Donald J Trump, your thoughts on his Presidency

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

The overwhelming information and recorded events are put there, look them up yourself.

Just as you subscribe to your "information channels", and claim them to be factual, I do mine as well.

Only, don't look now, but the real facts are leaning in my direction.

Us Education weekly, a liberal publication (since your so high on publications to trust) just came out in Feb. of 2018 with figures on the impact a 10.3 to 1 liberal to conservative educator ratio is having on shaping the young.

But hell, we'll ignore conservatives being attacked on both university and public high schools for pro conservative attire. Physically assaulted and so on.

But ya, liberal ideology isn't being pushed in a larger aspect within the educational system all while incident after incident, story after story says other wise. Nothing to see here folks, move along.........(insert large eye roll here)

BTW you still haven't answered my original question. 

[LTS]

21 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

The overwhelming information and recorded events are put there, look them up yourself.

Just as you subscribe to your "information channels", and claim them to be factual, I do mine as well.

Only, don't look now, but the real facts are leaning in my direction.

Us Education weekly, a liberal publication (since your so high on publications to trust) just came out in Feb. of 2018 with figures on the impact a 10.3 to 1 liberal to conservative educator ratio is having on shaping the young.

But hell, we'll ignore conservatives being attacked on both university and public high schools for pro conservative attire. Physically assaulted and so on.

But ya, liberal ideology isn't being pushed in a larger aspect within the educational system all while incident after incident, story after story says other wise. Nothing to see here folks, move along.........(insert large eye roll here)

Telling someone to look something up themselves is not in the best interest of how this forum should operate.  If you want to make a claim you can provide the substantive proof that supports your claim.  

Your reference to US Education Weekly would be much more useful if it included a link to the information you are quoting.  It provides the citation that allows us to work from the same base of information to have a discussion.

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If I wanted to read fox news I would but instead I just come here and get it all from Scotty. He has failed multiple times when presented with actual facts to prove anything he believes and at 1 point in our argument said "I can choose to believe or not believe anything I like" as a counter argument to the mountains of evidence that Trump has done nothing to improve the economy. On top of that I gave evidence of Trump increasing both the debt and deficit and he shrugged it off as nothing but was all pissed about Obama doing it. Talk about cognitive dissonance. 

Hell he couldn't or wouldn't give me concrete examples of where in public schools they push the liberal agenda. Considering I know way too much about Education in NY, I can say fairly effectively that teachers don't have any time to push some liberal agenda on kids as they battle to teach in ever deteriorating education environment brought on by the fact we have slashed taxes on corporations and the wealthy so much that the pool of money for education and infrastructure is on life support. So until President P#ssy Grabber stops yelling about some dumb wall that won't fix anything and starts signing bills for education and infrastructure, I will continue to say he sucks at his job because all he has done is keep the Obama economy running and add more debt and deficit to the nation. 

Teachers have very little leeway in what they can teach, what books they use, etc.  The deteriorating education system is deteriorating because of the Dept. of Education's desire to standardize every child's learning into metrics. In order to standardize one needs standardized tests.  These tests require curriculum that must be standardized and as such the individual teacher is left with very little left to choose from.  That said, teachers are generally more liberal because the liberal person also generally performs work for the greater good as opposed to personal gain.  Given the status of teachers within our current society, I would venture a guess that there are very few professions as a whole that can be classified as serving the greater good over personal gain.

Also, in accordance to how this forum should operate, there is no need to refer to President Trump as you did.

-----------------------

Bottom line, there are valid points of discussion to be had in this thread.  Let's work to make the valid points, support those points, and bring the level of conversation up to where it can be.

[bob_sauve28]

25 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

RR wasn't the author of the dossier, nor was he in front of the FISA court lying directly about it. But that is neither here nor there.

RR is an after thought in the process. A failed Coup d'etat appears by all known public records released to date, to have taken place.

Fusion pays for the dossier by Clinton campaign and the trail goes from there.

Oh no, he appointed the special council that Trump was calling a witch hunt. Hysterics aside, the facts are against your position. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, LTS said:

Telling someone to look something up themselves is not in the best interest of how this forum should operate.  If you want to make a claim you can provide the substantive proof that supports your claim.  

Your reference to US Education Weekly would be much more useful if it included a link to the information you are quoting.  It provides the citation that allows us to work from the same base of information to have a discussion.

Teachers have very little leeway in what they can teach, what books they use, etc.  The deteriorating education system is deteriorating because of the Dept. of Education's desire to standardize every child's learning into metrics. In order to standardize one needs standardized tests.  These tests require curriculum that must be standardized and as such the individual teacher is left with very little left to choose from.  That said, teachers are generally more liberal because the liberal person also generally performs work for the greater good as opposed to personal gain.  Given the status of teachers within our current society, I would venture a guess that there are very few professions as a whole that can be classified as serving the greater good over personal gain.

Also, in accordance to how this forum should operate, there is no need to refer to President Trump as you did.

-----------------------

Bottom line, there are valid points of discussion to be had in this thread.  Let's work to make the valid points, support those points, and bring the level of conversation up to where it can be.

He hasn't brought up any valid anything. I have repeatedly asked for his "claims" to be backed up with evidence and instead have gotten "I reject your reality and substitute my own" which is right out of the fox propaganda playbook. If you don't like the facts, ignore them. 

As for Trump, that's what the man said so I am just using his own words to describe him. I'll try to limit that in the future. 

[LTS]

54 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He hasn't brought up any valid anything. I have repeatedly asked for his "claims" to be backed up with evidence and instead have gotten "I reject your reality and substitute my own" which is right out of the fox propaganda playbook. If you don't like the facts, ignore them. 

As for Trump, that's what the man said so I am just using his own words to describe him. I'll try to limit that in the future. 

That's why i asked for him to support his position.  I agree with your statement.  I don't like others telling people to look things up.  If you care enough to speak up, care enough to support it.

Regarding Trump, thank you. 

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Oh no, he appointed the special council that Trump was calling a witch hunt. Hysterics aside, the facts are against your position. 

I see nothing hysterical by calling it what it overwhelmingly appears to have been, a failed Coup d'etat.

Honestly, one cannot simply ignore the texts from Page, Strozk, the Documents from McCabe and texts, the direct statements from Page as well as texts on Loretta Lynch's knowledge and authorization of the operation that included the dossier, Sally Yates role is the another key connection to the joint FBI - DOJ illegal behavior. It's actually well documented public knowledge now.

It's merely a matter of how high it actually can be proven it went. I'm sure former President Obama will be insulated to an extent, but that is speculative on my part. In the end the only way to know how many were involved, how it unfolded, who were the leaders and are there those still in government positions that are a threat to the Constitution is to open up a full blown investigation with broad sweeping powers.

After all, this isn't a traffic ticket we are talking about here, it is an attempt to destroy the Constitution and deprive the Citizens of their rights to self govern.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

I see nothing hysterical by calling it what it overwhelmingly appears to have been, a failed Coup d'etat.

Honestly, one cannot simply ignore the texts from Page, Strozk, the Documents from McCabe and texts, the direct statements from Page as well as texts on Loretta Lynch's knowledge and authorization of the operation that included the dossier, Sally Yates role is the another key connection to the joint FBI - DOJ illegal behavior. It's actually well documented public knowledge now.

It's merely a matter of how high it actually can be proven it went. I'm sure former President Obama will be insulated to an extent, but that is speculative on my part. In the end the only way to know how many were involved, how it unfolded, who were the leaders and are there those still in government positions that are a threat to the Constitution is to open up a full blown investigation with broad sweeping powers.

After all, this isn't a traffic ticket we are talking about here, it is an attempt to destroy the Constitution and deprive the Citizens of their rights to self govern.

So right after James Comey knee capped Hillary's campaign he then tried a coup? Ok! 

 

And Trump appointed the guy who was going to carry it out?? Ok! 

[Scottysabres]

23 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

So right after James Comey knee capped Hillary's campaign he then tried a coup? Ok! 

 

And Trump appointed the guy who was going to carry it out?? Ok! 

I see no mention of either of these individuals names in my listing. You injected them. But since you did, sure, investigate that as well.

As I said, broad sweeping investigation powers.

Edit: oh, and since you brought it up, there is absolutely 0 evidence Coney re-opening the Clinton email investigation swayed the Electorate. 0. That is all talking pundits, the same pundits I might add that said Hillary would win in a land slide.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Scottysabres

[drnkirishone]

20 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

.Edit: oh, and since you brought it up, there is absolutely 0 evidence Coney re-opening the Clinton email investigation swayed the Electorate.

So we now live in a world that believes Comey had zero impact on the election with that announcement. Lol ok sure. I suppose the next step is to say that trump overcame the advantage the FBI gave the Clinton campaign by announcing the re-opening of the email investigation.

[North Buffalo]

It is interesting, the timing of the Comey announcement hurt HRC no doubt, it reinforced a narrative that she was less than forth coming, ironic, but effective.  HRC had no ability, both timing wise and strategically from her campaign to respond.  Still think he campaign made some strategic on the ground blunders that hurt more, especially in Iowa, WI and Minn despite the DC spin which to me always overplays its signicance in the last two weeks of a campaign.  It was lost in August and early September imo.

[LGR4GM]

Lol Mitch McConnell brings hypocrisy to new heights. He's honestly awful. 

[Scottysabres]

“Over the years, thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country, and thousands more lives will be lost if we don’t act right now,”

~ President Donald J. Trump

Between 2011 and 2017 in Texas, alone, there were 1,167 homicide charges and convictions against illegal aliens against US Citizens. That is just Texas. United States Citizens are LOSING THEIR LIVES, and the Democrat Party, ALL OF THEM that support SANCTURARY ENCLAVES are ACCESSORIES TO MURDER!

https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

You can hate President Trump all you want, but the FACTS, do not LIE!

Democrats are complicit in the MURDER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.

[SwampD]

41 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

“Over the years, thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country, and thousands more lives will be lost if we don’t act right now,”

~ President Donald J. Trump

Between 2011 and 2017 in Texas, alone, there were 1,167 homicide charges and convictions against illegal aliens against US Citizens. That is just Texas. United States Citizens are LOSING THEIR LIVES, and the Democrat Party, ALL OF THEM that support SANCTURARY ENCLAVES are ACCESSORIES TO MURDER!

https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

You can hate President Trump all you want, but the FACTS, do not LIE!

Democrats are complicit in the MURDER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.

Would you just stop?

[SABRES 0311]

14 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

“Over the years, thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country, and thousands more lives will be lost if we don’t act right now,”

~ President Donald J. Trump

Between 2011 and 2017 in Texas, alone, there were 1,167 homicide charges and convictions against illegal aliens against US Citizens. That is just Texas. United States Citizens are LOSING THEIR LIVES, and the Democrat Party, ALL OF THEM that support SANCTURARY ENCLAVES are ACCESSORIES TO MURDER!

https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

You can hate President Trump all you want, but the FACTS, do not LIE!

Democrats are complicit in the MURDER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.

https://www.justicedemocrats.com/

Don’t worry, progressives say the world will end in 12 years anyway. 

Link is a good read.

[Weave]

21 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

“Over the years, thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country, and thousands more lives will be lost if we don’t act right now,”

~ President Donald J. Trump

Between 2011 and 2017 in Texas, alone, there were 1,167 homicide charges and convictions against illegal aliens against US Citizens. That is just Texas. United States Citizens are LOSING THEIR LIVES, and the Democrat Party, ALL OF THEM that support SANCTURARY ENCLAVES are ACCESSORIES TO MURDER!

https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

You can hate President Trump all you want, but the FACTS, do not LIE!

Democrats are complicit in the MURDER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.

 

LOL, you still taking the word of a man who thinks the sound that wind turbines produce causes cancer?

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

 

LOL, you still taking the word of a man who thinks the sound that wind turbines produce causes cancer?

Texas dept. of Public Safety is hardly one man, but, why don't you ask the family members, the kids, of those US Citizens that lost their lives because...…………...well because Democrats are death dealers. I mean, honestly, I got nothing else on it, the policies they support, taking human life after birth, allowing illegal aliens to remain in country via non cooperation with agencies we pay for to protect us taking Citizens lives. Ya, I'm comfortable saying go ask them how they feel. But, I suspect not 1 Democrat supporter or those who support those policies have the balls to do so. It's so much easier to kill from behind the curtain, where you can't see that actual damage that's done, unless of course it's one of their own.

Loyalty to an ideology over loyalty to the nation, as a whole. That street goes both ways I guess.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Scottysabres

[Weave]

39 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Texas dept. of Public Safety is hardly one man, but, why don't you ask the family members, the kids, of those US Citizens that lost their lives because...…………...well because Democrats are death dealers. I mean, honestly, I got nothing else on it, the policies they support, taking human life after birth, allowing illegal aliens to remain in country via non cooperation with agencies we pay for to protect us taking Citizens lives. Ya, I'm comfortable saying go ask them how they feel. But, I suspect not 1 Democrat supporter or those who support those policies have the balls to do so. It's so much easier to kill from behind the curtain, where you can't see that actual damage that's done, unless of course it's one of their own.

Loyalty to an ideology over loyalty to the nation, as a whole. That street goes both ways I guess.

Here is what real conservatives have to say about crime and illegal immigrants.

https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immigrants-crime-assessing-evidence

 

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

Here is what real conservatives have to say about crime and illegal immigrants.

https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immigrants-crime-assessing-evidence

 

Oh, I see, the "but it's proven illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crime" defense is such a crock of crap. The moment they entered the country illegally, they broke the law.

And if they hadn't broke the law to enter the nation, how many of those United States Citizens, and, in some cases, legally visiting tourists, would still be alive? Let's ask them...………...oh wait, we can't, because they're dead, from a crime that originated at the border, crossing it illegally. So, what about their rights as Citizens, what about future victims, their families and those who care about them? They pay to be protected, through taxes no less. They have put individuals in position of public office to foster policy that does just that, only wait, one of the political parties in the nation have decided Citizens rights ARE NOT above those who break the law to enter the nation illegally.

Trying to defend a policy that takes even just 1 citizens life, is in essence saying, they were expendable for the greater good of a policy that had no greater good for them. The fact is, citizens, a lot more than you'd like to admit to, are seriously concerned about this issue for a variety of reasons that deal specifically with negative impacts on those of us who are, in point of fact, citizens. Murder, silences the voice of a citizen, in a situation where it is preventable. I could say something like it's offensive that people defend this nonsense with regards to sanctuary towns, cities, counties, states, since it puts myself and my family at an unnecessary risk, but it would only fall on deaf ears since the Democrat Party, their members, supporters and allies have made it 100% clear the rights of the illegal alien comes before the rights of actual citizens, and they could care less if citizens lose their lives.

As a matter of fact, it's to the point where if an illegal takes a Caucasian's life in this country, it's celebrated by Democrats. That is where I am at with all that is going on in this nation right now. So, remind me again with the numbers where they are factually at, and that's just Texas, nation wide the numbers haven't been fully accounted yet, why my family, friends, peers should just say well, if lose a loved one, their only a Caucasian, so it's no big deal? And I use the Caucasian race as an example, so it wouldn't appear as though I was using another race or ethnicity to "boost" my view of the issue. The reality is, American Citizens are being put at unnecessary risk, there is no denying this, and there is no excuse for it. If a wall helps prevent it, then build the dam wall.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Scottysabres

[Weave]

Maybe you should consider moving to a country that uses wall for security.  Here's a list.

Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Turkey, China, Nicaragua, Egypt, Estonia, Thailand, Hungary, Kashmir, Iran, N. Korea, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Israel, and USA.

There is not a single freedom respecting country in that list. 

If only it saved one life..... the hypocrisy of that line is precious.  What other freedoms do you want to extend that line of reasoning to?

Free movement along borders is a hallmark of freedom.  I can't think of better example of an authoritarian government than one that shuts out border movement.  We've already discussed legal immigration in this thread.  It's damned near non-existent unless you are a member of a recruited class. 

You are the antithesis of a libertarian.  You are an authoritarian. And that is exactly the kind of government we had a revolutionary war against.

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Weave

[LTS]

On 4/5/2019 at 10:15 PM, Scottysabres said:

“Over the years, thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country, and thousands more lives will be lost if we don’t act right now,”

~ President Donald J. Trump

Between 2011 and 2017 in Texas, alone, there were 1,167 homicide charges and convictions against illegal aliens against US Citizens. That is just Texas. United States Citizens are LOSING THEIR LIVES, and the Democrat Party, ALL OF THEM that support SANCTURARY ENCLAVES are ACCESSORIES TO MURDER!

https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txCriminalAlienStatistics.htm

You can hate President Trump all you want, but the FACTS, do not LIE!

Democrats are complicit in the MURDER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.

Help me out.  The article you quote is not entirely clear on what numbers in each section are duplicated and which are not.  It seems the last number in the article, 1,138 convictions of homicide is the most inclusive.  However, this data does not delineate on the victim of the crime does it?

As such, the victim could be another person who illegally entered the country, right?

 

12 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Texas dept. of Public Safety is hardly one man, but, why don't you ask the family members, the kids, of those US Citizens that lost their lives because...…………...well because Democrats are death dealers. I mean, honestly, I got nothing else on it, the policies they support, taking human life after birth, allowing illegal aliens to remain in country via non cooperation with agencies we pay for to protect us taking Citizens lives. Ya, I'm comfortable saying go ask them how they feel. But, I suspect not 1 Democrat supporter or those who support those policies have the balls to do so. It's so much easier to kill from behind the curtain, where you can't see that actual damage that's done, unless of course it's one of their own.

Loyalty to an ideology over loyalty to the nation, as a whole. That street goes both ways I guess.

See above. 

Could not an argument be made that those who support less restrictive gun ownership laws also then support those who would use such weapons to commit murder? Certainly not all gun owners commit crimes, but then not all illegal immigrants commit crimes either do they?  If we ask the families of victims of gun violence would we not expect similar responses?

10 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Oh, I see, the "but it's proven illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crime" defense is such a crock of crap. The moment they entered the country illegally, they broke the law.

And if they hadn't broke the law to enter the nation, how many of those United States Citizens, and, in some cases, legally visiting tourists, would still be alive? Let's ask them...………...oh wait, we can't, because they're dead, from a crime that originated at the border, crossing it illegally. So, what about their rights as Citizens, what about future victims, their families and those who care about them? They pay to be protected, through taxes no less. They have put individuals in position of public office to foster policy that does just that, only wait, one of the political parties in the nation have decided Citizens rights ARE NOT above those who break the law to enter the nation illegally.

Trying to defend a policy that takes even just 1 citizens life, is in essence saying, they were expendable for the greater good of a policy that had no greater good for them. The fact is, citizens, a lot more than you'd like to admit to, are seriously concerned about this issue for a variety of reasons that deal specifically with negative impacts on those of us who are, in point of fact, citizens. Murder, silences the voice of a citizen, in a situation where it is preventable. I could say something like it's offensive that people defend this nonsense with regards to sanctuary towns, cities, counties, states, since it puts myself and my family at an unnecessary risk, but it would only fall on deaf ears since the Democrat Party, their members, supporters and allies have made it 100% clear the rights of the illegal alien comes before the rights of actual citizens, and they could care less if citizens lose their lives.

As a matter of fact, it's to the point where if an illegal takes a Caucasian's life in this country, it's celebrated by Democrats. That is where I am at with all that is going on in this nation right now. So, remind me again with the numbers where they are factually at, and that's just Texas, nation wide the numbers haven't been fully accounted yet, why my family, friends, peers should just say well, if lose a loved one, their only a Caucasian, so it's no big deal? And I use the Caucasian race as an example, so it wouldn't appear as though I was using another race or ethnicity to "boost" my view of the issue. The reality is, American Citizens are being put at unnecessary risk, there is no denying this, and there is no excuse for it. If a wall helps prevent it, then build the dam wall.

See above.  The right to gun ownership and defending that policy would fall into what you have stated.  

Please support your claim of Democrats celebrating murder.  Also, the crime numbers as I pointed out above do not appear to delineate on illegal immigrants killing each other and they certainly do not delineate the victims based on race.  Your use of race here is immaterial to the point you are trying to make, you even say so, but yet you use it and you choose to use violence against Caucausians when as far as you know, they could have been the least impacted race in the statistics provided.

A wall may limit the number of illegals entering the country, but it won't eliminate it.  Just as gun laws may limit the number of gun deaths, but it won't prevent them.  Do you support more restrictive gun ownership laws?

Because even legal gun owners do really stupid things like this event that happened while I was in Arkansas last week:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arkansas-men-shoot-at-each-other-while-wearing-bulletproof-vests-police

 

 

[SABRES 0311]

Spend the money on more CBP agents, tech and upgrading existing infrastructure. If after two years the new data compared to the current data doesn’t show improvement then revisit the wall. 

It didn’t get built the last two years and won’t in the next two. Both sides argue about what the current data says so log where we are at now and wait and see how upgrades to what we have now affects the issue. 

Both sides have good ideas and a physical barrier is one. However you need the personnel and tools as well. Can’t all be done at once and should be phased anyway.

On a related issue ICE should not be abolished. Anyone who came here illegally or overstays their Visa is breaking the law. They are not US citizens just because they are standing in US soil. Beat cops have enough to deal with so they cannot devote their time to looking for those here illegally. CBP takes the border and ICE finds the ones who squeak through. I get the majority of these people are fleeing violence from cartels and economic nightmares but the answer isn’t run to the US. They have to take back their countries. Otherwise more of their countrymen, families and generations will suffer. I see plenty of able bodied men in these caravans. They need to do what is necessary, not run away. Just my two cents. 

 

[Weave]

30 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Spend the money on more CBP agents, tech and upgrading existing infrastructure. If after two years the new data compared to the current data doesn’t show improvement then revisit the wall. 

It didn’t get built the last two years and won’t in the next two. Both sides argue about what the current data says so log where we are at now and wait and see how upgrades to what we have now affects the issue. 

Both sides have good ideas and a physical barrier is one. However you need the personnel and tools as well. Can’t all be done at once and should be phased anyway.

On a related issue ICE should not be abolished. Anyone who came here illegally or overstays their Visa is breaking the law. They are not US citizens just because they are standing in US soil. Beat cops have enough to deal with so they cannot devote their time to looking for those here illegally. CBP takes the border and ICE finds the ones who squeak through. I get the majority of these people are fleeing violence from cartels and economic nightmares but the answer isn’t run to the US. They have to take back their countries. Otherwise more of their countrymen, families and generations will suffer. I see plenty of able bodied men in these caravans. They need to do what is necessary, not run away. Just my two cents. 

 

You do realize that every bit of published data on illegal entry into the country and crime committed by both legal and illegal immigrants has been trending downward for many years, right?  This is a solution in search of a problem.  Offered by" proponents of smaller government" no less.

[SABRES 0311]

9 minutes ago, Weave said:

You do realize that every bit of published data on illegal entry into the country and crime committed by both legal and illegal immigrants has been trending downward for many years, right?  This is a solution in search of a problem.  Offered by" proponents of smaller government" no less.

Wow no winning with you. I offer to go with no wall unless it’s proven other methods don’t work. I also said both sides argue over what the data says. I never said which I agree with. While I do not claim I have the perfect answer I only offer one of likely many paths. In fact I would like a solution that is other than a wall. But if it’s proven that all other means do not work without it then we go from there. 

[Sabel79]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I get the majority of these people are fleeing violence from cartels and economic nightmares but the answer isn’t run to the US. They have to take back their countries. Otherwise more of their countrymen, families and generations will suffer. I see plenty of able bodied men in these caravans. They need to do what is necessary, not run away. Just my two cents. 

 

Ask the Sandinista how that ended.  

 

18 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Wow no winning with you. I offer to go with no wall unless it’s proven other methods don’t work. I also said both sides argue over what the data says. I never said which I agree with. While I do not claim I have the perfect answer I only offer one of likely many paths. In fact I would like a solution that is other than a wall. But if it’s proven that all other means do not work without it then we go from there. 

 Not really what he's driving at.  As stated, numbers have been and were trending downward well before Trump's dog and pony show at the border started... why, then, is there suddenly an emergency requiring an enormous, and enormously expensive, response?  Shouldn't the factual evidence showing the improvement from our perspective indicate that what is in place now is achieving positive results?

[SABRES 0311]

4 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

Ask the Sandinista how that ended.  

 

 Not really what he's driving at.  As stated, numbers have been and were trending downward well before Trump's dog and pony show at the border started... why, then, is there suddenly an emergency requiring an enormous, and enormously expensive, response?  Shouldn't the factual evidence showing the improvement from our perspective indicate that what is in place now is achieving positive results?

I don’t know why now is when someone decided to make it an emergency. I haven’t been to the border myself. Perhaps it is the man’s interpretation of the situation or maybe he played the card to win over voters who do think there is an emergency. Pretty sure I said I’d like to not have to build a wall unless it was absolutely necessary. But if at some point those numbers go in the other direction and/or existing/upgraded measures fail then it’s back to the drawing board. 

I believe evil thrives on good people doing nothing. Clearly their politicians and police aren’t making their neighborhoods safe enough to not run away. The conversation is so focused on a wall not many talk about how to kill the root of the problem.