The Politics of Gender

[That Aud Smell]

When the gay rights movement was having a "moment" a few years ago, I was a full-blown cheerleader. And I continue to be. I have many gay friends. I know several gay couples -- married and otherwise -- who are raising children. I completely support, and intuitively understand, their inherent rights to associate with the person they love in the precise same way that I associate with the person I love.

The transgender issue is trickier for me, though. For many reasons, I think.

Perhaps most fundamentally, the hang-up I've long had is that there is, on the one hand, a philosophy to which I long ascribed that essentially says "hey, those GI dolls (or, whatever, that American FOOTBALL helmet) aren't necessarily JUST for your son, and those dress-up dolls (or, whatever, that make-up) aren't necessarily JUST for your girl -- there's plenty of room within each gender for a full expression of "masculine" and "feminine" behaviors. A super "effeminate" boy is just as fine and wonderful as a super "butch" girl.

"Straight, not narrow," as it's often said.

The trans movement, though, seems rooted in a simultaneous insistence on gender having no definition, but also being rooted in gender being very much a divided house. If you're a boy who *feels* every bit like a girl, what does that mean? It means, what? Often, that you feel drawn to loving men? Because that's something that (only) women do? Does it mean that you want to wear a flowery sun skirt and crop top, and put on some makeup? Because that's something that only women do?

Do you see where I'm getting with that? It seems that the trans individual's desire to be of a certain gender is rooted in a fixed way of viewing gender. Which is just ... more than merely ironic. 

I'm truly not intending to be insensitive. I may just be ignorant.

In my view, if you're a girl who feels in every signifiable way that you are really a boy, then you can just go ahead and be the most boyish girl in town (and vice versa). 

 

 

[Randall Flagg]

If you don't mind I'd like to tack on a question: Do all transgender people have gender dysphoria by definition? If not, what's the difference? 

[darksabre]

11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

When the gay rights movement was having a "moment" a few years ago, I was a full-blown cheerleader. And I continue to be. I have many gay friends. I know several gay couples -- married and otherwise -- who are raising children. I completely support, and intuitively understand, their inherent rights to associate with the person they love in the precise same way that I associate with the person I love.

The transgender issue is trickier for me, though. For many reasons, I think.

Perhaps most fundamentally, the hang-up I've long had is that there is, on the one hand, a philosophy to which I long ascribed that essentially says "hey, those GI dolls (or, whatever, that American FOOTBALL helmet) aren't necessarily JUST for your son, and those dress-up dolls (or, whatever, that make-up) aren't necessarily JUST for your girl -- there's plenty of room within each gender for a full expression of "masculine" and "feminine" behaviors. A super "effeminate" boy is just as fine and wonderful as a super "butch" girl.

"Straight, not narrow," as it's often said.

The trans movement, though, seems rooted in a simultaneous insistence on gender having no definition, but also being rooted in gender being very much a divided house. If you're a boy who *feels* every bit like a girl, what does that mean? It means, what? Often, that you feel drawn to loving men? Because that's something that (only) women do? Does it mean that you want to wear a flowery sun skirt and crop top, and put on some makeup? Because that's something that only women do?

Do you see where I'm getting with that? It seems that the trans individual's desire to be of a certain gender is rooted in a fixed way of viewing gender. Which is just ... more than merely ironic. 

I'm truly not intending to be insensitive. I may just be ignorant.

In my view, if you're a girl who feels in every signifiable way that you are really a boy, then you can just go ahead and be the most boyish girl in town (and vice versa). 

 

 

@josie's understanding of this is way better than mine, so I'll tag her and see if she wants to join in. 

But I will tell you one thing: transgender people are some of the most confident people I have ever met. I know several now who have gone through reassignment surgery and there is not a more certain person on this planet. 

It really has nothing to do with who you are attracted to. It's just about how you feel about who you are. I think it's something that is very hard for people like you and me to understand. I cannot fathom being so confident that I would be willing to have massive surgery. But trans people are. They get to a point where simply being a boyish girl is not enough. They feel straight up trapped in their own bodies. 

I can't even begin to imagine what that feels like. I am not them. 

[That Aud Smell]

7 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It really has nothing to do with who you are attracted to. It's just about how you feel about who you are. I think it's something that is very hard for people like you and me to understand. I cannot fathom being so confident that I would be willing to have massive surgery. But trans people are. They get to a point where simply being a boyish girl is not enough. They feel straight up trapped in their own bodies. 

I can't even begin to imagine what that feels like. I am not them. 

Good to know that it's generally not about sexual attraction.

To the other point: Whence those feelings? From societal cues about what it means to be a boy and what it means to be a girl? It  seems like there's a way in which the reassignment effort -- however confidently undertaken -- is almost a  capitulation to rigid structures that need not be endorsed.

Edited July 5, 2018 by That Aud Smell

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Good to know that it's generally not about sexual attraction.

To the other point: Whence those feelings? From societal cues about what it means to be a boy and what it means to be a girl? It  seems like there's a way in which the reassignment effort -- however confidently undertaken -- is almost a  capitulation to rigid structures that need not be endorsed.

Well, I think we're kinda confusing two issues. Gender fluidity is a separate thing from your sex. There's a huge movement right now around recognizing the wide spectrum of gender types. Most of us are probably a little gender fluid but are comfortable with our biological sex bits. But a lot of transgender people are the opposite: not gender fluid, but completely out of sorts with their physical body. You can be a girl who likes boys who feels like she absolutely needs to be a boy physically. Aye? 

Edited July 5, 2018 by darksabre

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

Well, I think we're kinda confusing two issues. Gender fluidity is a separate thing from your sex. There's a huge movement right now around recognizing the wide spectrum of gender types. Most of us are probably a little gender fluid but are comfortable with our biological sex bits. But a lot of transgender people are the opposite: not gender fluid, but completely out of sorts with their physical body. You can be a girl who likes boys who feels like she absolutely needs to be a boy physically. Aye? 

I'm a bit lost already, I think.

I continue to ask: Why?

Can't/shouldn't gender fluidity (girlish boys, butch girls) be brought to bear?

Isn't the dysphoria a product, at least in some significant part, of the values, roles, modes, behaviours that society ascribes to a certain gender?

 

[Samson's Flow]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm a bit lost already, I think.

I continue to ask: Why?

Can't/shouldn't gender fluidity (girlish boys, butch girls) be brought to bear?

Isn't the dysphoria a product, at least in some significant part, of the values, roles, modes, behaviours that society ascribes to a certain gender?

 

Smell - I have a lot of the same questions you do, and am glad you are voicing them appropriately. I'm all for people being whoever it is they want to be, but on this issue I often struggle with what exactly it is that is the end goal. To not be ostracized for dressing differently or acting outside of the societal norm for "boy" and "girl"? Or is it something more that I just can't relate to since I am perfectly happy being a traditional male?

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm a bit lost already, I think.

I continue to ask: Why?

Can't/shouldn't gender fluidity (girlish boys, butch girls) be brought to bear?

Isn't the dysphoria a product, at least in some significant part, of the values, roles, modes, behaviours that society ascribes to a certain gender?

 

Gender dysphoria, sure. Gender norms are typically social constructs. 

Think of transgender as being straight up biologically put together wrong. A whole bunch of things happened to make you come out with the parts you have. But you never feel comfortable with those parts. It has basically nothing to do with gender norms and social learning. You're just straight up born wrong. 

I'm not sure we have the scientific research available to really completely explain the phenomenon. 

2 minutes ago, Samson's Flow said:

Smell - I have a lot of the same questions you do, and am glad you are voicing them appropriately. I'm all for people being whoever it is they want to be, but on this issue I often struggle with what exactly it is that is the end goal. To not be ostracized for dressing differently or acting outside of the societal norm for "boy" and "girl"? Or is it something more that I just can't relate to since I am perfectly happy being a traditional male?

This is how I understand it. Transgender people feel in a way about their physical shells that is almost inexplicable to someone like you or me. 

[Samson's Flow]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Gender dysphoria, sure. Gender norms are typically social constructs. 

Think of transgender as being straight up biologically put together wrong. A whole bunch of things happened to make you come out with the parts you have. But you never feel comfortable with those parts. It has basically nothing to do with gender norms and social learning. You're just straight up born wrong. 

I'm not sure we have the scientific research available to really completely explain the phenomenon. 

This is how I understand it. Transgender people feel in a way about their physical shells that is almost inexplicable to someone like you or me. 

So taking it to a logical extreme it would be like if I was born with a third arm in my back, and all my life I knew "I really shouldn't have this arm there", despite other people telling me that it's perfectly normal to have that there (logical fallacy in my hypothetical).

In that case I could definitely appreciate having the surgery to finally have the "right" parts to match with my personal perception, and how relieving that would be mentally.

We have enough body shaming/body issues topics to deal with in our current society. I can't imagine dealing with this on top of societal pressures.

[Randall Flagg]

18 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Well, I think we're kinda confusing two issues. Gender fluidity is a separate thing from your sex. There's a huge movement right now around recognizing the wide spectrum of gender types. Most of us are probably a little gender fluid but are comfortable with our biological sex bits. But a lot of transgender people are the opposite: not gender fluid, but completely out of sorts with their physical body. You can be a girl who likes boys who feels like she absolutely needs to be a boy physically. Aye? 

I think this is an unconvincing premise and where most of the politics of the issue come into play. I know a lot of conservatives and I've not met one who disagrees that gender dysphoria and transgenderism are real and important things. But every single one of them starts to get uncomfortable at lists like these: https://www.wattpad.com/341462536-complete-list-of-genders-the-complete-list-of-all (I have no idea what this source is ftr) and their bases in science, relevance/importance, etc while fully acknowledging that its an incredibly fringe part of the discussion.

And I know a lot of liberals who don't get into all of that stuff either, but some that are quite enthusiastic about it. But most just want people who are transgender to have rights/be happy etc. 

Which is a huge difference from the way I see the issue "supposedly" get play - that conservatives hate and bully transgender people into ludicrous suicide rates and liberals want to identify as attack helicopters and dispense from all norms rooted both in society and biology. 

[darksabre]

Just now, Samson's Flow said:

So taking it to a logical extreme it would be like if I was born with a third arm in my back, and all my life I knew "I really shouldn't have this arm there", despite other people telling me that it's perfectly normal to have that there (logical fallacy in my hypothetical).

In that case I could definitely appreciate having the surgery to finally have the "right" parts to match with my personal perception, and how relieving that would be mentally.

We have enough body shaming/body issues topics to deal with in our current society. I can't imagine dealing with this on top of societal pressures.

This is it in a nutshell. 

I have a friend right now who is exploring the whole thing. He's made the switch to identifying as a woman. He's never really been a happy guy and he certainly seems happier as they/she. I don't know if his plan is reassignment surgery but I could see it happening. I'm not about to tell him he's wrong, ya know? 

[Samson's Flow]

Just now, darksabre said:

This is it in a nutshell. 

I have a friend right now who is exploring the whole thing. He's made the switch to identifying as a woman. He's never really been a happy guy and he certainly seems happier as they/she. I don't know if his plan is reassignment surgery but I could see it happening. I'm not about to tell him he's wrong, ya know? 

For the record, the pronoun portion of this discussion confuses the crap out of me. It's tough not falling into an accidental landmine and appearing insensitive when relying on message board text on this one. I can see how celebrities/politicians can get into trouble with this topic.

[That Aud Smell]

10 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Think of transgender as being straight up biologically put together wrong. A whole bunch of things happened to make you come out with the parts you have. But you never feel comfortable with those parts. It has basically nothing to do with gender norms and social learning. You're just straight up born wrong. 

I'm not sure we have the scientific research available to really completely explain the phenomenon. 

This is how I understand it. Transgender people feel in a way about their physical shells that is almost inexplicable to someone like you or me. 

Yeah. When we amble up to the point of just feeling or knowing that you were born with the wrong parts -- that it's "inexplicable" -- I don't find the issue being carried for me.

Along with my socially liberal bents, I manage to pair a (mostly) abiding faith. I read Pope Francis's exhortation with interest, a while back.

Yet another challenge is posed by the various forms of an ideology of gender that “denies the difference and reciprocity in nature of a man and a woman and envisages a society without sexual differences, thereby eliminating the anthropological basis of the family. This ideology leads to educational programmes and legislative enactments that promote a personal identity and emotional intimacy radically separated from the biological difference between male and female. Consequently, human identity becomes the choice of the individual, one which can also change over time”. It is a source of concern that some ideologies of this sort, which seek to respond to what are at times understandable aspirations, manage to assert themselves as absolute and unquestionable, even dictating how children should be raised. It needs to be emphasized that “biological sex and the socio-cultural role of sex (gender) can be distinguished but not separated”.

1 minute ago, Samson's Flow said:

For the record, the pronoun portion of this discussion confuses the crap out of me. It's tough not falling into an accidental landmine and appearing insensitive when relying on message board text on this one. I can see how celebrities/politicians can get into trouble with this topic.

I've been bristling at this as well. It must be a sign that I am finally becoming an old, after holding out for so long.

My niece told me a few weeks ago that it was unfairly cis-normative of me to assume a particular person's gender.

I was just like, "listen, sister ... ."

I'm feeling like I need a center to hold. I need the falcon to hear the falconer.

[josie]

Holy whoa I leave for like a month or so and the whole place changes! 

 

I can get into details as it goes. First thing- I am not an authority- I am not trans. I do identify as somewhat gender fluid and bi- and they are very different things (see upthread about what you like vs what you feel you are). I can explain more if people want to know. I have several close friends who are trans, and they have educated me in much of what I have to say.  I saw the Vonn thing in the gen. discussion- first of all, aw c'mon don't hate, us muscly big girls rock.

A quick common misconception- that all trans people are gay. This'll be confusing- say my friend Rob* (pseudonym) is born Robin. He knows he's a dude, and eventually starts HRT (hormone therapy) and maybe down the line has gender reassignment surgery (that PRICEY and painful, yo- no one's just flippantly going in for that because of a fleeting feeling or to prove a point). Rob is into girls, dates people who ID as women. He's straight, not lesbian. It's a lot of semantics, and here's why it matters- it's validation. And it's easy to invalidate someone via ignorance, and it's even easier to just use their pronouns and let them live, as it's not harming anyone. 

Just now, Samson's Flow said:

For the record, the pronoun portion of this discussion confuses the crap out of me. It's tough not falling into an accidental landmine and appearing insensitive when relying on message board text on this one. I can see how celebrities/politicians can get into trouble with this topic.

It is tricky, and it's "new" to most people. Some people are real a$$holes about it. I think it's important to remember that just because someone is trans or an embattled minority doesn't mean they're a kind, patient, put-upon soul- they're people and react differently accordingly. 

But MOST will try to educate. Another side note- rudest/worst thing you can do (short of slurs) is use a trans person's "Dead Name". That's usually their given birth name. As above, don't call Rob by the name Robin. In many cases, these people grew up being treated like sh!t for being different, and coming out is a happier, more accepting part of their lives. Don't wanna go back to the dark times. 

Now, is there a glut of younger people identifying to the point of ridiculousness to be different (Hi welcome to my tumblr I'm 14 and a demisexual otherkin pan/fluid/psyvamp rutabaga and my pronouns are xi/xe/etc etc etc)? I think so- and that is tricky, because eh... easier to just ignore them. They tend to be the strawman argument used by people going "THIS SH!T IS RIDICULOUS BE A BOY OR BE A GIRL". 

 

It can be tricky. I had a few students who were trans, and at varying levels of "passing" (looks the gender they ID as). I had to really watch it and use the correct pronouns, but I slipped up once or twice and became a fuddling bumble trying to undo it. In those cases you could tell they were a bit disappointed but everyone gets a mulligan. They're aware that the mirror doesn't always reflect who they are inside, and they know the general populace is going to be that mirror. 

Sorry, I ramble. I admit, I mostly left the board for a bit because I was just getting so heated every other thread with what I see as borderline to sh!tty attitudes and such. Just was happening a lot, but as long as this club idea stays respectful and as a good place to diffuse thread derailing misconceptions/statements, I'll stick around a bit more. Doubt y'all even noticed I'd left ?

[That Aud Smell]

5 minutes ago, josie said:

Doubt y'all even noticed I'd left 

I won't purport to keep attendance logs or anything, but I noticed. 

In general, I notice it when posters whose content I enjoy are taking a break of any significance. 

[josie]

Just now, That Aud Smell said:

I won't purport to keep attendance logs or anything, but I noticed. 

In general, I notice it when posters whose content I enjoy are taking a break of any significance. 

D'aww butter me up, darling

 

I have to look and see if I did any decent Sabres art worth sharing. Been too busy to really do much ? 

[Randall Flagg]

Good stuff josie! 

[Samson's Flow]

21 minutes ago, josie said:

Doubt y'all even noticed I'd left ?

We were just talking to dark to get you to come back. Nobody likes that guy anyways...?

 

Thanks for the insight on the Trans discussion!

[That Aud Smell]

12 minutes ago, josie said:

I have to look and see if I did any decent Sabres art worth sharing. Been too busy to really do much ? 

It always mystifies me when I hear my colleagues sniff at the presumed work ethic of so-called millenials. The large majority of people that age, that I know, are working their effing arses off. I mean - did the term "side hustle" even exist before y'all came on line?!

[LTS]

Man.. a great discussion.  I honestly am so just let live that I don't even bother to think about these kinds of things.

If I meet someone who tells me they are whatever they are then I'm good with that.  I'll do my best to recognize them as they want to be recognized.  I don't even know that I want to have a discussion about it.  I was also never the guy to have the "guy" conversations about women and that crap.  It's just not my business, period.  If you tell me you want to be a woman or a man or that you like women or men, then so be it.  Good to know.  

 

[josie]

2 minutes ago, LTS said:

Man.. a great discussion.  I honestly am so just let live that I don't even bother to think about these kinds of things.

If I meet someone who tells me they are whatever they are then I'm good with that.  I'll do my best to recognize them as they want to be recognized.  I don't even know that I want to have a discussion about it.  I was also never the guy to have the "guy" conversations about women and that crap.  It's just not my business, period.  If you tell me you want to be a woman or a man or that you like women or men, then so be it.  Good to know.  

 

I believe that's essentially all everyone wants in the end! End the thread, we're good here ?  

 

I think where people start crossing wires and getting defensive is when you look at a really involved LGBTQ community like West Hollywood and everyone sort of splits into factions and tend to get offended if they're not addressed appropriately.

And while it's not really a part of this conversation, I'm going to mention that each major faction of the LGBT acronym can be reaaaallly gatekeeper-y about what people "qualify" as- aka their community can be just as close minded and sh!tty as hetero culture is purported to be. It's not the pretty happy rainbow with open minds and smiles it's often painted to be. So I think a lot of the fight to find a place in the rainbow so to speak spills out into pronoun wars and definitions- and those not involved in LGBT are going... wtf (hell, most of the community itself is going wtf half the time). And it's overwhelming and exhausting and like learning a new language that changes every few months.

Brief example- bisexual is a term a lot of (overarching term- also sort of controversial to some- ugh i know) people are replacing with pansexual. I won't get into it unless you want me to (actually has something to do with trans identity) but it's very small details that some people stake their entire worth on. I call them outrage hobbyists. They exist in every group for every subject since the dawn of time. And if you're wielding the sword of civility/right and wrog... you just end up cutting your own arm off by making other people hate your cause. I think we call them SJWs now. 

 

But yeah. The main philosophy here is: be kind, don't be a d!ck, let people live their lives and don't make a huge deal about it.   

[That Aud Smell]

15 minutes ago, LTS said:

Man.. a great discussion.  I honestly am so just let live that I don't even bother to think about these kinds of things.

If I meet someone who tells me they are whatever they are then I'm good with that.  I'll do my best to recognize them as they want to be recognized.  I don't even know that I want to have a discussion about it.  I was also never the guy to have the "guy" conversations about women and that crap.  It's just not my business, period.  If you tell me you want to be a woman or a man or that you like women or men, then so be it.  Good to know. 

I understand and identify with this as well.

There seems to be something afoot, though, that's a bit more than live and let live. Within the past three years, I've been brought to task for idly, casually identifying someone as a girl or a boy. The intended takeaway for me was clear enough: "Psssh - did you hear that old dude?! 'Her.' ... 'Him.' Get with the times, old man!"

3 minutes ago, josie said:

those not involved in LGBT are going... wtf (hell, most of the community itself is going wtf half the time). And it's overwhelming and exhausting and like learning a new language that changes every few months.

But yeah. The main philosophy here is: be kind, don't be a d!ck, let people live their lives and don't make a huge deal about it.   

That's a piece of it for me, for sure.

I'm good with the main philosophy.

But I continue to have ... confusion/reluctance over how the issue of gender dysphoria can, should best be addressed.

[josie]

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I understand and identify with this as well.

There seems to be something afoot, though, that's a bit more than live and let live. Within the past three years, I've been brought to task for idly, casually identifying someone as a girl or a boy. The intended takeaway for me was clear enough: "Psssh - did you hear that old dude?! 'Her.' ... 'Him.' Get with the times, old man!"

That's a piece of it for me, for sure.

I'm good with the main philosophy.

But I continue to have ... confusion/reluctance over how the issue of gender dysphoria can, should best be addressed.

Counseling. Fits into my ancillary rant about how mental health care is just as important as physical health care but... 

I'm not sure I'm following correctly, but you're confused as to how/why someone would know inside that rather than being a very femme boy who likes other boys, he knows he's female/would be happier to be accepted by society as female?

It's a very individual thing, I'm afraid there's no real "here's why this happens and here are the societal/familial/Freudian/etc. reasons that led up to that decision". 

I think a lot of people want those logical stairsteps to a scientific, DSM-IV definition. And it's not there right now. People have felt this way forever, but only maybe in the last couple of decades have we actually tried to listen/help without slapping it as psychosis/nutjob/curiosity and shipping them off for electroshock therapy. An argument people like to bring up is "well why are there so many gay/trans/lgbt people suddenly it's obviously a fad" and my counter is no- they just hid before or languished in internal turmoil thinking they were being smote by demons or something 

dark somewhere up there says that he personally can't imagine it because he isn't, and I have to say the same. Dysphoria is the clinical term I think is easiest to grab onto to explain something you don't feel. I think they're closely related. I have body dysphoria and always have- but it's not about what my body is, gender wise.  A trans person, maybe from a very young age, maybe only in later years, has that same horrible feeling of "oh god I'm so not what I know I am". That person (lets say assigned male at birth) partakes in society as a woman and then they come home and take off the dress and there's the ugly truth staring them down- and if only their body could change, the hair lessen, eventually the genitals changed, they'd feel more complete, less of a lie. They're not just a femme gay guy- it's a step farther than that.  

If this is more of a society thing- I think we're moving in a better direction but it'll always be messy because marketing and money. It can absolutely affect a business to cater to what they consider a "niche" clientele in the face of being pro all genders and such. Trickier conversation. 

[LTS]

41 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I understand and identify with this as well.

There seems to be something afoot, though, that's a bit more than live and let live. Within the past three years, I've been brought to task for idly, casually identifying someone as a girl or a boy. The intended takeaway for me was clear enough: "Psssh - did you hear that old dude?! 'Her.' ... 'Him.' Get with the times, old man!"

That's a piece of it for me, for sure.

I'm good with the main philosophy.

But I continue to have ... confusion/reluctance over how the issue of gender dysphoria can, should best be addressed.

I understand that point.  That said, if you blur the boundaries enough then you have to expect to become visibly unidentifiable.  One should not be offended when someone cannot tell how someone identifies.  One should be offended if they tell someone how they identify and the person gets it wrong.

Generally I've found myself just saying "Look at that person" or using the non-specific but generally plural "they" to refer to someone. 

I have seen the group protectionism.  That's what really kills me.  What those kinds of people don't understand is that if you take that line of thinking "you aren't 100% us" to its logical end game then there is no "100% us" because at some point, we are different from each other. Over-classification is a problem everywhere and with everything. 

 

[That Aud Smell]

8 minutes ago, josie said:

I'm not sure I'm following correctly, but you're confused as to how/why someone would know inside that rather than being a very femme boy who likes other boys, he knows he's female/would be happier to be accepted by society as female? 

I can't, won't get into the business of how or why someone would know or feel something that's personal to her/him (them!).

I think I just have larger issues and concerns with the process by which the culture of individual self-actualization leads us to places where, increasingly, each individual is the master and arbiter of her/his (their!) own human nature. 

Someone upthread talked about a third arm, or something. That leads me to another point: There are obviously all sorts of infirmities, defects, and disorders that could be congenital to someone that we, as a society, should look to prevent, cure, or heal.

But it seems like this cause places gender into that realm -- of something approaching a birth defect. I really struggle with that.

Even some of the lexicon is like a needle off a record for me: The gender assigned at birth. 

Also, I truly do not intend offence by it, but the allegory of Frankenstein (the thoughtful novel, not the Hollywood monster) seems implicated at some point.

4 minutes ago, LTS said:

I understand that point.  That said, if you blur the boundaries enough then you have to expect to become visibly unidentifiable.  One should not be offended when someone cannot tell how someone identifies.  One should be offended if they tell someone how they identify and the person gets it wrong.

Generally I've found myself just saying "Look at that person" or using the non-specific but generally plural "they" to refer to someone. 

I have seen the group protectionism.  That's what really kills me.  What those kinds of people don't understand is that if you take that line of thinking "you aren't 100% us" to its logical end game then there is no "100% us" because at some point, we are different from each other. Over-classification is a problem everywhere and with everything.

Good stuff. I think you're getting at something that I am struggling to articulate: At times, this all seems like a bit of a fool's errand. Or, if it's not already one, it's headed that way. Each person a god and universe unto themselves.