Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[dudacek]

This has occurred to me.  It may be my gravest concern.  What a dilemma.   Do you keep the Emperor, or the boy who called "no clothes"?

 

Building around an incomplete piece is much more difficult when the incomplete piece is the centerpiece.

This is our biggest worry.

Botterill took a year to examine the team and has decided that he’s all-in on the kids.

But what if Jack is the problem?

[Doohicksie]

FWIW, Andy Strickland was on WGR this morning and my take was that he pointed the finger at Jack. His claim is that he has spoken to other vets who didn't mesh well with him.

Could be. Maybe he chafes under the "tutelage" of vets that he doesn't respect.  Should he respect his elders?  This iteration of the Sabres will live and die with Jack Eichel.  If he doesn't mesh well with older players, give him the C and see if he can do any better.

 

(Note that while I hope he can, I wouldn't be surprised if it backfires and we end up moving him.)

[TrueBlueGED]

This is our biggest worry.

Botterill took a year to examine the team and has decided that he’s all-in on the kids.

But what if Jack is the problem?

 

Then we're either screwed or Dahlin is good enough to make it right.

[Georgia Blizzard]

Let's face it.  GMTM's blueprint was to accelerate the rebuild and in essence, he only delayed it further.  If J Bot was making these kind of moves 3 years ago, we'd all be applauding.  He inherited a mess and is cleaning it up 

[Doohicksie]

Strickland. Right after he said Berglund was about as a great a guy to have (he said he literally has never heard a bad thing about from ANY teammate, past or present), he hinted that there has been more than one veteran Sabre who did not get on well with Eichel.

 

ROR.  Gio.  Maybe Gorges.  Is this a surprise?

 

Maybe even Moulson.  Imagine being in your 30s and you're asked to host the team's future in your home with your family.  There are happy videos showing how great the arrangement works, but I can see where the arrangement could have gotten old before too long.

[TrueBlueGED]

Let's face it.  GMTM's blueprint was to accelerate the rebuild and in essence, he only delayed it further.  If J Bot was making these kind of moves 3 years ago, we'd all be applauding.  He inherited a mess and is cleaning it up 

 

Well, he is certainly trying to clean it up. Whether he is or not remains to be seen.

[wsam4031]

Who is saying actively pushed for Tage Thompson?  He may have been pushing for Thomas or Parayko and the Blues wouldn't budge.

 

I get it though.  I would have loved to hear Parayko's name.  But I honestly believe Bots did the best he could, and to grill him otherwise isn't right.  The keys to this are the two first round picks.  Sobotka and Berglund are additional assets that are still productive NHL players and are better than the crap we have floating around our bottom six.

we got 1 first round pick that is lottery protected and a 2nd in 3 years. People think he pushed for Tage which I can see because he played NCAA hockey. We all know how Bobblehead feels about college hockey players

[shrader]

He backed himself into a psychological corner by feeling he had to move O'Reilly. I don't think there's a reasonable way to look at the trade as anything other than being desperate to get rid of the guy. We are neither faster, nor younger, nor better right now. So in a way, he didn't have all of the options and leverage in the world....though the restrictions were self-imposed, in this case.

 

They have a boatload of money coming off the cap in two years.  I haven't really explored to see if there's anything to that year or if it's just a coincidence.  It's still a year short of Dahlin's second contract kicking in.  I know no one wants to hear it, but that could be the year they're targeting for things to take off.

[TrueBlueGED]

They have a boatload of money coming off the cap in two years.  I haven't really explored to see if there's anything to that year or if it's just a coincidence.  It's still a year short of Dahlin's second contract kicking in.  I know no one wants to hear it, but that could be the year they're targeting for things to take off.

 

Short of Botterill outright saying it, I couldn't be more certain that their target date for competitiveness is the 2020 season. Everything points to it.

[Derrico]

This is our biggest worry.

Botterill took a year to examine the team and has decided that he’s all-in on the kids.

But what if Jack is the problem?

This is a huge concern. But what if jack was a self entitled ass the first year or two in the league as 19/20 year old but starts to learn what it takes? I may be wrong but his defensive play, hustle and interviews the second half of the season were night and day compared to early in the year. Maybe it's wishful thinking but maybe a 21 year old or however old he is maybe is starting to get it. His D play and back checking was impressive to me the second half of the year.

[Georgia Blizzard]

This is a huge concern. But what if jack was a self entitled ass the first year or two in the league as 19/20 year old but starts to learn what it takes? I may be wrong but his defensive play, hustle and interviews the second half of the season were night and day compared to early in the year. Maybe it's wishful thinking but maybe a 21 year old or however old he is maybe is starting to get it. His D play and back checking was impressive to me the second half of the year.

 

If you're not sure, watch locker clean out interviews --- 

[Neo]

This is our biggest worry.

Botterill took a year to examine the team and has decided that he’s all-in on the kids.

But what if Jack is the problem?

 

 

I know nothing about the room.   However, I've seen nothing that tells me you put a "C" on the Eichle's sweater.   I hear he hates to lose.   Unfortunately, I hear it from him, and no one else.

 

I'll be relieved if he is named Captain.   That would tell me that the learned see something.   Hallelujah ...

[Randall Flagg]

In the offseason Matt Duchene literally talked about not even showing up to training camp and for an eighth of a season played like dogshit without speaking to anybody. His previous immediate seasons were worse than ROR's and he got Ottawa's Jack Hughes first rounder, a 2nd, a 3rd, and 3 prospects and 1 cap dump (Hammond), Girard, one of the prospects, is better than any piece in our deal. 

Like, all that stuff happened and they STILL brought Duchene back after FORTY EIGHT POINTS in the standings, and then traded the worse player for better return to "fix the locker room" later, for a return that I'd cream my jeans to flip our sack of junk for.

And Sakic isn't even a freaking good GM.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

This is a huge concern. But what if jack was a self entitled ass the first year or two in the league as 19/20 year old but starts to learn what it takes? I may be wrong but his defensive play, hustle and interviews the second half of the season were night and day compared to early in the year. Maybe it's wishful thinking but maybe a 21 year old or however old he is maybe is starting to get it. His D play and back checking was impressive to me the second half of the year.

I saw this too. I have reason to hope and to think the Sabres have been grooming him for this.

[Randall Flagg]

I saw this too. I have reason to hope and to think the Sabres have been grooming him for this.

Me three on the Eich's figuring it out train. 

 

And he's doing it despite his situation. 

 

Sorry Rasmus, but I don't think anyone can remove Jack from being #1 in my heart.

[Randall Flagg]

Here's a St. Louis reporter on Jack: I talk to players that play with O'Reilly and I can see Eichel uh you know he got the big contract. Ryan O'Reilly wouldn't be the first one who's probably a little frustrated with Jack Eichel. I've heard that from some other veterans who've been there the last few years and I think Eichel will figure things out, the more he comes along as an NHL player and the more experience he gets but from talking to other players who've played with O'Reilly they rave about his leadership skills in terms of being a role model for younger players and the work ethic he brings to the rink every day.

 

And we've heard the exact opposite from other guys. Rumors are trash and are even worse coming from people who in general haven't taught me or anyone else anything valuable about the game of hockey or the NHL. 

 

We're going to be so busy jettisoning anyone that isn't a choir boy that we'll forget that we need to build a hockey team at some point. Oh wait, that's the entire last five goddamn years 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[Utica Club]

My brother, who follows the Sabres, is of the belief that O'Reilly was a locker room cancer.  My opinion is that "cancer" is somewhat overstated, and trading O'Reilly will leave a big hole in the Sabres roster.

 

I think the Sabres will miss having a defensively responsible match-up center, who's good at face offs and seems to be clutch from what I've seen of him internationally at the World Championships for team Canada.

 

For those who follow more closely than me, how did it get to this point - that the Sabres had to get rid of O'Reilly? 

[Eleven]

Anyone wanna now say that Botterill got fleeced on that SJ deal with Kane?

 

I said it then.

[Hoss]

In the offseason Matt Duchene literally talked about not even showing up to training camp and for an eighth of a season played like dogshit without speaking to anybody. His previous immediate seasons were worse than ROR's and he got Ottawa's Jack Hughes first rounder, a 2nd, a 3rd, and 3 prospects and 1 cap dump (Hammond), Girard, one of the prospects, is better than any piece in our deal.

 

Like, all that stuff happened and they STILL brought Duchene back after FORTY EIGHT POINTS in the standings, and then traded the worse player for better return to "fix the locker room" later, for a return that I'd cream my jeans to flip our sack of junk for.

 

And Sakic isn't even a freaking good GM.

You’re going to have to take solace in the fact that our GM felt this was a good deal as do very many well-connected people in the NHL. I saw an almost universal appreciation for the deal by Sabres writers and national guys up front then came here and saw nothing but hate for the deal.

I’m on the fence on it. I think the value is what it was supposed to be.

[Doohicksie]

My brother, who follows the Sabres, is of the belief that O'Reilly was a locker room cancer.  My opinion is that "cancer" is somewhat overstated, and trading O'Reilly will leave a big hole in the Sabres roster.

 

I think the Sabres will miss having a defensively responsible match-up center, who's good at face offs and seems to be clutch from what I've seen of him internationally at the World Championships for team Canada.

 

For those who follow more closely than me, how did it get to this point - that the Sabres had to get rid of O'Reilly? 

 

Go back and read the whole thread.  We're all trying to figure it out.

 

And welcome to the forum.  I like the username/picture.  :)

[That Aud Smell]

My brother, who follows the Sabres, is of the belief that O'Reilly was a locker room cancer.  My opinion is that "cancer" is somewhat overstated, and trading O'Reilly will leave a big hole in the Sabres roster.

 

I think the Sabres will miss having a defensively responsible match-up center, who's good at face offs and seems to be clutch from what I've seen of him internationally at the World Championships for team Canada.

 

For those who follow more closely than me, how did it get to this point - that the Sabres had to get rid of O'Reilly? 

 

First of all: Welcome aboard.

 

Second of all: Fantastic avatar.

 

Third of all: O'Reilly became a mopey emo passive aggressive navel gazer who bummed the young fellas the hell out. Botterill (JBOT) knew what he had to do.

 

Fourth of all: Just kidding about the "third of all" above. Sort of. Mostly. It's not entirely clear why JBOT had decided that O'Reilly had to go. But it is clear JBOT had thusly decided.

[Doohicksie]

You’re going to have to take solace in the fact that our GM felt this was a good deal as do very many well-connected people in the NHL. I saw an almost universal appreciation for the deal by Sabres writers and national guys up front then came here and saw nothing but hate for the deal.

I’m on the fence on it. I think the value is what it was supposed to be.

 

I think you're describing a "fair deal."  Half the people love it, half the people hate it.

[Randall Flagg]

You’re going to have to take solace in the fact that our GM felt this was a good deal as do very many well-connected people in the NHL. I saw an almost universal appreciation for the deal by Sabres writers and national guys up front then came here and saw nothing but hate for the deal.

I’m on the fence on it. I think the value is what it was supposed to be.

There aren't a lot of people that talk about this trade on twitter and radio shows whose opinions on hockey mean anything to me, to be honest. Hall for Larsson was great for the Oilers in their eyes, as was PK-Weber for Montreal. Tough, but necessary moves. 

 

And Botterill doesn't give my solace by virtue of being an NHL GM, especially when stupid-me was able to predict the depth scoring problem that he made worse as the initial moves were being made. I judge the move on the merits of things I know and nothing more, and nothing less, while trying at all times to absorb as much new information as I can. 

 

Especially when I can pinpoint where we differentiate - they view Berglund and Sobotka both as they were 4 years ago and thus adding value to the deal when every bit of evidence in the world suggests we could have grabbed the both of them for virtually nothing, as their own GM's words suggest he's been trying to dump them for a long time now.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[Utica Club]

Go back and read the whole thread.  We're all trying to figure it out.

 

And welcome to the forum.  I like the username/picture.  :)

 

 

First of all: Welcome aboard.

 

Second of all: Fantastic avatar.

 

Third of all: O'Reilly became a mopey emo passive aggressive navel gazer who bummed the young fellas the hell out. Botterill (JBOT) knew what he had to do.

 

Fourth of all: Just kidding about the "third of all" above. Sort of. Mostly. It's not entirely clear why JBOT had decided that O'Reilly had to go. But it is clear JBOT had thusly decided.

 

Thanks!

 

It's going to be one hell of an interesting year regardless of what their record is.  I'm excited to see how Ulmark does, how "amazing" Dahlin is, and if the Sabres can improve at all.

 

I'm also a little curious to see how much O'Reilly might improve the Blues this year.

[Randall Flagg]

I'm not presenting this as a point but it's an amusing exercise: It was suggested to read the forums of neutral fan bases, their "wider NHL" threads around the time the trade went down. I've read probably 10 at this point and we've been uniformly laughed at in every single one. Not just questioned, laughed at. 

And this shouldn't convince anyone of anything, of course, but people who want to argue against it should note that others feel the same way towards the "experts." 

With the caveat that I can go to another team's forum and learn an in-depth injury history of their 9th best prospect, what skating adjustments were made to their 3rd line wing, nuances at the heart of their goaltender's rebound problem, and how the left-wing lock works within 30 seconds, whereas blue checkmark rumor monger who loves the trade can only tell me that Berglund is gritty and that Botts had 4 offers for Kane until a week later when he never had any offers for Kane. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg