Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'm intrigued by Thompson.  He's only 20 and is 6' 5" 190.  He needs to add size to his frame and probably will.  The reports I have read say he skates well and has a great shot.  He's played 41 NHL games.  If Nylander needs more time and to be patient, why not this kid?? Seems like a more skilled Adam Creighton.

 

A more skilled Dave Andreychuk would be nice.

[TrueBlueGED]

It was implied by a tweet from St. Louis earlier in the thread.  Without context it's hard to know what that means.  If they didn't offer any of their top prospects, JBot may have requested Thompson out of what was available.

 

My snark about the NCAA and American stuff aside, that's my guess as to what happened. 

[Trettioåtta]

So we trade a 1C for two 3rd liners in their 30s, a low first, low second and a B grade prospect.

 

Pominville, Moulson, 1st, 2nd and Pu for McDavid?

 

Man I despise this return. I hope Armstrong at least used lube.

 

Well Eichel, this is your team now. Let's see if you have any desire to play defense, as you now have no help for those tough minutes.

 

JBot... you are on the clock. This is your team now, and you only have a 18.5% shot at Hughes.

 

For once can we get a GM who doesn't just throw away our assets for free? Who would have thought the best GM by a country mile in the last decade as Regier

[Iron Crotch]

Since it was so bothersome, I'm going to apologize for my emotional explosion here. 

 

My real problem is that I see a bad trade as a culmination of bad asset management dating back to Botterill's first decisions here, and it makes me equally pessimistic about the future in a league with high parity and high turnover. In today's NHL, you have to practically try to be this bad for this long and in my eyes we've shown no ability to line-build, line-match, or roster-build on the level of even average NHL teams that we blew things up to stop being.

 

Werd. We've been terrible for almost a decade. I think most of us are going to be naturally skeptical at this point, especially when we see a trade that doesn't pass the eye test. Trying to spin everything as a great move just doesn't resonate when we've seen move after move yield null results over the past several season. In this case, we let our second leading scorer, best defensive forward, and the best faceoff guy in the NHL walk for a marginal prospect, two salary dump forwards and a couple of picks (the 1st is cap protected BTW - we don't get it if it is top-10). Scoring 60 points on the worst offensive team in hockey is nothing to sneeze at. We were poor offensively last season and we just let two of the few guys who can put the puck in the net (Kane, ROR) leave. Dahlin will help greatly, but I just don't see any way this team isn't at the bottom of the standings again this season. Our overall talent pales in comparison to our rivals.

[Two or less]

Damn, CallawaySabres, props on the leak.

 

Huge respect for getting the info and running to your friends on SS to share it.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Jack Eichel signed an 8-year, $80 million contract. He's ostensibly going to get the C. If he had to be told to be a leader, we're probably in bad shape on that front.

I view it as a leadership team. If O'Reilly didn't get along with jack then you need to choose one. And I'm picking the guy who actually produces 5 on 5.

[Sabel79]

So little of what you’re describing is Botterill though. He’s been on the job one year now. Are you counting anything beyond Kane-O’Reilly to that bad asset management? Yeah, I realize those are two big fish right there if you are in fact right, but I’m trying to get a feel for anything else you might be talking about.

What’s becoming very obvious is that this team is coming dangerously close to bills territory where the actions of each GM can easily wind up being lumped together into one giant ball of crap... the new guy automatically gets lumped in with his predecessors

Which is quite troublesome when the current GM’s predecessor was perhaps the most toxic incompetent to ever have held the post. In

Buffalo, anyway.

[Trettioåtta]

I view it as a leadership team. If O'Reilly didn't get along with jack then you need to choose one. And I'm picking the guy who actually produces 5 on 5.

 

What about the one who doesn't float for 100 of the 200 foot rink?

 

How many more points has Eichel put up than ROR in their time together? 

[Derrico]

And? I'm genuinely not sure the point you're making here.

 

Pominville scored 34 points on a 106-point Minnesota team. They still couldn't wait to get rid of him. He came here and continued to suck. Sometimes bad players play roles on good teams while actually being bad.

Not trying to just single you out but many seem to forget that we took pommers to get scandella. Secondly, we gave away Ennis as part of the swap. I believe Minny has or plans to buy him out.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Engineered his exit? He used the means available to him (offer sheet) to squeeze Colorado to pay him his value. It's not his fault Colorado was cheap and didn't want to pay him more than Duchene.

Go back and look at all his negotiations with Colorado. I came away with the idea is that he is a me first guy. Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid, but this is a team game and teams have salary structure. We can argue later the merits off Duchene over ROR, and his tactics worked and he got paid. However, he seems to care more about adding a few extra $ to his wallet then whether the team would win. That is an attitude we don’t need.

[Tondas]

A more skilled Dave Andreychuk would be nice.

 

Yes it would.  Creighton played in over 700 NHL games and was a .57 PPG player.  Would the Sabres take that from Thompson today?? 

[shrader]

Which is quite troublesome when the current GM’s predecessor was perhaps the most toxic incompetent to ever have held the post. In

Buffalo, anyway.

They need to write a book on all of that. There’s so much incompetence to go around. I’d love to read the chapter titled LaFontaine”.

[TrueBlueGED]

Werd. We've been terrible for almost a decade. I think most of us are going to be naturally skeptical at this point, especially when we see a trade that doesn't pass the eye test. Trying to spin everything as a great move just doesn't resonate when we've seen move after move yield null results over the past several season. In this case, we let our second leading scorer, best defensive forward, and the best faceoff guy in the NHL walk for a marginal prospect, two salary dump forwards and a couple of picks (the 1st is cap protected BTW - we don't get it if it is top-10). Scoring 60 points on the worst offensive team in hockey is nothing to sneeze at. We were poor offensively last season and we just let two of the few guys who can put the puck in the net (Kane, ROR) leave. Dahlin will help greatly, but I just don't see any way this team isn't at the bottom of the standings again this season. Our overall talent pales in comparison to our rivals.

 

I'm as annoyed as anyone today, and I definitely don't think we make a playoff push in light of this trade. BUT. Our goaltending was below replacement level. If we just get league average tending, and literally nothing else improves, we'll see a decent jump in points. I also wouldn't be surprised (note, I wouldn't bet on it) if Mittelstadt has a Keller-like rookie season. Kid is a stud. Dahlin, even as a rookie, upgrades our blue line. Housley might improve in year 2. I think some of the other kids could surprise. I don't expect Reinhart to look like an AHL player for half the season. And I'm also not banking on Eichel suffering another sprained ankle.

 

We can be better, and still bad. In fact, that's what I think happens. I eagerly await people attributing the betterness to the locker room, while I point to everything I just said as the reasons. Fun times ahead on Sabrespace! :lol:

[7+6=13]

JBot getting pissed in February said everything to me.  He knew this team needed new leadership and he is making changes.  I like it.  

 

What an absolutely awful team to watch last year.   Slow and not competing is unacceptable.  

 

Starting over is the right decision especially when our best player is not even 22.  The future looks so bright I'm really surprised at some of the veteran posters on here.

[SDS]

So we trade a 1C for two 3rd liners in their 30s, a low first, low second and a B grade prospect.

 

Pominville, Moulson, 1st, 2nd and Pu for McDavid?

 

Man I despise this return. I hope Armstrong at least used lube.

 

Well Eichel, this is your team now. Let's see if you have any desire to play defense, as you now have no help for those tough minutes.

 

JBot... you are on the clock. This is your team now, and you only have a 18.5% shot at Hughes.

 

For once can we get a GM who doesn't just throw away our assets for free? Who would have thought the best GM by a country mile in the last decade as Regier

ROR is not a 1c on a competitive team.

[TrueBlueGED]

Not trying to just single you out but many seem to forget that we took pommers to get scandella. Secondly, we gave away Ennis as part of the swap. I believe Minny has or plans to buy him out.

 

Minny did buy him out. Frankly, I view that trade as Scandella for Foligno, as Ennis and Pominville are a wash for terribleness. If we needed the cap space, I suspect Pominville might also have been bought out.

[Trettioåtta]

I'm as annoyed as anyone today, and I definitely don't think we make a playoff push in light of this trade. BUT. Our goaltending was below replacement level. If we just get league average tending, and literally nothing else improves, we'll see a decent jump in points. I also wouldn't be surprised (note, I wouldn't bet on it) if Mittelstadt has a Keller-like rookie season. Kid is a stud. Dahlin, even as a rookie, upgrades our blue line. Housley might improve in year 2. I think some of the other kids could surprise. I don't expect Reinhart to look like an AHL player for half the season. And I'm also not banking on Eichel suffering another sprained ankle.

 

We can be better, and still bad. In fact, that's what I think happens. I eagerly await people attributing the betterness to the locker room, while I point to everything I just said as the reasons. Fun times ahead on Sabrespace! :lol:

 

I really don't like that we are now penciling in a guy with 6 NHL games to be our 2C and a stud for us. It might be true and everything works out and he becomes the first Sabre in a long time to put up 70 points, and when Eichel is injured for 20+ games again he steps up to the 1C...

 

But it feels like nothing has changed in 5 years. We are rushing our prospects into positions to fail in. Vanek played on the third line his rookie season and it worked very very well

[Sabel79]

 

You know, I’m old enough to remember the Molginy trade (I realize many of you are much older than that, but go with me). Even the 11:00 news was ready to burn down the Aud. Headlines like “CONN JOB!!!!!” (Because Rob Conn...) were the norm. Then this Peca kid nobody had ever heard of or thought about if they had turned into a player. A damned good one. Pulled from the ashes of an absolute no hope situation.

 

It’s possible, again... could also be a flaming tire fire but none of us knows.

[LikeEich]

Cgy acquired Hamilton for 1st 2ndx2

Flames acquire hamonic & 4th for 1st 2ndx2

 

Heard alot of people saying they would be okay with one of these players ^ in a one for one trade... We acquired a 1st and a 2nd plus plus plus. Not saying we will flip them but this is the value these picks carry. If you were expecting a Mitts level prospect plus plus plus probably why it seems so much worse

[Trettioåtta]

ROR is not a 1c on a competitive team.

 

He is a top 30C

[7+6=13]

ROR is not a 1c on a competitive team.

 

That's exactly right.  

[3putt]

My opinion of this deal is that JBOT is giving Eichel the leadership of this team, he will live or die with this move. I would venture to say Eichel was the problem moreso than Oreilly. Time will tell..

Based on what? This the weirdest take on this whole trade. The issue isn’t who is the problem the issue is the solution didn’t make the team better. Say it was Jack and they traded him for this “haul”. Is the team better? No. GM Bobblehead didn’t get assets back to make this team better today. Maybe he trades picks or whatever or gets lucky in the draft. Great. But trading an asset like ROR should get back quality not quantity. Winnipeg is looking for a center, what about Ehlers straight up? That helps us today. The only thing I am certain of in this deal,is that Bobblehead felt he had to move him. Why? I have no idea. And frankly I don’t care. But to panic because of some facetious deadline about the bonus and garner a return that doesn’t help today is ludicrous.

 

If ROR orchestrated this, then even less reason to accomodate him. Sakic waited out he market on Duchesne and got twice the haul as part of the solution.

[TrueBlueGED]

Go back and look at all his negotiations with Colorado. I came away with the idea is that he is a me first guy. Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid, but this is a team game and teams have salary structure. We can argue later the merits off Duchene over ROR, and his tactics worked and he got paid. However, he seems to care more about adding a few extra $ to his wallet then whether the team would win. That is an attitude we don’t need.

 

You're coming dangerously close to a Pi-level line of thought here :p

 

Anyway, I think every athlete is a me-first guy when it comes to contracts. And I don't begrudge them that at all. I admire those who take discounts to help the team, but by no means should it be the expectation, nor should we infer that those who want to maximize their value are inherently bad teammates.

[Trettioåtta]

Go back and look at all his negotiations with Colorado. I came away with the idea is that he is a me first guy. Nothing wrong with wanting to get paid, but this is a team game and teams have salary structure. We can argue later the merits off Duchene over ROR, and his tactics worked and he got paid. However, he seems to care more about adding a few extra $ to his wallet then whether the team would win. That is an attitude we don’t need.

 

Talking of $ over winning. This is our 60 point centre's first season as as one of the top 5 most highly paid players. Let's hope he can finish within the top 50 this time!

[TrueBlueGED]

I view it as a leadership team. If O'Reilly didn't get along with jack then you need to choose one. And I'm picking the guy who actually produces 5 on 5.

 

I'm absolutely picking Eichel over O'Reilly as well. I just quibble with the notion it was an either-or proposition while suggesting that if it had to be an either-or proposition, that probably doesn't speak well of leadership of the guy who remains.