Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[jame]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What else was involved? This seems like a lot of speculation. Discussing a trade could mean anything. Seems thin to me especially since the Hamilton trade happened first. 

Who cares?

Two young core pieces were available and they were interested in the player you were shopping. Do your job.

[Brawndo]

For the record I am not a fan of the ROR Trade

 Botterill’s Ask from Carolina in a potential ROR Trade included Elias Lindholm, once he was traded to Calgary Botterill moved on. 

His ask from Montreal was initially  3OA, when that was refused he asked for Ryan Poehling plus. Montreal moved on. 

Arizona Calgary and The Islanders where other reported teams who called about him. 

[dudacek]

46 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

For the record I am not a fan of the ROR Trade

 Botterill’s Ask from Carolina in a potential ROR Trade included Elias Lindholm, once he was traded to Calgary Botterill moved on. 

His ask from Montreal was initially  3OA, when that was refused he asked for Ryan Poehling plus. Montreal moved on. 

Arizona Calgary and The Islanders where other reported teams who called about him. 

Good stuff.

[jame]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

For the record I am not a fan of the ROR Trade

 Botterill’s Ask from Carolina in a potential ROR Trade included Elias Lindholm, once he was traded to Calgary Botterill moved on. 

His ask from Montreal was initially  3OA, when that was refused he asked for Ryan Poehling plus. Montreal moved on. 

Arizona Calgary and The Islanders where other reported teams who called about him. 

Botts should’ve beaten Calgary’s offer.

 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, jame said:

How are you unable to separate the two things?

If Edmonton trades McDavid for a pencil sharpener... but then adds Crosby, Ovechkin, Lidstrom and Gordie Howe in separate moves... and suddenly gets better.... it doesn't mean that trading McDavid for a pencil sharpener was a good trade that made the team better.

Well Edmonton did trade Gretzky once........and still won another cup so...............

Results are what matters. You can argue trade values and individual player worth forever. It's all speculative and hypothetical and amounts to nothing. The only thing that matters is, is the team better or worse after the moves are made? If a GM makes say 6 off season moves, maybe they're not all equal, maybe they're not all brilliant, but if the team is better the next year, he gets a thumbs up. Simple as that. You're president of the ROR fan club, I get it. Now let it go or cheer for the Blues if you prefer. We are BETTER WITHOUT HIM.

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, jame said:

Botts should’ve beaten Calgary’s offer.

That trade was: Hanifin and Lindholm FOR Hamilton, Fox Ferland. 

What would be the Sabres equivalent? 

[jame]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That trade was: Hanifin and Lindholm FOR Hamilton, Fox Ferland. 

What would be the Sabres equivalent? 

ROR is significantly better/more valuable than Hamilton

so... ROR, McCabe, Guhle?

ROR, Scandella, Nylander?

ROR, Ristolainen?

 

[LGR4GM]

I think they would have walked away from ROR, McCabe, Guhle. 

I want to also say that Carolina is a budget team. Maybe they weren't willing to pay the 7.5mil bonus. Maybe they wouldn't execute a trade until after that was paid. Then Calgary up'd the offer and they took it. 

This gripe comes down to a lot of speculation about what went on behind closed doors. 

[LGR4GM]

And for the record, I don't and didn't like the ROR trade. We didn't get enough. 

[Brawndo]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think they would have walked away from ROR, McCabe, Guhle. 

I want to also say that Carolina is a budget team. Maybe they weren't willing to pay the 7.5mil bonus. Maybe they wouldn't execute a trade until after that was paid. Then Calgary up'd the offer and they took it. 

This gripe comes down to a lot of speculation about what went on behind closed doors. 

Botts wanted more for waiting until 7/2, Carolina took the offer that included the expiring contract in Ferland. 

[spndnchz]

18 hours ago, jame said:

Beyond the use of “equivalency”... you also do not recognize the value of term.

# of 1st line centers in your list... one ROR. 

Oooops

[nucci]

Kane and O'Reilly playing well for 2 very good teams but they were cancers here....maybe they weren't the problem.

[klos1963]

21 minutes ago, nucci said:

Kane and O'Reilly playing well for 2 very good teams but they were cancers here....maybe they weren't the problem.

we can't have good things.

[klos1963]

30 minutes ago, nucci said:

Kane and O'Reilly playing well for 2 very good teams but they were cancers here....maybe they weren't the problem.

Leaving Buffalo certainly seems to help careers- Lehner, Kane, ROR...

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

Leaving Buffalo certainly seems to help careers- Lehner, Kane, ROR...

Zadorov, Grigorenko, Ennis, Chad Johnson

[klos1963]

21 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Zadorov, Grigorenko, Ennis, Chad Johnson

I think my list is better.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

33 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I think my list is better.

I gave you 3-1st rd picks drafted by us.

You gave me 3 guys that were established prior to coming here and did better here, then left.

[klos1963]

21 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I gave you 3-1st rd picks drafted by us.

You gave me 3 guys that were established prior to coming here and did better here, then left.

We didn't screw up getting rid of those guys, we screwed up getting rid of Kane and ROR with nothing really to show for it.

But, Zadorov is doing better in Colorado, Johnson had one very good season after he left, Ennis is on a stanley cup contender, and grigorenko probably played better during his time in Colorado than he did in Buffalo, although nothing too special.

Are you trying to defend the trades of Kane and ROR ?

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, klos1963 said:

We didn't screw up getting rid of those guys, we screwed up getting rid of Kane and ROR with nothing really to show for it.

But, Zadorov is doing better in Colorado, Johnson had one very good season after he left, Ennis is on a stanley cup contender, and grigorenko probably played better during his time in Colorado than he did in Buffalo, although nothing too special.

Are you trying to defend the trades of Kane and ROR ?

 

Then you could say that we screwed up both ways.....we got rid of my players to get yours, and then got rid of your players too.

[Gatorman0519]

Jbot gets an A plus for the Skinner trade.  He gets an F for the ROR fiasco.  1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:23 PM, Gatorman0519 said:

Jbot gets an A plus for the Skinner trade.  He gets an F for the ROR fiasco.  1 step forward, 2 steps back.

I think an F grade is extremely unreasonable. The trade has been discussed to such a BS status that I won't get into it again. Too many people with too much hindsight, theories, crystal balls, tarot cards, ouiji boards and such without any real facts.

Skinner trade was A+ for us....but may have been better for Carolina. They might be in the playoffs and don't have to re-sign Skinner. Gotta wonder if just being closer to home is worth it to Skinner.

[woods-racer]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 9:23 PM, Gatorman0519 said:

Jbot gets an A plus for the Skinner trade.  He gets an F for the ROR fiasco.  1 step forward, 2 steps back.

JBot inherited that fiasco.

How he choose to solve it we can grade him on if we know what other offers he had.

Tell me his other offers so we I can grade it fairly.

[Weave]

4 hours ago, woods-racer said:

JBot inherited that fiasco.

How he choose to solve it we can grade him on if we know what other offers he had.

Tell me his other offers so we I can grade it fairly.

He didn't need an offer to keep him on the roster.  I think it is fair to judge it against that.

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

He didn't need an offer to keep him on the roster.  I think it is fair to judge it against that.

 It’s just that there is a tremendous amount of unjustified hand ringing over the return. No one stops to pontificate why the amazing ROR only yielded what it did. People should not blame the auctioneer when the collectible Willie Nelson plate  only fetches $4.95 at auction. 

[Weave]

30 minutes ago, SDS said:

 It’s just that there is a tremendous amount of unjustified hand ringing over the return. No one stops to pontificate why the amazing ROR only yielded what it did. People should not blame the auctioneer when the collectible Willie Nelson plate  only fetches $4.95 at auction. 

The difference here is that you can make a case that ROR has more value to the Sabres than what they got in a trade.  So it makes sense to value the return relative to what he brought to the Sabres roster.  That Willie plate has value only relative to auction unless you are eating off it.