

Also ultra nationalism leads to one end. All the diverse paths converge. 

Hmm interesting. 

I agree nationalism in its most extreme results in violence against entire groups of people. I say again though, not every nationalist fits that mold. What gives nationalists a bad name are those idiots who promote it as a racial issue like white supremacists. I think @Scottysabres is trying to say he puts our laws ahead of the migrant’s situation, not survival of white people against Hispanic people.

IMO his views on liberals in this matter are tied to your question on sanctuary cities. American state officials are aiding and abetting people breaking our laws. In the short term these people get to stay in the U.S. but always looking over their shoulder scared of being caught. The answer to that is not abolishing ICE, it’s fixing the immigration system and looking at what is causing illegal immigrants. @LTS and I have discussed this and I think we’re able to see eye to eye on some things. Conservatives are not innocent in this either. 

I’m more worried about what is happening with our political discourse and what that can lead to. This race and immigration thing along with guns has become so polarizing as if it is by design to keep us divided. 

Sorry about the length.

[SABRES 0311]

Different but related issue:

I just read a response to Trump’s tweet about sending illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities. As you can imagine those responses can get “spirited”. Here is a comment from a woman in a conversation with another tweeter, not me I don’t have Twitter.

7h

 

“My response was to a racist comment I received. When you hate another person because of their nationality, that's racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior”

 

Problem: Nationality, race, ethnicity and religion are all different things. 

 

Example: 

Nationality: Kosovo 

Race: Caucasian

Ethnicity: Serbian

Religion: Christian-further divided into sect

 

Example:

Nationality: Afghanistan 

Race: Asian

Ethnicity: Tajik- further divided into tribe

Religion: Islam - further divided into sect

 

Example:

Nationality: USA

Race: Black

Ethnicity: Akan - African ethnolinguistics number in the thousands

Religion: Christian - further divided into sect

 

There is a level of stupidity that makes meaningful discussion difficult to have. Uneducated people running around with their emotional reactions and virtue signaling. Look what’s happening with JJFIVEOH right now. One of our own accused of a racist comment out of delusion. 

[Weave]

4 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

This race and immigration thing along with guns has become so polarizing as if it is by design to keep us divided.

Of course it is by design. 

[SABRES 0311]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

Of course it is by design. 

To parody the next Avengers, what is the End Game of all of this?

[Weave]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

To parody the next Avengers, what is the End Game of all of this?

To continue the parody, we're in the end game now.  Oligarchy.

[SABRES 0311]

Just now, Weave said:

To continue the parody, we're in the end game now.  Oligarchy.

How do we stop it? Please don’t say enter the quantum realm.