LGR4GM Posted July 11, 2018 Author Report Posted July 11, 2018 10 hours ago, ubkev said: I also specifically read into his comments on Roe vs Wade and I hope he means what he says about not being interested in flipping it. It's pretty much the only thing that I know I care about. What will happen is some state with an overly restrictive abortion law, like can only be done by a doctor who also works at a hospital or can't be done after week 8 or something, will be challenged and go to the Supreme Court. The justices will rule in favor of letting the restrictive law stand. These cases are already in progress. Thankfully, I don't live in a State where it will actually matter.
LGR4GM Posted July 11, 2018 Author Report Posted July 11, 2018 18 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: No it's not, and he's not demonizing brown people. "Brown people" are enjoying the current state of the country by any economic measure, some in record form. We will never agree on this point, mainly because the second sentence you wrote, enjoying the economy, is not at all what I am talking about.
Drunkard Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: I'd suggest looking more into that Paris Climate Accord, for what it's worth. He's also not getting impeached so I wouldn't get your hopes up for that He could easily get impeached if the Democrats win control of the House because it only takes a simple majority. He just won't be removed from office because there's almost no chance they get 67 Senate votes to remove him so it would really just be symbolic the way it was with Bill Clinton. Edited July 11, 2018 by Alkoholist
Randall Flagg Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, Alkoholist said: He could easily get impeached if the Democrats will control of the House because it only takes a simple majority. He just won't be removed from office because there's almost no chance they get 67 Senate votes to remove him so it would really just be symbolic the way it was with Bill Clinton. It's hard to be impeached without high crimes and misdemeanors. Should those someday come out of the Mueller stuff, then I'd be fine with it too. But right now, there are no grounds to do so.
WildCard Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: It's hard to be impeached without high crimes and misdemeanors. Should those someday come out of the Mueller stuff, then I'd be fine with it too. But right now, there are no grounds to do so. Everyone he's close to or hired has been indicted, no?
Randall Flagg Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, WildCard said: Everyone he's close to or hired has been indicted, no? I think he's gotten four indictments of people that were working with Trump. Legally speaking, what we have isn't enough to impeach Trump. I haven't even been convinced yet that Trump himself was actively involved in a collusion process, which is what it would take, I think he's too dumb for that. But if Mueller finds it out, then I'll change my tune. Or if Trump nefariously stops Mueller from continuing the investigation, then that would be worthy of it. As always, I need to see those things happen before I'm ready for impeachment, and it's my personal belief that we won't.
WildCard Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I think he's gotten four indictments of people that were working with Trump. Legally speaking, what we have isn't enough to impeach Trump. I haven't even been convinced yet that Trump himself was actively involved in a collusion process, which is what it would take, I think he's too dumb for that. But if Mueller finds it out, then I'll change my tune. Or if Trump nefariously stops Mueller from continuing the investigation, then that would be worthy of it. As always, I need to see those things happen before I'm ready for impeachment, and it's my personal belief that we won't. Pretty sure he already tried to fire him Edit: Yes, he did https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/us/politics/trump-sought-to-fire-mueller-in-december.html Edited July 11, 2018 by WildCard
Randall Flagg Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 1 minute ago, WildCard said: Pretty sure he already tried to fire him Unsurprising, but he didn't end up doing it, and I'm pretty sure he was told why it was a bad idea. The guy is dumb, and he's not trying to cover this massive conspiratorial trail. Even the indictments that Mueller has gotten concern them lying to the FBI (which is certainly a crime), without trying covering up an actual crime (conspiracy and collusion are different animals), Mueller has nothing on DJT actually committing a crime himself yet, and until he produces that evidence which to this point doesn't exist, impeachment is going to be an emotionally charged but substance-less noise-bomb and nothing more
JujuFish Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: Mueller has nothing on DJT actually committing a crime himself yet, and until he produces that evidence which to this point doesn't exist, impeachment is going to be an emotionally charged but substance-less noise-bomb and nothing more Unlike Comey, Mueller is tight-lipped, so neither you nor I have any idea what evidence he has accrued in his investigation.
Randall Flagg Posted July 11, 2018 Report Posted July 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, JujuFish said: Unlike Comey, Mueller is tight-lipped, so neither you nor I have any idea what evidence he has accrued in his investigation. For sure, you caught me conflating facts with what I think is going to happen there.
WildCard Posted July 12, 2018 Report Posted July 12, 2018 17 hours ago, Eleven said: How much time do you have? I'd like to hear your thoughts
Eleven Posted July 12, 2018 Report Posted July 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, WildCard said: I'd like to hear your thoughts I'd love to share them. Maybe this weekend I'll find the time to do it?
bob_sauve28 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 8:29 AM, LGR4GM said: Shall we begin? He is just horrible. Is he really going to still meet with Putin?
bob_sauve28 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/11/2018 at 1:32 PM, Randall Flagg said: Unsurprising, but he didn't end up doing it, and I'm pretty sure he was told why it was a bad idea. The guy is dumb, and he's not trying to cover this massive conspiratorial trail. Even the indictments that Mueller has gotten concern them lying to the FBI (which is certainly a crime), without trying covering up an actual crime (conspiracy and collusion are different animals), Mueller has nothing on DJT actually committing a crime himself yet, and until he produces that evidence which to this point doesn't exist, impeachment is going to be an emotionally charged but substance-less noise-bomb and nothing more He obviously obstructed justice, but he won't be impeached for that. Why was he obstructing justice, though? That's the real question.
Eleven Posted July 13, 2018 Report Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said: He is just horrible. Is he really going to still meet with Putin? Of course he is going to meet with his master. The real problem is that he's going to do it alone. 2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said: He obviously obstructed justice, but he won't be impeached for that. Why was he obstructing justice, though? That's the real question. He might be impeached, depending on the composition of Congress next January. He certainly won't be convicted. The Senate won't flip in 2018. Look, Republicans have been upset since Watergate. They do everything in their power to try to obstruct, and always will, until they get a Dem to "hang." They tried so hard with Bill Clinton, but it didn't work. And Bill and Hillary might be crooked, might not, but they were investigated for 24 years. Twenty-four. And ongoing. So I don't want to hear complaints from Cheeto Benito about the current investigation. Then their appeal to religious Americans stopped working, too. So they put up the least religious, most sinful worshipper of Mammon that anyone anywhere could find. Three wives, cheats on 'em with porn stars, pays for abortions, owns brothels, grabs 'em by the p-u-s-s-y , whatever. The "party of Christianity" doesn't care anymore. Let's just get mean and f*ck with poor people and people who aren't white. Let's just GO! LET'S GO, MAN, GO! RICH WHITE PEOPLE FTW! Republicans are the f$cking worms of the world. Telling people "it's about Jesus" for forty years and then putting up this guy. Taro, I love you, but you can't defend this. Edited July 14, 2018 by Eleven 1
Drunkard Posted July 14, 2018 Report Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eleven said: Of course he is going to meet with his master. The real problem is that he's going to do it alone. He might be impeached, depending on the composition of Congress next January. He certainly won't be convicted. The Senate won't flip in 2018. Look, Republicans have been upset since Watergate. They do everything in their power to try to obstruct, and always will, until they get a Dem to "hang." They tried so hard with Bill Clinton, but it didn't work. And Bill and Hillary might be crooked, might not, but they were investigated for 24 years. Twenty-four. And ongoing. So I don't want to hear complaints from Cheeto Benito about the current investigation. Then their appeal to religious Americans stopped working, too. So they put up the least religious, most sinful worshipper of Mammon that anyone anywhere could find. Three wives, cheats on 'em with porn stars, pays for abortions, owns brothels, grabs 'em by the p-u-s-s-y , whatever. The "party of Christianity" doesn't care anymore. Let's just get mean and f*ck with poor people and people who aren't white. Let's just GO! LET'S GO, MAN, GO! RICH WHITE PEOPLE FTW! Republicans are the f$cking worms of the world. Telling people "it's about Jesus" for forty years and then putting up this guy. Taro, I love you, but you can't defend this. Evangelicals seem happy enough to look the other way in exchange for Conservative judges. The moment Trump agreed to only select judges from their pre-approved list they hitched their wagons to him. I doubt they're unhappy with the results so far. Edited July 14, 2018 by Alkoholist
Taro T Posted July 14, 2018 Report Posted July 14, 2018 4 hours ago, Eleven said: Of cou,nse he is going to meet with his master. The real problem is that he's going to do it alone. He might be impeached, depending on the composition of Congresis next January. He certainly won't be convicted. The Senate won't flip in 2018. Look, Republicans have been upset since Watergate. They do everything in their power to try to obstruct, and always will, until they get a Dem to "hang." They tried so hard with Bill Clinton, but it didn't work. And Bill and Hillary might be crooked, might not, but they were investigated for 24 years. Twenty-four. And ongoing. So I don't want to hear complaints from Cheeto Benito about the current investigation. Then their appeal to religious Americans stopped working, too. So they put up the least religious, most sinful worshipper of Mammon that anyone anywhere could find. Three wives, cheats on 'em with porn stars, pays for abortions, owns brothels, grabs 'em by the p-u-s-s-y , whatever. The "party of Christianity" doesn't care anymore. Let's just get mean and f*ck with poor people and people who aren't white. Let's just GO! LET'S GO, MAN, GO! RICH WHITE PEOPLE FTW! Republicans are the f$cking worms of the world. Telling people "it's about Jesus" for forty years and then putting up this guy. Taro, I love you, but you can't defend this. Have you read any of DR's threads on the PPP board? He lays a lot of this out FAR better than I could. This IS NOT left v right (check his posts from 3 years ago for verification), this is Americans that believe in the ideal vs those that want to rule us all. (And FYI guys that I believed in, sold us out too. I'm as confused as you are, but I love this country & believe we can/will work this out.)
North Buffalo Posted July 14, 2018 Report Posted July 14, 2018 Trump is a pain, even when I agree with what he is trying to do, strengthen border control, fairer trade (our trade agreements suck)… he goes about it in such a narcissistic, foul mouthed way that I can't even listen to him anymore. He is not a leader in quite the opposite way that Obama was not a leader. Obama didn't like to get out a criticize people directly and when he did, it seemed... meh. Trump does it so nastily and doesn't have any couth. He doesn't share credit unless it is inappropriately with dictators like Putin and North Korean guy that it makes your stomach turn. Not sure there is much else I can say. His economic policies are so hap hazard, they make little sense and his trade actions while imo in the correct direction don't work the way he is implementing them. I don't think he realizes the connection between the results his actions will have on the economy and how he is going about it with all his actions by fiat. Meh...
Eleven Posted July 14, 2018 Report Posted July 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Taro T said: Have you read any of DR's threads on the PPP board? He lays a lot of this out FAR better than I could. This IS NOT left v right (check his posts from 3 years ago for verification), this is Americans that believe in the ideal vs those that want to rule us all. (And FYI guys that I believed in, sold us out too. I'm as confused as you are, but I love this country & believe we can/will work this out.) I have not; if you want to post a link to one or two that you think are particularly illustrative of DR's (whoever that person is) points, I'd be happy to look at them.
Taro T Posted July 14, 2018 Report Posted July 14, 2018 https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/191395-the-deep-state-war-heats-up-ph34r/?page=137&tab=comments#comment-5180807 The 2nd post on this page linked above is a good one, (pretty sure the link takes you to a post further down the page; can't figure out how to get it to link to the correct post; sorry) but very long w/ a lot of links embedded, to give a good overview of what's been going on. I realize thatit will seem rather conspiracy theory-ish. Thing is, stuff he's been posting since at least November of '16 which seemed outlandish at first has born out to happen.
5th line wingnutt Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 6:05 PM, bob_sauve28 said: He obviously obstructed justice, but he won't be impeached for that. Why was he obstructing justice, though? That's the real question. Not obvious to me. Please explain.
Eleven Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 18 hours ago, Taro T said: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/191395-the-deep-state-war-heats-up-ph34r/?page=137&tab=comments#comment-5180807 The 2nd post on this page linked above is a good one, (pretty sure the link takes you to a post further down the page; can't figure out how to get it to link to the correct post; sorry) but very long w/ a lot of links embedded, to give a good overview of what's been going on. I realize thatit will seem rather conspiracy theory-ish. Thing is, stuff he's been posting since at least November of '16 which seemed outlandish at first has born out to happen. I have no idea what that had to do with what I posted; sorry. It does come off as conspiracy theory. For a minute, I thought we had identified "Q."
atoq Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 That conspiracy theory post on TBD is nonsense. I'm totally against unlimited and unsupervised government surveillance, by whichever party is in power, but the jump from that to politically motivated spying and an elaborate deep state conspiracy doesn't seem to have any evidence. Timelines aren't evidence, and it's easy to show a very incriminating timeline about Trump's collusion, but supported by a wealth of evidence and indictments. The fundamental flaw of this conspiracy theory is: why, after going through all of this trouble to monitor campaign communications, hire intelligence consultants and set up elaborate schemes to 'entrap' Trump campaign officials, why wasn't information released publicly to sway the election? The Steele dossier was finished at the end of October and wasn't released until after the election. If they wanted to improperly affect the election, this information certainly would have been leaked. Meanwhile, Republicans, through the threat of leaks out of the NY FBI office and NYPD, managed to put enough pressure on Comey to announce the reopening of the investigation into Hillary's emails, which completely changed the complexion of the election (I hope they release private texts from that office like they did with strzok's). The FBI was investigating both campaigns but only publicly announced one of those investigations. Now people are trying to claim there is a conspiracy against the one campaign the FBI didn't publicly damage? That's a ludicrous idea. Question to republicans including the 'deep state' believers here: if Mueller's report directly states that Trump colluded with Russia, will you accept those results? If that is the conclusion, what would be the ideal next steps for the good of the country. I'm amazed at the mental gymnastics and head burying on the right to avoid the fairly obvious conclusion about what happened, and is still happening. Seemingly intelligent people are buying into wacky conspiracy theories because they are so invested in their ideological side. To respond to another post above: if you say obstruction of Justice isn't obvious, you haven't been paying attention. Trump admitted to it on national television when he explained why he fired Comey, among countless other examples. 2
bob_sauve28 Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 22 hours ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Not obvious to me. Please explain. What don't you understand? Do you know the facts?
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