Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[inkman]

There's a big difference between making a sweeping accusation against a large group (the entire NHL) vs singling a guy out based on conjecture and publicly crucifying him without giving him a chance to defend himself.

 

I would not classify it as conjecture. It's information garnered by people I trust who have intimate knowledge of the situation. While it may seem like hocum, I'm usually the first to call BS, I trust the individuals who supplied the info implicitly.

[pi2000]

Dan Bylsma still sucks. 

 

That may be true, but he did better with less than what Housley was given.     That's an indisputable fact.

[Brawndo]

 

The only personal attack I've made is on Auston Matthews because he's a greedy, money hungry little bitch who only cares about himself... which is much different than singling a guy out based purely on conjecture.

I sincerely hope you are right on this one. I would love for either Chakya or Lou give him an offer sheet with max cap value next summer.

[pi2000]

I would not classify it as conjecture. It's information garnered by people I trust who have intimate knowledge of the situation. While it may seem like hocum, I'm usually the first to call BS, I trust the individuals who supplied the info implicitly.

 

I believe that you believe it. 

[sabresparaavida]

A tribute video for a guy who played on a last place team for 3 years? Why don't we salute the guy standing over the deep fryer while we're at it?

We might as well... He's done more to make fans happy than ROR did.

[That Aud Smell]

Take possession stats for example.... WSH had only the 24th best SAT% during the season, yet they win the Cup.    I was told (by many folks on here) that wasn't possible, and the reason BUF sucked so bad under Bylsma was because of their dismal possession numbers.    ######.

 

I was watching a World Cup game - before the knockout rounds started - and a commentator was observing, rather wryly, that the two teams pitted against each other wouldn't know how to go about winning the match because both teams predicated their success not on possession, but on skillful counter-attacking. For the life of me, I can't recall who the two teams/countries were. But my sense is that they were both fairly good sides.

 

I realize it's a bit of apples and oranges, but it did provide me with some food for thought on the subject of possession as an end-all-be-all advanced stat.

[pi2000]

my favorite ROR moment:

 

[LTS]

my favorite ROR moment:

 

 

Being drunk will increase your chances of falling down.

[Drunkard]

I would not classify it as conjecture. It's information garnered by people I trust who have intimate knowledge of the situation. While it may seem like hocum, I'm usually the first to call BS, I trust the individuals who supplied the info implicitly.

 

I agree and I trust that Dark and Eleven are truthfully reporting what they've been told, but I don't like the fact that it was merely alluded to for various players on the team while O'Reilly was here and now that he's gone it's suddenly ok to name names. Why is it only ok to attach a name once that player leaves? It's got a touch of pissing on someone's grave type feel to it, sour grapes, scorned lover, or whatever you want to call it.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Alkoholist

[Hoss]

Being drunk will increase your chances of falling down.

Perfect :lol:

[pi2000]

Being drunk will increase your chances of falling down.

 

Good one.  har. har.

[Doohicksie]

Top 1-2 center pairs in the NHL based of Goals Against Replacement. 

 

Warning: Don't look at this if you're still mad about the trade. It might actually kill you

 

https://i.imgur.com/gulNa5b.jpg

 

I'm such a nerd.... I'm looking at that chart and figuring out how it was made in Excel.

Yes. Literally all three of them. They could have picked any 1 of them. 

 

But there's no significant data as a center for any of them.

That may be true, but he did better with less than what Housley was given.     That's an indisputable fact.

 

So what you're saying is that if we had HCDB still, we wouldn't have Dahlin.

I agree and I trust that Dark and Eleven are truthfully reporting what they've been told, but I don't like the fact that it was merely alluded to for various players on the team while O'Reilly was here and now that he's gone it's suddenly ok to name names. Why is it only ok to attach a name once that player leaves? It's got a touch of pissing on someone's grave type feel to it, sour grapes, scorned lover, or whatever you want to call it.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.  :angel:

[pi2000]

So what you're saying is that if we had HCDB still, we wouldn't have Dahlin.

 

That's true, but BUF would still have ROR and Evander Kane and they'd be coming off their first playoff appearance in 8 seasons.

[Drunkard]

I'm such a nerd.... I'm looking at that chart and figuring out how it was made in Excel.

 

But there's no significant data as a center for any of them.

 

So what you're saying is that if we had HCDB still, we wouldn't have Dahlin.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.  :angel:

 

Hell hath no fury like a Buffalo fan scorned that's for sure. I've got a buddy who decked out his spare bedroom in all Bills stuff. He still refuses to have any Thurman Thomas memorabilia though because he played with the Dolphins for half a season.  

[Taro T]

That may be true, but he did better with less than what Housley was given. That's an indisputable fact.

It is. Dan (Dick Jouron) Bylsma coaches to keep games close & play a really boring style. Much like Dick Jouron's coaching led persistently to 7-9 finishes w/ the occasional (ok, 1) good season, Bylsma's helps truly bad teams approach 0.500, mediocre teams approach 0.500, & excellent teams approach 0.500 w/ the occasional (ok, 1) good season thrown it.

 

Bylsma already lucked into his one Therrien induced good season. Really had no desire to watch dull hockey eventually lead to upper 80's in the standings. (Though it did save me money by not having playoff tickets to buy.)

 

And, if Housley's squad is as bad out of the gate as it was last year, punt his arse as well.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Taro T

[That Aud Smell]

That's true, but BUF would still have ROR and Evander Kane and they'd be coming off their first playoff appearance in 8 seasons.

 

Lord help us. 

 

Let's pour some out on the curb for small ice and grindin' them b1tches down.

[Randall Flagg]

Laughed at that as well, but who else is there? Berglund? Reinhart? Mittelstadt?

Mitts doesn't have the sample size, Reinhart is a winger at this point, it's measuring a stat based on guys playing center, and maybe Berglund played wing OR is just zero/negative goals above replacement based on how they calculated the stat.

[Eleven]

I agree and I trust that Dark and Eleven are truthfully reporting what they've been told, but I don't like the fact that it was merely alluded to for various players on the team while O'Reilly was here and now that he's gone it's suddenly ok to name names. Why is it only ok to attach a name once that player leaves? It's got a touch of pissing on someone's grave type feel to it, sour grapes, scorned lover, or whatever you want to call it.

 

Pretty sure that I had posted something about it before.  Maybe I hadn't.

[Randall Flagg]

That's true, but BUF would still have ROR and Evander Kane and they'd be coming off their first playoff appearance in 8 seasons.

They went from 81 points to 78 and paced for 55 points over Bylsma's last 30 games, or almost half the season, which is 7 points lower than this year. They freaking improved on the resultant of Bylsma hockey to finish in last place.

 

You need to get over your infatuation with a guy whose system sucked and who had no answers to the single first adjustment ever made to it, or any answers to being a manager on the personal relationship side of things. 

 

He sucked and deserved to go, regardless of how much worse we got hiring a rookie GM/coach combo. 

[Drunkard]

Pretty sure that I had posted something about it before.  Maybe I hadn't.

 

If you did, I missed it and I read almost every post on here other than skipping a few OT threads about stuff I don't care about like soccer, hunting, star wars, etc. If you had named names, I'm sure it would have made much bigger waves on the board. I could be wrong though.

 

Either way, I appreciate the insider scoop, even if it is after the person leaves town. Extra info is why I read almost every post on here (that and having a desk job where I'm overqualified so I have tons of reading time on my hands).  

Edited July 3, 2018 by Alkoholist

[pi2000]

They went from 81 points to 78 and paced for 55 points over Bylsma's last 30 games, or almost half the season, which is 7 points lower than this year. They freaking improved on the resultant of Bylsma hockey to finish in last place.

 

You need to get over your infatuation with a guy whose system sucked and who had no answers to the single first adjustment ever made to it, or any answers to being a manager on the personal relationship side of things. 

 

He ###### sucked and deserved to go, regardless of how much worse we got hiring a rookie GM/coach combo. 

 

I think if they kept Bylsma, with a healthy Eichel and an improved supporting cast, I believe they would've made the playoffs last season.     Boring hockey or not, they had a good enough roster to push for a playoff spot playing the same way that got them to 81 points in Eichel's rookie season.    Sure, maybe they max out there and don't win a series, but still.... that's a better result and probably better psychologically for the young players than what happened last season.

 

At least under Bylsma's watch we didn't hear about all this locker room dischord... with guys getting run out of town as a result.    He at least got them to show up most nights and win some games.    I believe, if given the chance, he would've adapted his style to fall more in line with the modern game.. (which IMO goes in cycles anyway).   

 

That said, I think pretty soon a big heavy physical team is going to win a Cup or two and the entire dynamic will shift again.     There are just too many small players, and pretty soon a big heavy team will be able to just out physical them and ride a stud goalie with big physical defensemen all the way to the promised land. 

 

And I hate the idea of constantly trying to chase the latest trend in the game, only to be left behind when the trend changes as it does every 5-6 years.    Just draft good hockey players, big or small, fast or slow (well maybe not too slow)... and build your team with some identity in mind... stick to it no matter what, and eventually you'll find success.   

[Doohicksie]

That's true, but BUF would still have ROR and Evander Kane and they'd be coming off their first playoff appearance in 8 seasons.

 

Disagree.  Kane still gets traded because the Sabres were not going to sign him anyway (not that they're not happy with him, more that they weren't about to pay 7x7 for him).  And with Lehner in goal, we're still not making the playoffs.

And, if Housley's squad is as bad out of the gate as it was last year, punt his arse as well.

 

Yes.  I can only be so patient.

 

Last year he was inventing his system, teaching to the players before it was fully invented, and evaluating talent.

 

This year the system will be similar, more than half the team will be familiar with it, and the new faces should be able to just join in.  If that's not the case, then it's time for a new coach.

[Taro T]

I think if they kept Bylsma, with a healthy Eichel and an improved supporting cast, I believe they would've made the playoffs last season.     Boring hockey or not, they had a good enough roster to push for a playoff spot playing the same way that got them to 81 points in Eichel's rookie season.    Sure, maybe they max out there and don't win a series, but still.... that's a better result and probably better psychologically for the young players than what happened last season.

 

At least under Bylsma's watch we didn't hear about all this locker room dischord... with guys getting run out of town as a result.    He at least got them to show up most nights and win some games.    I believe, if given the chance, he would've adapted his style to fall more in line with the modern game.. (which IMO goes in cycles anyway).   

 

That said, I think pretty soon a big heavy physical team is going to win a Cup or two and the entire dynamic will shift again.     There are just too many small players, and pretty soon a big heavy team will be able to just out physical them and ride a stud goalie with big physical defensemen all the way to the promised land. 

 

And I hate the idea of constantly trying to chase the latest trend in the game, only to be left behind when the trend changes as it does every 5-6 years.    Just draft good hockey players, big or small, fast or slow (well maybe not too slow)... and build your team with some identity in mind... stick to it no matter what, and eventually you'll find success.

 

Agree w/ the bolded. But remember, even though the philosophy has become speed & transition, the core of this team: Eichel, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Reinhart, & (if he is core, not sure anymore) Ristolainen are all tall & will fill out when fully grown. (Guhle is seriously strong as well & probably is expected to be in Buffalo for a long spell as well.) This team will still have enough size to not be pushed around if another Kings squad comes around.

 

Expecting they will have a good mix of size & speed for the foreseeable future w/ the trend to filling in w/ speed guys.

[inkman]

Good one. har. har.

Is your name Cal and do you have an irrational hatred of alex Nylander?

Edited July 3, 2018 by inkman

[Doohicksie]

At least under Bylsma's watch we didn't hear about all this locker room dischord... with guys getting run out of town as a result.    He at least got them to show up most nights and win some games.    I believe, if given the chance, he would've adapted his style to fall more in line with the modern game.. (which IMO goes in cycles anyway).  

 

None of this is true.  Right from the start there was the controversy with ROR and the cloud of dubious character followed Kane from WPG.  No, he really didn't get them to show up consistently.  And no, there was no adapting his style.  He didn't do it at all while he was here, there's no reason to think he would start to do so.