UPDATE: Sam Reinhart signs 2-year extension -- $3.65MM per year

[SDS]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Just change the email address to the other one and I am good. I did miss my old account. Where's the contact form?

I saw your old email address, but didn't memorize it. Now it is gone. Just send a PM.

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Just change the email address to the other one and I am good. I did miss my old account. Where's the contact form?

I found your old email address. All set.

[erickompositör72]

5 hours ago, Falstaff said:

The end of season nonsense 2 seasons ago, coming out awful this season then magically turning it on the second half of the year.  In some circles that'd be called playing for a contract.  That's Drew Staffordish.  If it were me, I'd find a club who believed strongly in his second half and move him this summer before they figure out that it's fool's gold.

I've heard from a reliable source that they've been desperately trying to move him. I just worry all we could get back is a similar risk/reward proposition. Samson is honestly one that I'm most curious to see how he starts the season- especially if they use him at all at center.

 

I think Samson's play the second half of last season could work at the center position

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, erickompositör72 said:

I've heard from a reliable source that they've been desperately trying to move him. I just worry all we could get back is a similar risk/reward proposition. Samson is honestly one that I'm most curious to see how he starts the season- especially if they use him at all at center.

 

I think Samson's play the second half of last season could work at the center position

Wasn't that a bit of an older rumor, though? From everything Botterill has said recently, seems like he envisions Sam as part of the core going forward. In any event, I don't think it would be very hard to move him right now if they wanted to.

I'm hoping for a 2 year bridge deal. I was tempted to say 3 years, but it might be better if Reinhart, Mittelstadt, and Dahlin aren't all up at once. They can sign Reino to a longer term deal after that, assuming it's warranted, or even after the first year if Botterill thinks Sam is primed for a breakout after watching him again this coming season.

[Randall Flagg]

16 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Wasn't that a bit of an older rumor, though? From everything Botterill has said recently, seems like he envisions Sam as part of the core going forward. In any event, I don't think it would be very hard to move him right now if they wanted to.

I'm hoping for a 2 year bridge deal. I was tempted to say 3 years, but it might be better if Reinhart, Mittelstadt, and Dahlin aren't all up at once. They can sign Reino to a longer term deal after that, assuming it's warranted, or even after the first year if Botterill thinks Sam is primed for a breakout after watching him again this coming season.

At this point he basically has to. His top six forwards are currently Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart. His top six prospects with high potential of reaching that are: Casey Mittelstadt. His long-shot top sixers are Nylander and Olofsson, and the rest of the prospects project to the bottom six, except for maybe a Davidsson in 5 years or something like that.

We can't really move Sam now because we literally don't have good forwards now or in the pipeline. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

At this point he basically has to. His top six forwards are currently Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart. His top six prospects with high potential of reaching that are: Casey Mittelstadt. His long-shot top sixers are Nylander and Olofsson, and the rest of the prospects project to the bottom six, except for maybe a Davidsson in 5 years or something like that.

We can't really move Sam now because we literally don't have good forwards now or in the pipeline. 

This is true. 

I still find myself relatively optimistic where the forwards are concerned, though. I know we need wingers, but we've seen so often before that the key to a really good line is the center. A guy who makes those around him better. One player you didn't count among our wing potentials is Conor Sheary, who was good enough to play with one of the greatest players to ever play the game. I don't point out that obvious bit of info because I think Sheary plays with Jack long term (he may be there for a while, though, and I think he'll do well in that role), but just because it's so much easier for wingers to fall into place if you have the stud centers. 

We have a franchise center. We have a guy who has first-line C potential, probably slated as our 2C. Even with just one other legit top 6 forward in Reinhart, I don't mind the shape we are in at all, in this regard. If one is high on Eichel and Mittelstadt, one can be high on the future outlook of our top 6. 

[Hoss]

I know he was absolutely putrid for the first half of the season, but he ended up with 25-25-50 which is very good for a player who started the season at 21 years old. Played all 82 games which is huge.

21-19-40 of that came in the 44 games played January 1st and after. That's a pace of 39-35-74 over 82 games. Obviously the key is putting it together over a full season, but if he's even just "good" for half the year and that level (borderline great) for the other half he's looking at a 35-40-75 season at age 22/23. That'd end any conversation about whether he's a major piece.

I want Samson around going forward. I think he's as important to this team as any player not named Eichel or Dahlin.

[pi2000]

56 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

At this point he basically has to. His top six forwards are currently Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart. His top six prospects with high potential of reaching that are: Casey Mittelstadt. His long-shot top sixers are Nylander and Olofsson, and the rest of the prospects project to the bottom six, except for maybe a Davidsson in 5 years or something like that.

We can't really move Sam now because we literally don't have good forwards now or in the pipeline. 

I'd trade him in heartbeat as part of a larger package for an established winger   

Some combination of him, Risto, Nylander, Guhle, picks etc..... for somebody like a Johnny Hockey, 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

I'd trade him in heartbeat as part of a larger package for an established winger   

Some combination of him, Risto, Nylander, Guhle, picks etc..... for somebody like a Johnny Hockey, 

You'd trade a 50 pt winger, a 40pt defender, our best defensive prospect and nylander... that's short sighted and what got us in this mess. 

Fun fact, Reinhart scored more goals then Johnny last season. Johnny had more even strength goals though. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

How many of these guys would you trade Sam for?

Larkin, Arvidsson, Willie Nylander, Point, Fabbri, Tuch, Fiala, Hertl, Teravainen, Pearson, Drouin, Domi, Burakovsky, Guentzel, Buchnevich, Bjorkstrand

They're all Sam's draft year or older and have produced similar or fewer NHL points.

Edited July 7, 2018 by dudacek

[North Buffalo]

Maybe Arrvidson, Fabri or Hertl but thats it.  Like Point but he's not on Sam’s level.

Edited July 7, 2018 by North Buffalo

[Randall Flagg]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

How many of these guys would you trade Sam for?

Larkin, Arvidsson, Willie Nylander, Point, Fabbri, Tuch, Fiala, Hertl, Teravainen, Pearson, Drouin, Domi, Burakovsky, Guentzel, Buchnevich, Bjorkstrand

They're all Sam's draft year or older and have produced similar or fewer NHL points.

I'd easily trade him for Point. He probably has less value than 5-6 of those other guys, and is definitely better (taking team into account) than Guentzel, Buchnevich, Domi, Drouin, Tuch, Burakovsky, Pearson, Bjorkstrand, Fiala so far, Fabbri (knee) IMO. Larkin is interesting and simply has different tools, I don't watch him enough to have an idea of his value relative to Sam. Willy has higher value but who knows if that would hold if their situations were reversed. Teravainen is a really freaking neat player and I don't think either Buffalo or Carolina would swap them one for one. 

A bunch of those guys can still leap each other. 

Which I get is your point. 

Anyway, I think Point is the only sure-thing no-brainer from that list to be a better hockey player right now even on Buffalo, and that's because not only did he score a lot (on a stacked team) but he was used at C in a defensive role and was elite both ways, which is rare at that age. I think he's Tampa's second-most-valuable forward asset. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[SwampD]

Sam Reinhart will be fine.

Jebus f'n Christ.

If the Sabres are trying to move him then they deserve everything awful they get.

Samsom is getting 70-80 points this year.

[dudacek]

19 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'd easily trade him for Point. He probably has less value than 5-6 of those other guys, and is definitely better (taking team into account) than Guentzel, Buchnevich, Domi, Drouin, Burakovsky, Pearson, Bjorkstrand, Fiala so far, Fabbri (knee) IMO. Larkin is interesting and simply has different tools, I don't watch him enough to have an idea of his value relative to Sam. Willy has higher value but who knows if that would hold if their situations were reversed. Teravainen is a really freaking neat player and I don't think either Buffalo or Carolina would swap them one for one. 

A bunch of those guys can still leap each other. 

Which I get is your point. 

Anyway, I think Point is the only sure-thing no-brainer from that list to be a better hockey player right now even on Buffalo, and that's because not only did he score a lot (on a stacked team) but he was used at C in a defensive role and was elite both ways, which is rare at that age. I think he's Tampa's second-most-valuable forward asset. 

I wouldn't trade Sam for any of them; not Larkin, not Willie, not Point.

Point and Nylander play on two of the best forward groups in the NHL. Sam has outscored each of them overall since their draft year by a considerable margin and over the back half of the season last year (37 points to 29, 31, 30) as well.

At least those three guys are Sam's peers. The vast majority of those listed are not.

My point is Sam Reinhart is criminally underrated around here.

Edited July 7, 2018 by dudacek

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I wouldn't trade Sam for any of them; not Larkin, not Willie, not Point.

Point and Nylander play on two of the best forward groups in the NHL. Sam has outscored each of them overall since their draft year by a considerable margin and over the back half of the season last year (37 points to 29, 31, 30) as well.

At least those three guys are Sam's peers. The vast majority of those listed are not.

My point is Sam Reinhart is criminally underrated around here.

Criminally.

It's remarkable, actually.

[Randall Flagg]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I wouldn't trade Sam for any of them; not Larkin, not Willie, not Point.

Point and Nylander play on two of the best forward groups in the NHL. Sam has outscored each of them overall since their draft year by a considerable margin and over the back half of the season last year (37 points to 29, 31, 30) as well.

At least those three guys are Sam's peers. The vast majority of those listed are not.

My point is Sam Reinhart is criminally underrated around here.

How much of Brayden have you watched? His defensive chops at the center position are Barkov-esque, and he's talented enough to drive the line that gets by far the hardest matchups on that team. He faced tougher opposition than literally any Sabre, forward or defensemen, on the usage chart, and his best linemate was Palat, who is worse than Sam's, Ryan O'Reilly, and Sam did his work from the wing. In this spot, Brayden scored 14 more points than Sam. If you gave Sam the toughest opponents of any player on Buffalo or Tampa in the center position with Palat and put Point in Sam's role with ROR, the gap between them would grow, not shrink. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

How much of Brayden have you watched? His defensive chops at the center position are Barkov-esque, and he's talented enough to drive the line that gets by far the hardest matchups on that team. He faced tougher opposition than literally any Sabre, forward or defensemen, on the usage chart, and his best linemate was Palat, who is worse than Sam's, Ryan O'Reilly, and Sam did his work from the wing. In this spot, Brayden scored 14 more points than Sam. If you gave Sam the toughest opponents of any player on Buffalo or Tampa in the center position with Palat and put Point in Sam's role with ROR, the gap between them would grow, not shrink. 

You must not be old enough to remember the RAV line.

[dudacek]

I've seen enough of Point to consider him a core player.

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

You must not be old enough to remember the RAV line.

The RAV line was sheltered by Briere's line and Drury's line - Briere's with offensive minutes against other team's top defenses, Drury's line shutting down opposing top lines. 

Point plays against the other team's best players to shelter the rest of his team. I stress that he faced tougher competition than Ryan O'Reilly did this season.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The RAV line was sheltered by Briere's line and Drury's line - Briere's with offensive minutes against other team's top defenses, Drury's line shutting down opposing top lines. 

Point plays against the other team's best players to shelter the rest of his team. I stress that he faced tougher competition than Ryan O'Reilly did this season.

Charity bet. Samsom ends up with more points than Brayden next year.

[Randall Flagg]

33 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Charity bet. Samsom ends up with more points than Brayden next year.

Sure. But they have to be within 5 games played of each other, fair? 

And once again, Brayden will do it with a far tougher job on his plate ?

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Hoss said:

I know he was absolutely putrid for the first half of the season, but he ended up with 25-25-50 which is very good for a player who started the season at 21 years old. Played all 82 games which is huge.

21-19-40 of that came in the 44 games played January 1st and after. That's a pace of 39-35-74 over 82 games. Obviously the key is putting it together over a full season, but if he's even just "good" for half the year and that level (borderline great) for the other half he's looking at a 35-40-75 season at age 22/23. That'd end any conversation about whether he's a major piece.

I want Samson around going forward. I think he's as important to this team as any player not named Eichel or Dahlin.

20-19-39 in the 44 games actually, but pretty much same difference. His pace the second half of the season was really quite staggering, considering his start to the season. If that's the real Sam going forward, not only is he a hell of a player, but like you mentioned, he's still young. Sky's the limit for Sam. 

[TrueBlueGED]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

I wouldn't trade Sam for any of them; not Larkin, not Willie, not Point.

Point and Nylander play on two of the best forward groups in the NHL. Sam has outscored each of them overall since their draft year by a considerable margin and over the back half of the season last year (37 points to 29, 31, 30) as well.

At least those three guys are Sam's peers. The vast majority of those listed are not.

My point is Sam Reinhart is criminally underrated around here.

Convenient to leave out that Reinhart has played 65 more games than Nylander and 99 more than Point. Career points per game: Reinhart - .56, Point - .71, Nylander - .73. I'd trade Reinhart for either of them without much of a second thought. I'd consider Guentzel or Arvidsson as well, but that's more of a fit argument than it is they're clearly better than Samson.

Reinhart is definitely underrated around here, but I think you put way too much stock on a half season stretch where he vastly outperformed his career averages.

[LGR4GM]

I agree with Blue, the question is, is Reinhart the 2nd half or the first. I want him with Mittelstadt not jack. I think Casey is a better fit because he'll open more room with his lateral movement and his playing style meshes better with Reinhart. That leaves Eichel with a revitalized Okposo which I think will work great with Sheary.

 

Sheary - Eichel - Okposo 

Rod - Mittelstadt - Reinhart

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by LGR4GM

[TrueBlueGED]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I agree with Blue, the question is, is Reinhart the 2nd half or the first. I want him with Mittelstadt not jack. I think Casey is a better fit because he'll open more room with his lateral movement and his playing style meshes better with Reinhart. That leaves Eichel with a revitalized Okposo which I think will work great with Sheary.

 

Sheary - Eichel - Okposo 

Rod - Mittelstadt - Reinhart

 

I'm glad you agree with me. More people should try it! ? 

You're really setting yourself up for disappointment with Okposo, though. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, TrueBlueGED said:

I'm glad you agree with me. More people should try it! ? 

You're really setting yourself up for disappointment with Okposo, though. 

I don't think so. Okposo is a 50pt guy and reliable defensively. He is good in the corners and can feed eichel pucks or shoot.