UPDATE: Sam Reinhart signs 2-year extension -- $3.65MM per year

[erickompositör72]

30 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It certainly is. Play well now, and you get a big deal later.

---

This is a great, value deal from Botterill (that we haven't been used to seeing a lot of) that I think says a lot about how he does business. 

It therefore says a lot about how Botterill must view Jack Eichel. To give him the deal he gave him, right off the hop. 

I think you can succinctly sum it up like this:

Jack is not replaceable.

[nfreeman]

I think it's also worth noting that the Eichel extension occurred during the off-season when JBott's was first hired -- i.e. before he'd had a chance to watch the team from the inside -- while his decision on Reino occurred after a full season of play.

 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

I think it's also worth noting that the Eichel extension occurred during the off-season when JBott's was first hired -- i.e. before he'd had a chance to watch the team from the inside -- while his decision on Reino occurred after a full season of play.

 

But with his apparent disposition to value deals, or "cautious" contracts, as evidenced by the Reinhart deal, I still think it says something about the certainty with which he views Eichel's current and future placement in the league. He could have waited on Eichel's contract. 

[Doohicksie]

The value deal for Reinhart was simply to tide him over until there is more cap room in a couple years.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

On 9/19/2018 at 10:30 PM, Randall Flagg said:

It's a little curious that Sam's 5v5 production isn't there because the team's production when he's on the ice at 5v5 is better, as are the metrics and production of any single player with him versus without him 

It could be Sam's Hockey IQ and how he plays without the puck that helps the teammates when he's on the ice. Doing the little things right goes along way and farther than most people think. That's what makes Sam a better player and more valuable than we think.

[nfreeman]

OK, we're 13 games into the season, Reino has one goal and is frequently MIA, his start is pretty much as bad as it was last year and the Sabres are dying from lack of 2ndary scoring.

Just wondering whether anyone who wanted to give him a fat long-term deal is having 2nd thoughts?

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

OK, we're 13 games into the season, Reino has one goal and is frequently MIA, his start is pretty much as bad as it was last year and the Sabres are dying from lack of 2ndary scoring.

Just wondering whether anyone who wanted to give him a fat long-term deal is having 2nd thoughts?

Reinhart shouldn't even be secondary scoring.  He should be one of the team's leaders.  It's a real problem.

[darksabre]

That 2 year extension is certainly looking like the right choice at the moment.

For the record, I don't think Sam's production is due to lack of effort or anything. I think it's a lack of chemistry with line mates who aren't Jack. Elie-Casey-Sam might look good in a few months, but I don't think Sam should be counted on to carry that line... 

[dudacek]

I thought Sam looked real good before the road trip even if he wasn’t producing.

Since then, he’s been ineffective, although nowhere near the mess he was last fall. I agree with both the previous posts.

[LGR4GM]

26 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That 2 year extension is certainly looking like the right choice at the moment.

For the record, I don't think Sam's production is due to lack of effort or anything. I think it's a lack of chemistry with line mates who aren't Jack. Elie-Casey-Sam might look good in a few months, but I don't think Sam should be counted on to carry that line... 

Erod on that line would work but Housley seems either too dumb or oblivious to this point. 

[Gatorman0519]

When you pick number two, that guy, in order for your team to succeed, should be producing 60-80 points a year and be a driving force of your top 2 lines.  He was for 40 games last year and is invisible again.  Need more consistency,  

[darksabre]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Erod on that line would work but Housley seems either too dumb or oblivious to this point. 

It really does seem to be an issue with the middle of the roster. I think Sam would do better centering Okposo than playing wing to two rookies...

[Randall Flagg]

These takes are probably weird and unpopular and I'm not sure I agree with them, and they're not very organized, but I'll throw them out there:

I would bet Sam will turn it on for the second half of the season once again. I think it's important that your key players don't wait half a season to start playing, but even if that's what Sam is, I want to keep him, and just understand that I need to find better players for him to play with and thus make him not one of the three "guys" on offense. In this light, a bridge deal is good,and quite frankly, we won't need to worry about him taking up a huge chunk of our cap. I think moving him is a bad thing, I think his value to the team in the second half is worth more than what we'd get for him (what, a flawed young defenseman like the ten we have already? A forward with similar problems? May as well keep Sam). 

I also think that, while Sam has had some clunkers in Nevada and over the last 2 or 3, he's an order of magnitude better than he was in the first two months last year. 

I also think that we can look closely at the two situations and start to piece together what's up. 

Our worst skaters last year were probably Moulson, Griffith, and Pouliot, though Pouliot could score every eight games with a ridiculous solo effort. Sam spent what, a month? Centering various combinations of those guys and it was a disaster, because Sam can't be the guy on his line. But he played with ROR the rest of the way, who, despite the perpetually depression-driven furrowed-eyebrows, is a better player than those guys, and Sam lit it up. 

Right now, if I were to rank all Sabres forwards in terms of effectiveness, Thompson is the only thing keeping Sobotka from last. And Sam is helping - without Sam, Sobotka's metrics (and eye test for me) are an unmitigated disaster (and he was drawing 4th in ice time at ES on the whole team anyway because yay Phil). With his time with Sam included, they're just bad. So he's doing the thing we talked about him doing in the offseason, making his teammates better. But he won't drive anything himself, so if you have him make a lost cause better, you're really not doing much to help your team out. Last year, after a couple months we realized this and the rest of the way he and ROR were busy tilting the ice in ghastly roles. 

Our issue this year is that he hasn't played well with Jack, Jack and Jeff are humming together, and we have no other established good hockey players in the forward group to stick Sam with to elevate each other, so I'm honestly not confident in a similar level of offense being reached. 

Which is reason 30 why a move for a better 2C is something I'd sign off on. Not only would they start scoring, Samson would start scoring. It's how he works. It's not what you want at 2OA, or close to what the Bruins or Lightning got much later in that draft, because tanking is utter garbage (sorry not sorry, and check out 2nd rounder Aho from 2015's tank year who I've spent 3 seasons salivating over) but moving forward he'll be fine and a piece you may as well keep for when you feel like keeping/adding talent after you've tackled the paranormal problems on your team. (This is 100% cheekiness, not serious)

Edited November 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[LGR4GM]

I'm glad we have potentially 3 first round picks in this years draft. If we hit on 2 of 3 (top 6 guys) we will be sitting pretty. 

[Randall Flagg]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm glad we have potentially 3 first round picks in this years draft. If we hit on 2 of 3 (top 6 guys) we will be sitting pretty. 

In 2022? 

We said the same thing in 2008 and we haven't sat pretty since before I went through puberty 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[erickompositör72]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

OK, we're 13 games into the season, Reino has one goal and is frequently MIA, his start is pretty much as bad as it was last year and the Sabres are dying from lack of 2ndary scoring.

Just wondering whether anyone who wanted to give him a fat long-term deal is having 2nd thoughts?

I was one of them, and in short, yes, I'm having second thoughts. 2yrs seems like the right move.

However, it's still too early to tell. If he turns it on this season sooner than he did last, I think that's still a positive sign. When we lost Jack last year, something got into Samson and he actually was able to control play and take over when he was on the ice. Maybe it had a lot to do with line chemistry? I don't know. I just hope he figures out how to do that again. I'm hoping it just boils down to getting comfortable with his linemates.

[nfreeman]

IMHO, Reino has played best this year with Sobotka and Sheary.  I'd like to see that line reunited, along with ERod-Mitts-KO.

[dudacek]

Reinhart played his best with Eichel.

And if he was with Eichel he would probably be producing like Pominville - not a shot at Housley, because Reinhart should have more success with the great unwashed than Jason will. Also, Conor Sheary has been a turnover-prone mess away from Eichel.

As Flagg pointed out ages ago, Skinner doesn’t need Jack.

The best lines for the team right now are:

Sheary Eichel Pominville

Skinner Berglund Reinhart

Erod Mittelstadt Okposo

Girgensons Larsson Sobotka

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Reinhart played his best with Eichel.

And if he was with Eichel he would probably be producing like Pominville - not a shot at Housley, because Reinhart should have more success with the great unwashed than Jason will. Also, Conor Sheary has been a turnover-prone mess away from Eichel.

As Flagg pointed out ages ago, Skinner doesn’t need Jack.

The best lines for the team right now are:

Sheary Eichel Pominville

Skinner Berglund Reinhart

Erod Mittelstadt Okposo

Girgensons Larsson Sobotka

yas queen

[Cheektorado]

4 hours ago, darksabre said:

That 2 year extension is certainly looking like the right choice at the moment.

For the record, I don't think Sam's production is due to lack of effort or anything. I think it's a lack of chemistry with line mates who aren't Jack. Elie-Casey-Sam might look good in a few months, but I don't think Sam should be counted on to carry that line... 

I respectfully disagree and believe it is all about his effort.  I have been a fan of Sam since the beginning but it has turned this season.

I have watched his play almost exclusively on his ES shifts this year.  He is barely going through the motions.  He spends most of his shift coasting

and his fighting effort along the boards has been weak.  As for the fans who think it's up to the coaches to put him in a position to "succeed" I feel he

needs to start to show he can succeed wherever he is put.  He needs to be a leader on this team.  It's time for him to grow up.

I will continue to watch his play and hope he gets "inspired" enough to compete at the level his skillset can enable him to achieve.

Like I said in yesterday's GDT,  I will watch and give him November to prove to the club he's something more than just another guy.

[mjd1001]

11 minutes ago, Cheektorado said:

I respectfully disagree and believe it is all about his effort.  I have been a fan of Sam since the beginning but it has turned this season.

I have watched his play almost exclusively on his ES shifts this year.  He is barely going through the motions.  He spends most of his shift coasting

and his fighting effort along the boards has been weak.  As for the fans who think it's up to the coaches to put him in a position to "succeed" I feel he

needs to start to show he can succeed wherever he is put.  He needs to be a leader on this team.  It's time for him to grow up.

I will continue to watch his play and hope he gets "inspired" enough to compete at the level his skillset can enable him to achieve.

Like I said in yesterday's GDT,  I will watch and give him November to prove to the club he's something more than just another guy.

He's really not looking that good.

His shooting percentage is only 3.7% now...even if you think he will get closer to his career average (11%), that would still only give him 3 goals in 13 games.

Not only does he only have 6 points...but only 2 of his points are at even strength, in 13 games.  And he is getting the ice time...ice time per game so far this season is at a career high for him.  Among forwards, only Eichel has more ice time than Reinhart..he is second on the team.

He just doesn't look good and isn't producing...I'm not sure what needs to be done to change that.

[nfreeman]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

He's really not looking that good.

His shooting percentage is only 3.7% now...even if you think he will get closer to his career average (11%), that would still only give him 3 goals in 13 games.

Not only does he only have 6 points...but only 2 of his points are at even strength, in 13 games.  And he is getting the ice time...ice time per game so far this season is at a career high for him.  Among forwards, only Eichel has more ice time than Reinhart..he is second on the team.

He just doesn't look good and isn't producing...I'm not sure what needs to be done to change that.

I'm a firm believer that incessant message board complaining will fix the situation!

[Cheektorado]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

He's really not looking that good.

His shooting percentage is only 3.7% now...even if you think he will get closer to his career average (11%), that would still only give him 3 goals in 13 games.

Not only does he only have 6 points...but only 2 of his points are at even strength, in 13 games.  And he is getting the ice time...ice time per game so far this season is at a career high for him.  Among forwards, only Eichel has more ice time than Reinhart..he is second on the team.

He just doesn't look good and isn't producing...I'm not sure what needs to be done to change that.

I said the same thing in the GDT as you bolded. 

As to what needs to be done to change this................I don't know. 

Maybe give him one more chance at 2C?  Okposo and him have been moved around the middle 2 lines and nothing has took root.

It seems to me that somehow a 2nd line has to be found that can score and put the rest of the "can't do it" guys on a 3rd line with limited minutes.

At least the 4th line puts on pressure even though they can't score (yet).

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Erod on that line would work but Housley seems either too dumb or oblivious to this point. 

I think it’s a little heavy to be calling an NHL coach names because he hasn’t tried a very specific line combo.

[Randall Flagg]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Reinhart played his best with Eichel.

And if he was with Eichel he would probably be producing like Pominville - not a shot at Housley, because Reinhart should have more success with the great unwashed than Jason will. Also, Conor Sheary has been a turnover-prone mess away from Eichel.

As Flagg pointed out ages ago, Skinner doesn’t need Jack.

 The best lines for the team right now are:

 Sheary Eichel Pominville

 Skinner Berglund Reinhart

Erod Mittelstadt Okposo

Girgensons Larsson Sobotka

I'd keep Jack and Skinner together until the ridiculous scoring rates come back to earth, and then this would be totally cool to shift to.