UPDATE: Sam Reinhart signs 2-year extension -- $3.65MM per year

[LGR4GM]

On 12/6/2018 at 9:38 PM, Thorny said:

He's on pace for 68 points. That's 2nd overall worthy, certainly. 

 

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Debatable but glad to see it

Someone should pull the numbers for the last 10 2nd overall picks and see. 

[Hoss]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Someone should pull the numbers for the last 10 2nd overall picks and see. 

Since the recent drafts would be too soon I checked five years post draft for others around Samson:

2013 Barkov - 78 points

2012 Murray - bust (dman so no point in posting, didn’t even look)

2011 Landeskog - 53 points

2010 Seguin - 77 points in 71 games

2009 Hedman - dman but blows out Samson

2008 Doughty - see Hedman

 

Note we’re pacing Samson over 82 games but not the names above so they’d also get a slight bump if we did that. I’d say this shows he’s still slightly behind where you’d want him to be at that slot but not terribly. He’s ahead of Landeskog’s point production but not the all-around player Gabe is either.

[WildCard]

Also offense is at a peak for the 1st time in a decade. 68 points isn't what it was 5 years ago

[inkman]

9 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Also offense is at a peak for the 1st time in a decade. 68 points isn't what it was 5 years ago

It's also not what it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago or 30 years ago 

[Weave]

I think the failure of Sam as a center is enough to be disappointed at some level.  We counted on him from the get go to be a fixture at pivot even after we drafted Jack.

But a top line RW is not at all out of line for a #2 pick.  I think anyone here that said they weren't expecting an all star consideration level player out of that pick isn't being honest with themselves though.  The hype was pretty tremendous.  He's good.  Better than he sometimes gets credit for.  But certainly hasn't lived up to that hype.

It's interesting that there is so much patience for Sam.  Most times a player doesn't live up to the hype they are run out of town.  The patience (or maybe acceptance) is good in this case.  the team is better for his presence.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Weave

[Randall Flagg]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think the failure of Sam as a center is enough to be disappointed at some level.  We counted on him from the get go to be a fixture at pivot even after we drafted Jack.

But a top line RW is not at all out of line for a #2 pick.  I think anyone here that said they weren't expecting an all star consideration level player out of that pick isn't being honest with themselves though.  The hype was pretty tremendous.  He's good.  Better than he sometimes gets credit for.  But certainly hasn't lived up to that hype.

It's interesting that there is so much patience for Sam.  Most times a player doesn't live up to the hype they are run out of town.  The patience (or maybe acceptance) is good in this case.  the team is better for his presence.

I bet a lot of this is that even though we were happy to be picking second, even at the time it was alllllllllllllll about the 2015 draft for most of us. Sam was always going to be "the guy behind the guy we draft next year." 

Whereas that guy, Eichel, had his captaincy declared a failure in game 3 of this season by some Sabres fans on this board, literally 

So I think the patience is inversely related to the expectations people had for each player from the beginning. 

[Weave]

10 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I bet a lot of this is that even though we were happy to be picking second, even at the time it was alllllllllllllll about the 2015 draft for most of us. Sam was always going to be "the guy behind the guy we draft next year." 

Whereas that guy, Eichel, had his captaincy declared a failure in game 3 of this season by some Sabres fans on this board, literally 

So I think the patience is inversely related to the expectations people had for each player from the beginning. 

 

I dunno, man. there were Ron Francis projections for Sam.  That's pretty lofty.

[inkman]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

I dunno, man. there were Ron Francis projections for Sam.  That's pretty lofty.

It's not an awful comparison

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, inkman said:

It's not an awful comparison

It is from Ron Francis' point of view.  He had a HOF career.  As a center.

[Randall Flagg]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

I dunno, man. there were Ron Francis projections for Sam.  That's pretty lofty.

Sure, but your "guy that's not really going to be the guy" not being Ron Francis and rather just being a good player is a lot different than a guy that's supposed to be "the guy" not being "the guy." 

If we drafted a defenseman at 7OA in 2015, then I'd bet people are a lot harder on Sam than they are now

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

It is from Ron Francis' point of view.  He had a HOF career.  As a center.

I don't think it is fair to compare Samson to Ronnie, especially from Ron's point of view, you are absolutely right.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

I think the failure of Sam as a center is enough to be disappointed at some level.  We counted on him from the get go to be a fixture at pivot even after we drafted Jack.

But a top line RW is not at all out of line for a #2 pick.  I think anyone here that said they weren't expecting an all star consideration level player out of that pick isn't being honest with themselves though.  The hype was pretty tremendous.  He's good.  Better than he sometimes gets credit for.  But certainly hasn't lived up to that hype.

It's interesting that there is so much patience for Sam.  Most times a player doesn't live up to the hype they are run out of town.  The patience (or maybe acceptance) is good in this case.  the team is better for his presence.

He's still only 23. Not out of the realm of possibility at all. 

He was recently declared the NHL's new Ryan Smyth, I'll see if I can find the tweet. Love that comparisson. 

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Thorny

[Sabres Fan in NS]

^^^^^

Now, that is what I call a good comparison.  Not this Ron Francis nonsense.

[mjd1001]

4 hours ago, Weave said:

I think the failure of Sam as a center is enough to be disappointed at some level.  We counted on him from the get go to be a fixture at pivot even after we drafted Jack.

But a top line RW is not at all out of line for a #2 pick.  I think anyone here that said they weren't expecting an all star consideration level player out of that pick isn't being honest with themselves though.  The hype was pretty tremendous.  He's good.  Better than he sometimes gets credit for.  But certainly hasn't lived up to that hype.

It's interesting that there is so much patience for Sam.  Most times a player doesn't live up to the hype they are run out of town.  The patience (or maybe acceptance) is good in this case.  the team is better for his presence.

He is very polarizing on this board, that is for sure.

The best way I can sum up my opinion on him is...as an overall player, he is good, but his less value than the points he puts up.  

As I have said on here before, he HAS to score to be useful.  He doesn't penalty kill. Faceoffs aren't a big deal but he is awful at them.  He makes too many mistakes to rely on him as a shut-down forward (and his penalty killing and late game ice time show this).  Even strength he is middle of the pack in terms of scoring.

  He makes his mark by putting up points on the powerplay, and that does mean something. But, look at his stats this year and for his career...and of all the forwards that get comparable PP ice time across the league..he is mid-pack.  Now certainly every forward in the league isn't good enough to justify PP ice time, and his offensive skills do justify that ice time...but he certainly doesn't excel more than anyone else there.

So what is he?  He is a $3.5 to $4.5 million dollar player.  He is average to above average on the PP (where he gets his points) but in just about any other aspect of the game, he doesn't add anything over a 'replacement level' forward.  I'm good with him as long as he doesn't go on any extended point droughts.  I'm good with him at his current contract. However, I also won't be upset if he eventually gets moved in a trade.

Edited December 8, 2018 by mjd1001

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Weave said:

I think the failure of Sam as a center is enough to be disappointed at some level.  We counted on him from the get go to be a fixture at pivot even after we drafted Jack.

But a top line RW is not at all out of line for a #2 pick.  I think anyone here that said they weren't expecting an all star consideration level player out of that pick isn't being honest with themselves though.  The hype was pretty tremendous.  He's good.  Better than he sometimes gets credit for.  But certainly hasn't lived up to that hype.

It's interesting that there is so much patience for Sam.  Most times a player doesn't live up to the hype they are run out of town.  The patience (or maybe acceptance) is good in this case.  the team is better for his presence.

Eh, maybe.  I always cut him some slack because Regier was a moron to tank Sam's year.  The prize the year before was MacKinnon; the next year McDavid.  F###### Darcy tanked hard to get Reinhart (yeah, Ekblad was better but the Sabres needed centers).

Though it's disappointing Sam isn't the 2C, he's a very good player and our best RW.  I'll take that.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Taro T

[Sabel79]

Samson wanders around aimlessly way too much to be a center on any line in the NHL.  He’s a winger at this level.  End of.  

Edited December 8, 2018 by Sabel79

[TrueBlueGED]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

 

I dunno, man. there were Ron Francis projections for Sam.  That's pretty lofty.

Were these projections from Sabres fans or "professional" draft analysts? 

Anyway, to your larger point, I think a lot of the patience comes from the fact Sam was showing something along the way. If he had shown up and played like Grigorenko for 2 years, I think there'd have been considerably less patience with him.

[Eleven]

7 hours ago, Weave said:

I think the failure of Sam as a center is enough to be disappointed at some level.  We counted on him from the get go to be a fixture at pivot even after we drafted Jack.

But a top line RW is not at all out of line for a #2 pick.  I think anyone here that said they weren't expecting an all star consideration level player out of that pick isn't being honest with themselves though.  The hype was pretty tremendous.  He's good.  Better than he sometimes gets credit for.  But certainly hasn't lived up to that hype.

It's interesting that there is so much patience for Sam.  Most times a player doesn't live up to the hype they are run out of town.  The patience (or maybe acceptance) is good in this case.  the team is better for his presence.

They drafted him to be a center, though. That is what the Sabres were desperate for. They could have drafted no-pull-up or Draisatl (who played center but who projected as a wing and who now IS a center) instead, but they picked Reinhart because he was supposed to be a center on this team.

He is becoming a disappointment.  Not a bust, not at all, but he's not living up to the hype.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Eleven

[PerreaultForever]

Bad blind pass on the PP caused the SH goal and turned the game. He does that. It's like a panic move. He didn't need to throw the puck away like that. 

Just remember this, when Pominville was on that line some people talked about resigning him. Off that line he looks like a has been dud again.

Jack makes his linemates look better. It's as simple as that. Show me Reinhart scoring or dominating while not playing with Jack and maybe I'd get on the sign him long term bandwagon.

[Taro T]

28 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Bad blind pass on the PP caused the SH goal and turned the game. He does that. It's like a panic move. He didn't need to throw the puck away like that. 

Just remember this, when Pominville was on that line some people talked about resigning him. Off that line he looks like a has been dud again.

Jack makes his linemates look better. It's as simple as that. Show me Reinhart scoring or dominating while not playing with Jack and maybe I'd get on the sign him long term bandwagon.

You are forgetting that the reason Reinhart was flipped with Pominville wasn't because Housley was looking to get Reinhart going.  It was because Pominville had hit a wall.

And rather than sit Pominville to let him recharge his batteries, he only got reduced responsibility & ice time.

Reinhart didn't initially click on the top line & after a good in game swap back, Jason got a couple more games on that line & did jack.

That line is VERY close to 2 goals per game since being reestablished.  Breaking it up won't right the other 3 lines.

[nfreeman]

8 hours ago, Thorny said:

He's still only 23. Not out of the realm of possibility at all. 

He was recently declared the NHL's new Ryan Smyth, I'll see if I can find the tweet. Love that comparisson. 

 

I agree with everything in Bourne's tweet except the comparison to Ryan Smyth.  Totally different players IMHO.

[inkman]

53 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with everything in Bourne's tweet except the comparison to Ryan Smyth.  Totally different players IMHO.

I'm assuming this is because Smyth was a man's man. Gritty, tough heart and soul kinda guy. Sam will never get those descriptors. 

[nfreeman]

13 hours ago, inkman said:

I'm assuming this is because Smyth was a man's man. Gritty, tough heart and soul kinda guy. Sam will never get those descriptors. 

Yes, but also different playing styles, strengths and weaknesses and body types.  

[inkman]

39 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Yes, but also different playing styles, strengths and weaknesses and body types.  

FWIW, 

Smyth 6'2" 192 lbs

Reinhart 6'1" 192 lbs

Edited December 9, 2018 by inkman

[nfreeman]

Humiliating setback.