Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[TrueBlueGED]

PHam said ROR would ignore Eichel during on-ice celebrations and even said that he was told to "cut it out" -- he also said that he thought ROR had a problem with Eichel, but Eichel didn't have any issues with ROR

 

The Pham interview places more blame on ROR than Eichel and goes far enough to sound like ROR was petty and even jealous

 

Hamilton has also called Reinhart and Risto uncoachable. His interpretation of interpersonal relationships on the team has no value to me.

 

And not for nothing, but what if O'Reilly's problems with Eichel were justified? 

Edited July 2, 2018 by TrueBlueGED

[wsam4031]

Botterill once again mentioned Reinhart’s ability to play center tonight. I think they’ll give him another run there.

Great! he was awesome at Center when we tried him there last year this team is a mess

[darksabre]

Hamilton has also called Reinhart and Risto uncoachable. His interpretation of interpersonal relationships on the team has no value to me.

 

And not for nothing, but what if O'Reilly's problems with Eichel were justified?

I have heard some things that lend credence to the idea of Risto as uncoachable.

[Randall Flagg]

Hamilton has also called Reinhart and Risto uncoachable. His interpretation of interpersonal relationships on the team has no value to me.

 

And not for nothing, but what if O'Reilly's problems with Eichel were justified? 

I thought Eichel and Reino were the drunk-before-game party boys and ROR was just sad. We finished in last place and Michael Ferland has more ES goals than Eichel in a vacuum so I think I know what has to happen next.

 

^stat isn't completely accurate but deliberate hyperbole

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[WildCard]

And not for nothing, but what if O'Reilly's problems with Eichel were justified? 

I have a feeling they were. Watching Jack the last two years, I wouldn't be surprised at all

[Doohicksie]

I can be fine with the logic (not the trade value) if we had more than 2 players with a demonstrated ability of either tilting ice or scoring points (and neither does both) at a high level in the NHL. 

 

That's the problem with a young team:  Very little is "demonstrated."  You're going on potential.  Potentially, Casey can do that.  Potentially, Dahlin can too.  Maybe even Guhle.  I think few here would not want them on the team.  But as of yet they are unproven quantities.  JBot is picking up several depth players counting on the fact that some (but not by any means all) of those players will also help tilt the ice.  XGMTM counted on getting a small number of very talented players to turn things around, but if they didn't all hit big, the team failed.  JBot builds talent at the farm and once he sees who executes well he will promote them.  But he's bringing in enough talent that not all the gambles need to pay off for the team to improve.

[TrueBlueGED]

I have heard some things that lend credence to the idea of Risto as uncoachable.

 

Yet, for whatever reason, Hamilton hasn't gone on a "he must go" crusade like he did for O'Reilly. 

[Georgia Blizzard]

Hamilton has also called Reinhart and Risto uncoachable. His interpretation of interpersonal relationships on the team has no value to me.

 

And not for nothing, but what if O'Reilly's problems with Eichel were justified? 

 

Maybe they are justified.  But, if the so-called "culture" is an issue between 2 of your best players and you need to pick one, you pick Eichel every day and twice on Sunday over ROR.

 

Pham talked about on-ice observations, not sure anyone noticed the same (i.e. celebrations, body language etc.)

 

Either way, it's clear that J Bot is ALL IN on Eichel, an up tempo style and building through winning at all levels, oh yes, and he loves Swedes and Americans

[Doohicksie]

The more I think about the trade, the more I think they're just warm bodies included to make the money work and be roster placeholders to give some of our kids (Asplud, Olofsson, etc.) time in Rochester. The core of the trade is the futures.

 

Yes, that's it.  They will eat enough minutes to protect Mittelstadt until he's ready to assume his role.

[darksabre]

Yet, for whatever reason, Hamilton hasn't gone on a "he must go" crusade like he did for O'Reilly. 

Risto, I think, is less detrimental. He's probably a 3/4 D going forward and his lack of coachability doesn't sink him in that role. He's just a big dummy who plays his game his way and that's all there is to it. 

[shrader]

The idea that Thompson is lacklustre because Kyrou and Thomas are better is false. It’s like saying Brendan Guhle is a bad prospect because Mittelstadt and Dahlin are better.

 

A good amount of this perception is based off of the media prospect rankings we've seen thrown around.  We've got the perfect recent example of how much those things vary from team to team.  Take a look at the draft every single year.  How many times during the course of just the first round do you hear/read "but that guy was ranked XX picks later"?  It's safe to say that those published rankings aren't exactly bible.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Maybe they are justified.  But, if the so-called "culture" is an issue between 2 of your best players and you need to pick one, you pick Eichel every day and twice on Sunday over ROR.

 

Pham talked about on-ice observations, not sure anyone noticed the same (i.e. celebrations, body language etc.)

 

Either way, it's clear that J Bot is ALL IN on Eichel, an up tempo style and building through winning at all levels, oh yes, and he loves Swedes and Americans

Another reasonable Georgian. It must be the water here.

[Doohicksie]

Thompson is only 20 years old.  Yes, he didn't do much last season but who was he playing with: scorers, checkers, penalty killers?  We may have something here; we may not.  But he's an interesting proposition.  It's too early to be judgemental.  Hopefully he'll develop and contribute down the road.

 

He's got skill.  He needs to learn positioning.  In the Welcome Tage thread I posted some video.... he may have the 2nd best shot on the team after Jack.  He has a similar release on his wrister, where he looks like he's just playing with the puck and then suddenly he's finished his follow-through the twine at the back of the net moves as the goal is scored.

[pi2000]

The more I dissect this, the more I point the finger at Housley.    When your team doesn't have anybody worthy of the Captaincy... you better have a head coach with a very very strong personality to get everybody pulling in the right direction.   Housley is not that guy.    

 

Do you think ROR gets traded if a guy like Babcock, Gallant, Tippett or Tortorella are behind the bench... nipping all this squabbling Sabre's stuff in the bud before it ends with All-Star talents getting shipped out of town for nickels on the dollar?   

 

Let's not lose sight of the fact that all these locker room issues are happening under Housley's supervision.    But Phil is teflon and everybody loves him because he's not Dan Bylsma (who took a less talented Eicheless for half-a-season team to a 20 point better finish).

Edited July 2, 2018 by pi2000

[LGR4GM]

Bylsma was and is garbage

[Sabre fan]

The more I dissect this, the more I point the finger at Housley.    When your team doesn't have anybody worthy of the Captaincy... you better have a head coach with a very very strong personality to get everybody pulling in the right direction.   Housley is not that guy.    

 

Do you think ROR gets traded if a guy like Babcock, Gallant, Tippett or Tortorella are behind the bench... nipping all this squabbling Sabre's stuff in the bud before it ends with All-Star talents getting shipped out of town for nickels on the dollar?   

 

Let's not lose sight of the fact that all these locker room issues are happening under Housley's supervision.    But Phil is teflon and everybody loves him because he's not Dan Bylsma (who took a less talented Eicheless for half-a-season team to a 20 point better finish).

Yikes you are sure cruising for a vicious attack by a ton pf readers on here...I totally agree though that Disco Dan actually got far more out of the team and got nothing but fired. And I also agree that trading anybody who has the nerve to actually say out loud "gee it sure sucks to lose every year" and does not agree with the fact that for every game jack plays good, he takes 2 or 3 off (or more). GMJBotto clearly is in love with Jack and will do anything to appease him but I think this trade clearly is a big step back.

 

You have a guy in OReilly is world-class talent, and th ebest faceoff man in the entire NHL (and that's pretty cool) and a guy who takes on the best centerman the other team has and still gets you 25 to 30 goals). That is pretty amazing and he was totally under-appreciated here. Ii am glad he is now wiith   a team that has talent and will win and he can contribute.

 

As for the upcoming season, we'd better hope jack decides he has to produce every night now because he has no more excuses. I'll believe that happens when I see it.

[Doohicksie]

The two are not mutually exclusive.   You can keep ROR and build the farm team. 

 

I won't argue that point.  In fact, I was expecting ROR ultimately wouldn't be traded. 

 

The point I was making is that once the decision to trade ROR was made, the return JBot was looking for was not predicated on bringing back a package to replace ROR *right now*, but rather was looking further into the future, grabbing a prospect with a lot of size and a great shot that may be a future piece of a potent power play, and a couple of draft picks, along with two vets who can eat up some minutes until the youth on the farm is developed and mature enough to jump to the NHL.

[WildCard]

Anyone wanna now say that Botterill got fleeced on that SJ deal with Kane?

[Neo]

 

 

And not for nothing, but what if O'Reilly's problems with Eichel were justified? 

 

This has occurred to me.  It may be my gravest concern.  What a dilemma.   Do you keep the Emperor, or the boy who called "no clothes"?

 

Building around an incomplete piece is much more difficult when the incomplete piece is the centerpiece.

[TrueBlueGED]

Anyone wanna now say that Botterill got fleeced on that SJ deal with Kane?

 

No, because he literally had no options. The return sucked, but given the circumstances, it was always going to suck. He had no leverage there.

[Taro T]

The more I dissect this, the more I point the finger at Housley.    When your team doesn't have anybody worthy of the Captaincy... you better have a head coach with a very very strong personality to get everybody pulling in the right direction.   Housley is not that guy.    

 

Do you think ROR gets traded if a guy like Babcock, Gallant, Tippett or Tortorella are behind the bench... nipping all this squabbling Sabre's stuff in the bud before it ends with All-Star talents getting shipped out of town for nickels on the dollar?   

 

Let's not lose sight of the fact that all these locker room issues are happening under Housley's supervision.    But Phil is teflon and everybody loves him because he's not Dan Bylsma (who took a less talented Eicheless for half-a-season team to a 20 point better finish).

If they start slow again & the lines/usage are as poor as last year, then absolutely Housley is on the hot seat & shouldn't last past our Thanksgiving. (And, when Trotz became available, Phil should have been offered an Associate Head coach position, the Amerks job (though Taylor seems to be doing well), or simply a pink slip.)

[WildCard]

No, because he literally had no options. The return sucked, but given the circumstances, it was always going to suck. He had no leverage there.

So in the exact opposite scenario his return still sucks despite all the options and leverage in the world

[Georgia Blizzard]

The more I dissect this, the more I point the finger at Housley.    When your team doesn't have anybody worthy of the Captaincy... you better have a head coach with a very very strong personality to get everybody pulling in the right direction.   Housley is not that guy.    

 

Do you think ROR gets traded if a guy like Babcock, Gallant, Tippett or Tortorella are behind the bench... nipping all this squabbling Sabre's stuff in the bud before it ends with All-Star talents getting shipped out of town for nickels on the dollar?   

 

Let's not lose sight of the fact that all these locker room issues are happening under Housley's supervision.    But Phil is teflon and everybody loves him because he's not Dan Bylsma (who took a less talented Eicheless for half-a-season team to a 20 point better finish).

 

Happened under Bylsma, too -- and Roy 

Anyone wanna now say that Botterill got fleeced on that SJ deal with Kane?

 

1st and 4th for expiring contract, getting fleeced, how so ?

 

and, in the spirit of secondary benefits for those tank lovers . . . . made the team worse in short term to secure last place and win lottery and get Dahlin

Edited July 2, 2018 by Georgia Blizzard

[TrueBlueGED]

So in the exact opposite scenario his return still sucks despite all the options and leverage in the world

 

He backed himself into a psychological corner by feeling he had to move O'Reilly. I don't think there's a reasonable way to look at the trade as anything other than being desperate to get rid of the guy. We are neither faster, nor younger, nor better right now. So in a way, he didn't have all of the options and leverage in the world....though the restrictions were self-imposed, in this case.

[WildCard]

Happened under Bylsma, too -- and Roy 

 

1st and 4th for expiring contract, getting fleeced, how so ?

He got lucky on the 1st. His guaranteed return was a 5/10 prospect and a 4th. Not great

He backed himself into a psychological corner by feeling he had to move O'Reilly. I don't think there's a reasonable way to look at the trade as anything other than being desperate to get rid of the guy. We are neither faster, nor younger, nor better right now. So in a way, he didn't have all of the options and leverage in the world....though the restrictions were self-imposed, in this case.

The picture this paints is absolutely hilarious :lol: