Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[Ripper]

What's your take Dom?

"I tink - for me - I do not know"

 

}

[Scottysabres]

39 minutes ago, Cheektorado said:

Honestly, who misses those "ROR Speedwagon" interviews?

"Byls, I can't fight this feeling anymore...............I've forgotten what I started playing for..............".

Both sides are better off now.

 

 

 

 

 

Gold Cheektorado, Gold!!

?

[Doohicksie]

5 hours ago, pi2000 said:

https://www.nhl.com/blues/video/dec-1-postgame-interviews/t-277517826/c-63589903

I don't miss that.

[StuckinFL]

16 hours ago, pi2000 said:

https://www.nhl.com/blues/video/dec-1-postgame-interviews/t-277517826/c-63589903

Thank God I don't have to see that anymore.

[LTS]

18 hours ago, darksabre said:

We really don't though. There is SOOOOO much more going on than we could ever hope to hear about. There is sooo much stuff that teams and reporters and players keep quiet. Those examples are, like, the tip of the iceberg. 

This is the one thing that gets lost when we have these discussions.

Back when I used to have some connections I would get hints of things that were happening.  Even then, the people who knew weren't saying specifics, just mentioning that there are some "things and such" going on that shape what we, the fans, were seeing.

Bottom line for me and ROR... if every team he plays for continues to struggle when he's there, then it's enough for me.  I don't care what the situation is with him, just glad that he's not here and the team is improved.

[Marions Piazza]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

This is the one thing that gets lost when we have these discussions.

Back when I used to have some connections I would get hints of things that were happening.  Even then, the people who knew weren't saying specifics, just mentioning that there are some "things and such" going on that shape what we, the fans, were seeing.

Bottom line for me and ROR... if every team he plays for continues to struggle when he's there, then it's enough for me.  I don't care what the situation is with him, just glad that he's not here and the team is improved.

/thread

[Ripper]

Haha - well boys we nailed this thread!  

Two sides opposite in opinion.  #1- good move to trade him or #2 - bad move?  Whiner or winner.  As of the last post on 12/14 #1 had the upper hand (Blues were 12-18).  Now the worm has turned and #2 can claim bragging rights (Blues are 16-9) since.  This issue, however, will probably flip-flop a few more times in the future until all of the assets in the trade have shown their future value.

I love this board because of the enthusiasm (Vesey thread), conviction (this thread_, humor (many.many) and the knowledge that I gain (also many)  Don't change a thing. SABRES FOREVER!

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, Ripper said:

Haha - well boys we nailed this thread!  

Two sides opposite in opinion.  #1- good move to trade him or #2 - bad move?  Whiner or winner.  As of the last post on 12/14 #1 had the upper hand (Blues were 12-18).  Now the worm has turned and #2 can claim bragging rights (Blues are 16-9) since.  This issue, however, will probably flip-flop a few more times in the future until all of the assets in the trade have shown their future value.

I love this board because of the enthusiasm (Vesey thread), conviction (this thread_, humor (many.many) and the knowledge that I gain (also many)  Don't change a thing. SABRES FOREVER!

You need to read more threads. There's been plenty of talk about the ROR trade, just not in this thread.

[LTS]

7 hours ago, Ripper said:

Haha - well boys we nailed this thread!  

Two sides opposite in opinion.  #1- good move to trade him or #2 - bad move?  Whiner or winner.  As of the last post on 12/14 #1 had the upper hand (Blues were 12-18).  Now the worm has turned and #2 can claim bragging rights (Blues are 16-9) since.  This issue, however, will probably flip-flop a few more times in the future until all of the assets in the trade have shown their future value.

I love this board because of the enthusiasm (Vesey thread), conviction (this thread_, humor (many.many) and the knowledge that I gain (also many)  Don't change a thing. SABRES FOREVER!

ROR has nothing to do with the St. Louis turn around.  I posted it in another thread.

Summary: Since Dec. 1 their scoring rate has dropped, but they are giving up far less goals.  They are more committed to defense and they brought in Jordan Binnington to replace Chad Johnson.  Binnington has a remarkable record and stat line since joining the club.

 

[LGR4GM]

44 minutes ago, LTS said:

ROR has nothing to do with the St. Louis turn around.  I posted it in another thread.

Summary: Since Dec. 1 their scoring rate has dropped, but they are giving up far less goals.  They are more committed to defense and they brought in Jordan Binnington to replace Chad Johnson.  Binnington has a remarkable record and stat line since joining the club.

 

Yup. Their issue was goaltending and unless it flatlines again they are the team they should have been at the beginning. 

[steveoath]

Does this all mean we have 3 first round picks this year?

[Gatorman0519]

35 minutes ago, steveoath said:

Does this all mean we have 3 first round picks this year?

If they makes the playoffs it would make it likely 

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, steveoath said:

Does this all mean we have 3 first round picks this year?

Unless one is traded, yes. That said, if St Louis has another goaltending meltdown things could shift. 

[Ripper]

7 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

You need to read more threads. There's been plenty of talk about the ROR trade, just not in this thread.

I'm sure that you are correct.  Only so many hours in the day.  Still love this board.

[Ripper]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

ROR has nothing to do with the St. Louis turn around.  I posted it in another thread.

Summary: Since Dec. 1 their scoring rate has dropped, but they are giving up far less goals.  They are more committed to defense and they brought in Jordan Binnington to replace Chad Johnson.  Binnington has a remarkable record and stat line since joining the club.

 

Again I gain knowledge.  Even though I mentioned the Blues record since 12/14, my post was about the "winner/whiner" thing, the inconclusive result and my opinion of SS.  But thanks LTS.

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

ROR has nothing to do with the St. Louis turn around.  I posted it in another thread.

Summary: Since Dec. 1 their scoring rate has dropped, but they are giving up far less goals.  They are more committed to defense and they brought in Jordan Binnington to replace Chad Johnson.  Binnington has a remarkable record and stat line since joining the club.

 

I think it's misleading to state it that way.

He was doing yeoman's work when aspects of the team were struggling around him, and he's still doing that work now that reinforcements have arrived.

Edit: If you'll allow it: Aragorn (from Lord of the Rings (sorry)) is slaughtering every orc in his path during a lengthy battle, but his fighting unit is ill-suited to the battle and losing. But, lo. A cavalry of men arrives (blowing the horn of ... something) and the tide steadily turns. Aragorn continues to do what he'd been doing. Good guys prevail. Aragorn may not have been the moving force in the turnaround, but he was instrumental to the victory.

Gah. I think I hate myself for that one.  

Edited February 13, 2019 by That Aud Smell

[erickompositör72]

I've posted this before, but the person I know on the inside (not affiliated with Sabres) told me that every front office knows that "O'Reilly's life off-the-ice is a mess, but on the ice, he brings in every night"

In a veteran locker room, there are people that can keep a character like that in check. On a young, impressionable team, like ours, it can be detrimental, especially when grooming a young leader (Eichel). Especially when the aforementioned "flawed character" individual fancies himself a leader on the team.

I'm sure JBott knew it was going to sting, short-term, to lose ROR. But he's not obsessed with short-term. As plenty have stated, the team is in-step with where we were hoping they'd be at this point, so we are actually not suffering as much as some make it out to be without him.

It was a calculated move, and it took balls to make it, and it highlights mgmt's philosophy on building a team (vis a vis talent, as well as "character")

 

The only other counter-argument to the above is "JBotts is dumb for making the move," which, IMO, lacks some nuance. Or, to be fair, if the above is all accurate, you can absolutely believe that JBott's reasoning is flawed, but you simply cannot prove it.

Edited February 13, 2019 by erickompositör72

[That Aud Smell]

^

Good take, and instructive  rumour/insight.

I don’t think there can be any dispute that something significant motivated JBOT to make a very difficult decision on ROR. From a strict on-ice hockey perspective, it made little sense. So ... something was obviously afoot.

[...]

1 hour ago, erickompositör72 said:

I've posted this before, but the person I know on the inside (not affiliated with Sabres) told me that every front office knows that "O'Reilly's life off-the-ice is a mess, but on the ice, he brings in every night"

In a veteran locker room, there are people that can keep a character like that in check. On a young, impressionable team, like ours, it can be detrimental, especially when grooming a young leader (Eichel). Especially when the aforementioned "flawed character" individual fancies himself a leader on the team.

I'm sure JBott knew it was going to sting, short-term, to lose ROR. But he's not obsessed with short-term. As plenty have stated, the team is in-step with where we were hoping they'd be at this point, so we are actually not suffering as much as some make it out to be without him.

It was a calculated move, and it took balls to make it, and it highlights mgmt's philosophy on building a team (vis a vis talent, as well as "character")

 

The only other counter-argument to the above is "JBotts is dumb for making the move," which, IMO, lacks some nuance. Or, to be fair, if the above is all accurate, you can absolutely believe that JBott's reasoning is flawed, but you simply cannot prove it.

Great post.  This meshes with the other, reliable, anecdotal evidence behind the move.

Of course, stat guys are gonna stat. Chemistry means nothing to them.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, erickompositör72 said:

I've posted this before, but the person I know on the inside (not affiliated with Sabres) told me that every front office knows that "O'Reilly's life off-the-ice is a mess, but on the ice, he brings in every night"

In a veteran locker room, there are people that can keep a character like that in check. On a young, impressionable team, like ours, it can be detrimental, especially when grooming a young leader (Eichel). Especially when the aforementioned "flawed character" individual fancies himself a leader on the team.

I'm sure JBott knew it was going to sting, short-term, to lose ROR. But he's not obsessed with short-term. As plenty have stated, the team is in-step with where we were hoping they'd be at this point, so we are actually not suffering as much as some make it out to be without him.

It was a calculated move, and it took balls to make it, and it highlights mgmt's philosophy on building a team (vis a vis talent, as well as "character")

 

The only other counter-argument to the above is "JBotts is dumb for making the move," which, IMO, lacks some nuance. Or, to be fair, if the above is all accurate, you can absolutely believe that JBott's reasoning is flawed, but you simply cannot prove it.

After the first year with ROR things weren't all that bad either right?  Things can still go sideways in St. Louis.  But this is exactly what I had heard and felt all along.

 

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

I think it's misleading to state it that way.

He was doing yeoman's work when aspects of the team were struggling around him, and he's still doing that work now that reinforcements have arrived.

Edit: If you'll allow it: Aragorn (from Lord of the Rings (sorry)) is slaughtering every orc in his path during a lengthy battle, but his fighting unit is ill-suited to the battle and losing. But, lo. A cavalry of men arrives (blowing the horn of ... something) and the tide steadily turns. Aragorn continues to do what he'd been doing. Good guys prevail. Aragorn may not have been the moving force in the turnaround, but he was instrumental to the victory.

Gah. I think I hate myself for that one.  

Well, St. Louis was a fine team last year until they decided to trade Stastny and take a little tumble.  This year they weren't winning.  ROR was doing his thing and he's still doing his thing.  He hasn't changed anything.  If the defense/goaltending doesn't show up, ROR would still be doing his thing and the Blues might be bad.  So, it's probably safe to say that he has an impact on things, but his impact has remained constant so he was not the catalyst for the change.

I think ROR is a better Stastny for the Blues, but not a massive improvement.  The Blues are talented enough to win without him too I believe.  Maybe not as much, but they'd be successful.  

I do like your analogy and totally understand what you are saying.  I guess it's like saying, if Aragorn wasn't there and the cavalry shows up, would they have been enough to turn the tide?

And now I hate you for making me use that analogy... ?

[That Aud Smell]

13 minutes ago, LTS said:

I do like your analogy and totally understand what you are saying.  I guess it's like saying, if Aragorn wasn't there and the cavalry shows up, would they have been enough to turn the tide?

[SDS]

3 hours ago, ... said:

Great post.  This meshes with the other, reliable, anecdotal evidence behind the move.

Of course, stat guys are gonna stat. Chemistry means nothing to them.

How many decades went by with the NYR trying to buy a Stanley Cup and it failed? These players aren't legos that just plug and play to form a winning team. Changing age, personal situations and environment are always changing their performance relative to the past.

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, ... said:

Great post.  This meshes with the other, reliable, anecdotal evidence behind the move.

Of course, stat guys are gonna stat. Chemistry means nothing to them.

This stat comment is just nonsense. 

It's nonsense because it's trying to invalidate an entire way to evaluate players. 

[...]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's nonsense because it's trying to invalidate an entire way to evaluate players. 

You're welcome to see it that way, but it depends on how you define "stat guy". The arguments surrounding keeping ROR all season are based on stats and how nice they look. Disagree?

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, ... said:

You're welcome to see it that way, but it depends on how you define "stat guy". The arguments surrounding keeping ROR all season are based on stats and how nice they look. Disagree?

Are you asking if people are using stats to justify or refute keeping ROR? What else should they use? Anecdotal evidence?

What's your argument then? Why wouldn't we be better with ROR, you can't use a single stat.