Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[dudacek]

You know, we could be right and O’Reilly is special, Sobotka and Berglund are cap dumps and the other three elements magic beans.

Or, the rest of the hockey world could be right and O’Reilly is very good, but not special, Sobotka and Berglund are useful third liners, Thompson is a solid prospect and a first and a second are valuable assets.

 

Truth is probably somewhere in between. I plan to watch and find out.

 

We once traded the best goalie in the history of the game for the 30th pick in the draft and a whiny Russian. We won a presidents trophy five years later.

 

The hyperbole in here tonight is kinda funny.

Edited July 2, 2018 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

Wow, 18 pages of............

 

JBot slammed a door and proclaimed the culture HAD to be changed.

 

Is it not obvious that that is exactly what he has done? Everyone who has been mentioned as a possible locker room problem (not confirmed, it rarely is, but "possible") is now gone. So now there is no excuse on that level. If the losing culture, failure to compete continues next year then we know he tagged the wrong guys and then...........it's who.........Jack? Sam? ..........Well we shall now see right? 

 

It's now ready for a new culture to take hold. That is step one. Forward from here on in.

 

BUT, this is going to take a long time and we will not be good until Dahlin is an allstar and we have a top goalie and so much more.  

[nucci]

For the first time in several years I feel like we're moving in a positive direction.  I'm glad Lehner, Kane and ROR are no longer voices being heard in our locker room.  We're loaded with prospects and brought in some NHL players to help the young stars take over.  They're from successful organizations and I think they'll help.  

This team has always been loaded with prospects and draft picks.......but still in last place.....when does this end?

Kane and ROR are very good proven NHL producers but they're not leaders that young good players can learn from.  On teams where they won't be expected to be leaders and just produce - they'll do fine in that role.  We needed them to lead and play well and they failed to lead - they likely had negative effects.  Obviously we knew Kane wasn't a leader but I think most of us expected ROR to be one.  Lehner, IMO, was a head case and I'm glad he's gone.  

 

Maybe JBot knows Sheary and these new vets can bring a different attitude while this team builds it's lineup through it's very young prospects.  We're going to be very good folks - it's just going to take time.  While we wait it's important the young guys develop leadership skills while playing with vets that know how to play the right way.  

 

Fresh team, new attitude, a ton of viable prospects, 3 -1st round picks and I'm happy where we're headed.  

 

I hated our team the last two years - I hated it.  I didn't want to build upon it - I wanted a totally different roster and we're getting it.  

Been hearing that for years now

[Huckleberry]

This trade is still sinking in and seems underwhelming.

 

When the season ended Jbot said he wanted to improve even strenght scoring.    O'Reilly got most of his points on the PP.

The picks we got are good, Thompson I barely know anything about.

 

I do think Samson will go back to Center and I like it tbh, his line had good offensive possesion stats last year, but he had no finishers :( 

[Sabre fan]

It is obvious GMJBotto was looking to make this team totally his and move anything exGMTM brought in. While I think this trade is absolutely garbage and that OReilly is being made one of the big reasons this team sucked I also think thi sis now GMJBotto's team and now we have to go through like another 2 or 3 years to see if what he has done will work and make this team any better. I still think exGMTM coul dhave done anything

 

GMJBoto has done to this point. Is the team better? It certainly is younger and for sure has better potential somewhere doiwn the road what with all these good young players and draft picks. Guess we just have to be patient. Th eone thing I do always question is getting a 1st from a team like San Jose or St. Louis when in fact their 1st is almost like a 2nd in reality because they are both good teams and will finish high in standings. The 1st fron St. Louis does not excite me at all...

[Hoss]

When Pegula took over, the team was perpetually on the playoffs bubble. Perpetually drafting in the middle of round 1, with no star players to build around. His directive was to build a team that contends year in and year out FOR THE CUP.. and he said "if you want to watch the Sydney Crosby's you have to get the Sydney Crosby's."

 

Enter Tim Murray and the tank wars. Draft Eichel and Reinhart, trade for O'Reilly... this team was set down the middle for the next decade, which is something ALL Championship teams have in common.

 

Fast forward to today.... JBOTs trades away one of the best 2way centers in the game for bag of turds. This was a last place team WITH O'Reilly, it will be a last place team without him.

 

O'Reilly wasn't holding this team back. Larsson, Girgensons, Pouliot, Josefson, Bogo, etc... those are the guys that need to be replaced NOT the second best player on your roster. Those bottom sixers could've been replaced last season, if not last summer, then at the deadline for a late round pick or whatever... thats how you change the culture. Move out the guys that have been poisoned by the tank and let them start fresh elsewhere.

 

I feel sick about this O'Reilly trade. This puts BUF back to where they were before the tank.... with the likes of Larsson, Girgensons, Bogosian still poisoning the bench, etc.

How does this trade put them “back to where they were before the tank” in regards to Girgensons and Larsson, both of whom likely don’t have a place in the lineup right now?

[nfreeman]

"If Taylor Hall was so good and Adam Larsson so bad, why did Taylor Hall only yield Adam Larsson? Maybe Hall just isn't as good as you think."

 

Still interesting?

Hall wasn’t auctioned off in the same way ROR was.

[That Aud Smell]

Which makes me wonder why we didn't just keep him

I’m underwhelmed by what came back.

 

But I think SDS has a very fair point: The market spoke.

 

To this point — if ROR’s on ice value outweighed his trade value, then keep him — I think posters here are operating in a bit of an “all things being equal” sort of bubble.

 

While I didn’t sleep much last night in my old, radiator heated, no AC ducted house, I woke up feeling like this was a trade made of absolute necessity and therefore from a position of weakness for the Sabres. I get the sense that ROR wanted *out* and that bringing him back was *not* an option.

 

So, he yielded a couple of bodies, a decent prospect, and a 1st and 2nd.

 

It’s better than a sharp stick in the eye.

Why exactly did he need to go?

My theory: Because he basically demanded a trade.

[North Buffalo]

I’m underwhelmed by what came back.

 

But I think SDS has a very fair point: The market spoke.

 

To this point — if ROR’s on ice value outweighed his trade value, then keep him — I think posters here are operating in a bit of an “all things being equal” sort of bubble.

 

While I didn’t sleep much last night in my old, radiator heated, no AC ducted house, I woke up feeling like this was a trade made of absolute necessity and therefore from a position of weakness for the Sabres. I get the sense that ROR wanted *out* and that bringing him back was *not* an option.

 

So, he yielded a couple of bodies, a decent prospect, and a 1st and 2nd.

 

It’s better than a sharp stick in the eye.

 

My theory: Because he basically demanded a trade.

Either that or JBOTS basically had the same reaction that Torterella had without the potty mouth.

[SDS]

Hall wasn’t auctioned off in the same way ROR was.

The other piece in this was clearing cap room to bring in Lucic.

[inkman]

Am I the only one who believes this happened largely because ROR wanted it to?

Nope whether consciously or subconsciously, he orchestrated it.

[Radar]

I have all along said how much I like ROR. Also that if he's traded it's not because of his play. I have to believe that either he asked to be traded or there was something in the speculation of locker room discord. At the end of the day we got what speculation was saying was the asking price. A 1st,prospect and roster players. I was a ROR fan but they got actually more than I expected at the end of the day.

[nfreeman]

My 2 cents:

 

- there has been plenty of sky-is-falling hyperbole in here but also plenty of excellent hockey talk.

 

- I think the TBPHD camp — ie those who wouldn’t have traded ROR for this package or really anything less than a socks-knocked-off offer — is well underestimating the impact of chemistry and interpersonal dynamics. It’s not just about the stats. What they’ve had for the past few years has clearly not worked. JB and PH are hockey lifers who were in a far better position than any of us to observe ROR and his impact on the rest of the team. I’m willing to accept their conclusion that they could not continue to have ROR on the team.

 

- there’s also quite a bit of premature judging of Thompson in here, along with declarations that he wasn’t a top prospect for STL. Dobberhockey, an excellent site, had him as their #3 prospect last fall (ahead of Kyrou and Dunn), and I saw a blues fan site that named him this spring as one of their “big 4.” So he certainly could turn into a very good young winger.

 

- Serious question for those unhappy with the trade: assuming this was in fact the best that could be obtained for ROR, and that any trade for a different Sabres core piece would have yielded a similarly disappointing return, would you have wanted to go into next season without having made a major “shakeup” trade?

[Stoner]

- Serious question for those unhappy with the trade: assuming this was in fact the best that could be obtained for ROR, and that any trade for a different Sabres core piece would have yielded a similarly disappointing return, would you have wanted to go into next season without having made a major “shakeup” trade?

If Jason is going to "slow jam" the Sabres and do a glacial rebuild, then if the return was poor, bring ROR back and try again at some point. Eleven might be the only other one with me on this, but as in the Kane trade, Botterill has to draw the line and say, "Not enough." It will pay off in future trades. And it's all aboat the future, baby!

Edited July 2, 2018 by PASabreFan

[MODO Hockey]

Why is people so frustrated, it cant be worse than last season can it. 

I mean, obviously ROR was traded for something that does not have much to do with his abilitys on ice.

 

Chill the fk out until December and we will see, not much else we can do either other than speculating for ever

[Sherman]

Does anyone know when a team in the NHL has traded away a top prospect in their organization, a young core type of player and a #1 for one hockey player straight up? Also, who was the player in return and what were the general feelings about the trade at that time?

 

I’m asking because it seems like those were the only trade proposals that many people would have accepted and I don’t remember any.

[bob_sauve28]

This team has always been loaded with prospects and draft picks.......but still in last place.....when does this end?

Been hearing that for years now

It probably never ends, you should always be bringing in new, young talent. I see this as a good trade because ROR won't be even playing when this young core is moving into their prime, or even maturing. This is a young league, ROR already had a surgery for his groin, now in two years, as Jack and company are hitting stride reinforcements will be filtering in. Thompson and the draft picks will be playing in this league years after ROR is off to retirement land.

 

I like the trade.

[freester]

1.  I wish Sully and Bucky were still around to comment on this epic disaster of a trade.

 

2.  Once Sabres are eliminated from playoffs by Thanksgiving, the call to fire Housley will be overwhelming

 

3.  The thing about being a sabres fan is that its always important to scout who will be top players at next; years draft..I'm  excited for Jack Hughes

[That Aud Smell]

If Jason is going to "slow jam" the Sabres and do a glacial rebuild, then if the return was poor, bring ROR back and try again at some point. Eleven might be the only other one with me on this, but as in the Kane trade, Botterill has to draw the line and say, "Not enough." It will pay off in future trades. And it's all aboat the future, baby!

What GM has ever turned that purported trick and thereby taught the market a lesson?

 

As if. Markets are markets. They bear what they will.

 

The idea that you’d retain a player that’s a depreciating asset and is anathema to your room/culture, just so you can “show” how you won’t be “had” is one that just doesn’t wash.

 

The team was the worst in the league. They needed a firm shake up.

[LGR4GM]

Improving team speed with two slower forwards than ROR and a prospect noted for being slow...

 

Fitting the age better with two old cap dumps to go with a prospect that no Blues fan had in their top 4...

 

Dumping a big contract by adding an identical cap hit for the next two seasons...

So I am trying to actually verify but I have read some things that Thompson has worked on his skating and it is improved. For me Thompson is the key to this deal and he has to work out. He does have a great shot so there is that. 

[bob_sauve28]

Worst team in league makes a trade, fans scream the sky is falling. Really??

[miles]

I think this is a trade to get rid of ROR and nothing more. It was clear he and jack didnt get along. This is jacks team and i think this proves it. They got 2 picks and and some decent nhl talent for someone who quit on the team and couldn't have looked less interested. I wish we could go back to the game day threads and find how many times we complained about ROR not looking like he gave a hoot

[LGR4GM]

I also think I may have been thinking of Logan Stanley not Tage Thompson last night when it came to large guy way overdrafted. 

[That Aud Smell]

I also think I may have been thinking of Logan Stanley not Tage Thompson last night when it came to large guy way overdrafted. 

 

I don't know who either of these dudes are, but this post made me chuckle for some reason.

 

Maybe it's the names.

 

They'd look right at home in that "all lacrosse name" bracket that Deadspin used to do.

[Weave]

 

- there’s also quite a bit of premature judging of Thompson in here, along with declarations that he wasn’t a top prospect for STL. Dobberhockey, an excellent site, had him as their #3 prospect last fall (ahead of Kyrou and Dunn), and I saw a blues fan site that named him this spring as one of their “big 4.” So he certainly could turn into a very good young winger.

 

- Serious question for those unhappy with the trade: assuming this was in fact the best that could be obtained for ROR, and that any trade for a different Sabres core piece would have yielded a similarly disappointing return, would you have wanted to go into next season without having made a major “shakeup” trade?

I can only hope that StL big 4 has more upside than our big 4 of Carrier, Baptiste, Bailey, and Fasching. At this point I have no confidence that Thompson isn’t equivalent to Baptiste at best and Fasching at worst.

 

I would have gone into the season with ROR on the roster before making this move. The only way I choose otherwise is if he indicated that he wants out.