LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Maybe I am wrong, but he seems like a guy that is fast and big and has used that to play very well against smaller kids. Even then he really hasn't exactly dominated; Wahlstrom blew him outta the ###### water in the same league USDP seasons for the two Wahlstrom -> 48-46-94 Tkachuck -> 25-29-54 Tkachuk: 0.885ppg and 0.410gpg Wahlstrom: 1.516ppg and 0.774gpg Oof. What are their games played? 61 games - Tkachuk 62 games - Wahlstrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Oof. What are their games played? Jack Hughes factor? 62gp for Wahlstrom and 61gp for Tkachuk Granted it does look like Wahlstrom put those numbers up in his draft year, whereas Tkachuk did it in the year prior to his draft year. In the year prior to Wahlstrom's draft year, in that league he had 10-5-15 in 20gp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Wahlstrom is going to be a really good player IMPO. https://canucksarmy.com/2018/06/15/canucksarmys-2018-nhl-draft-rankings-5-oliver-wahlstrom/ There are a lot of players that can rip the puck, but Wahlstrom sees the ice well enough that he can find the soft areas in defensive zone coverage. The way he can slip into prime areas unnoticed and fire off a one-timer or a wrist shot with laser-like accuracy reminds me a bit of Canucks wunderkind Brock Boeser… the difference being that Wahlstrom can play centre, and his skating and shot are more advanced than Boeser’s were at his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Maybe I am wrong, but he seems like a guy that is fast and big and has used that to play very well against smaller kids. Even then he really hasn't exactly dominated; Wahlstrom blew him outta the ###### water in the same league USDP seasons for the two Wahlstrom -> 48-46-94 Tkachuck -> 25-29-54 I would disagree on the "fast" assertion. Speed is still something he needs to work on. However, name one person on our existing roster that is not 4th line that brings an edge to his game and causes the other team's D to look over their shoulder. Who on our roster has a net front presence to "push back" vs. just take it or avoid contact. He has better hands than Wilson as a comparison. He is absolute top 5 talent in this draft in a fairly strong class....maybe not a lot of generational talent in this class, but good depth. Is there another Tkachuck further down? Maybe, but I like Brady Tkuchuck because he is naturally 'wired' to play a tough aggressive game vs. having to be taught to hopefully do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Wahlstrom is going to be a really good player IMPO. I really want him. One of the few things I'd be willing to part with RoR or Sam for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 62gp for Wahlstrom and 61gp for Tkachuk Granted it does look like Wahlstrom put those numbers up in his draft year, whereas Tkachuk did it in the year prior to his draft year. In the year prior to Wahlstrom's draft year, in that league he had 10-5-15 in 20gp Brady Tkachuk was born on Spetember 16th 1999. Oliver Wahlstrom was born on June 13th 2000. Wahlstrom played that USHL we are comparing at age only 3 months older than Tkachuk did. Their 17 year old years can be compared in the USHL because of this. Basically Tkachuk had just turned 17 when his USHL year started and Wahlstrom was 3 months older at the start of his USHL year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I would disagree on the "fast" assertion. Speed is still something he needs to work on. However, name one person on our existing roster that is not 4th line that brings an edge to his game and causes the other team's D to look over their shoulder. Who on our roster has a net front presence to "push back" vs. just take it or avoid contact. He has better hands than Wilson as a comparison. He is absolute top 5 talent in this draft in a fairly strong class....maybe not a lot of generational talent in this class, but good depth. Is there another Tkachuck further down? Maybe, but I like Brady Tkuchuck because he is naturally 'wired' to play a tough aggressive game vs. having to be taught to hopefully do so. Right but again, you can get these guys anywhere. Spending a top 5 pick on a guy you want to 'push back' and gave an 'edge to his game' is just insane to me. These aren't difficult skill sets to come by Brady Tkachuk was born on Spetember 16th 1999. Oliver Wahlstrom was born on June 13th 2000. Wahlstrom played that USHL we are comparing at age only 3 months older than Tkachuk did. Their 17 year old years can be compared in the USHL because of this. Basically Tkachuk had just turned 17 when his USHL year started and Wahlstrom was 3 months older at the start of his USHL year. Ah so it really wasn't that far of a gap then. Then yeah, Wahlstrom blew Tkachuk outta the water. And that's with Takchuk being bigger and stronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 62gp for Wahlstrom and 61gp for Tkachuk Granted it does look like Wahlstrom put those numbers up in his draft year, whereas Tkachuk did it in the year prior to his draft year. In the year prior to Wahlstrom's draft year, in that league he had 10-5-15 in 20gp Ah, that makes more sense. I was going to say that a discrepancy that big should have Wahlstrom talked about a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Ah, that makes more sense. I was going to say that a discrepancy that big should have Wahlstrom talked about a lot more. Well refer to Liger's post. Wahlstrom was only 3 months older Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) Right but again, you can get these guys anywhere. Spending a top 5 pick on a guy you want to 'push back' and gave an 'edge to his game' is just insane to me. These aren't difficult skill sets to come by Ah so it really wasn't that far of a gap then. Then yeah, Wahlstrom blew Tkachuk outta the ###### water. And that's with Takchuk being bigger and stronger I wouldn't say Tkachuk is stronger than Wahlstrom. Wahlstrom is 6'1.25" 208lbs. He a tank. Tkachuk is 6'3" 191lbs Edited June 22, 2018 by Skurk Liger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Right but again, you can get these guys anywhere. Spending a top 5 pick on a guy you want to 'push back' and gave an 'edge to his game' is just insane to me. These aren't difficult skill sets to come by Ah so it really wasn't that far of a gap then. Then yeah, Wahlstrom blew Tkachuk outta the ###### water. And that's with Takchuk being bigger and stronger First, yes I would agree....Walhstrom would be awesome too, maybe for other reasons and strengths. However, I think you are missing my point. Tkachuck brings both grit and scoring that can help create more space for Jack or Casey. He has the hands to play on first or second line vs. just being a gritty 4th liner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 First, yes I would agree....Walhstrom would be awesome too, maybe for other reasons and strengths. However, I think you are missing my point. Tkachuck brings both grit and scoring that can help create more space for Jack or Casey. He has the hands to play on first or second line vs. just being a gritty 4th liner. I mean I understand what you're saying, I think we just value things differently. We just had that guy in Evander Kane, and we got rid of him I wouldn't say Tkachuk is stronger than Wahlstrom. Wahlstrom is 6'1.25" 208lbs. He a tank. Tkachuk is 6'3" 191lbs Did not realize Wahlstrom was actually bigger, albeit a little shorter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Well refer to Liger's post. Wahlstrom was only 3 months older I think raw age, at that small of a difference, matters less than the step you're at, if that makes any sense at all. Pre-draft season is pre-draft season, stuff like that. Also, Jack Hughes is a thing. But I share some level of concerns about Tkachuk's ability as a hockey player, at least in discussions at 3rd overall. There's a bit too much talk about the other stuff when for me, when you're talking a pick that high, the far-and-away most important thing is ability to play hockey. Which I'm sure Brady does admirably, I haven't watched him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I think Tkachuk is probably going to be a good player. I don't think he has any chance of being a star. Wahlstrom does. But I don't think we're going to be in a spot to draft either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I think raw age, at that small of a difference, matters less than the step you're at, if that makes any sense at all. Pre-draft season is pre-draft season, stuff like that. Also, Jack Hughes is a thing. But I share some level of concerns about Tkachuk's ability as a hockey player, at least in discussions at 3rd overall. There's a bit too much talk about the other stuff when for me, when you're talking a pick that high, the far-and-away most important thing is ability to play hockey. Which I'm sure Brady does admirably, I haven't watched him I couldn't agree more with really every point you made in this post. Was not aware Wahlstrom played with Hughes either. Or that Hughes is a little guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) Brady Tkachuk was born on Spetember 16th 1999. Oliver Wahlstrom was born on June 13th 2000. Wahlstrom played that USHL we are comparing at age only 3 months older than Tkachuk did. Their 17 year old years can be compared in the USHL because of this. Basically Tkachuk had just turned 17 when his USHL year started and Wahlstrom was 3 months older at the start of his USHL year. Who else was on the team with each guy? Who did they play each year? The whole thing isn't a straight up comparison. The year of college development for Tkachuk is something that will weigh heavily in his favor. There's a big reason why David Quinn is with the Rags now. With Tkachuk, a team is going to get a player further along the developmental curve than Wahlstrom. I'd imagine teams look at that far more than comparing two non-overlapping seasons. edit: Look at the team stats from those two seasons: Wahlstrom: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0065622018.html Tkachuk: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0065622017.html There's obviously something there to suggest that a simple comparison of stats from one year to the next is missing something. Edited June 22, 2018 by shrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I couldn't agree more with really every point you made in this post. Was not aware Wahlstrom played with Hughes either. Or that Hughes is a little guy Hughes only played 36 games for the USHL this year. Wahstrom did spend time with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 If we ended up at 3, I don't think I could get mad about taking any of Hughes, Tkachuk, Zadina, Boqvist, Wahlstrom, and that center Montreal wants, just because I don't watch any of these guys enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Who else was on the team with each guy? Who did they play each year? The whole thing isn't a straight up comparison. The year of college development for Tkachuk is something that will weigh heavily in his favor. There's a big reason why David Quinn is with the Rags now. With Tkachuk, a team is going to get a player further along the developmental curve than Wahlstrom. I'd imagine teams look at that far more than comparing two non-overlapping seasons. That's a teams mistake then. Tkachuk may be further along his dev curve because he played in college last year but Wahlstrom is still a year younger and will play in college this year. At the same age in the same league, Wahlstrom drastically outscored Tkachuk. That would tell me that Wahlstrom has a better development curve. Now reaching the end of that curve is another argument entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I couldn't agree more with really every point you made in this post. Was not aware Wahlstrom played with Hughes either. Or that Hughes is a little guy I'm not worried about Wahlstrom playing with Hughes, because if we draft him, it's to play with Eichel. If we're drafting a winger that high, give me a trigger man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I'm not worried about Wahlstrom playing with Hughes, because if we draft him, it's to play with Eichel. If we're drafting a winger that high, give me a trigger man. For sure, but it could be a talking point when comparing production between two players. And I say that as someone who doesn't even know much about Hughes. I have seen a couple of his highlight videos, and he looks fun, like Kane, but is nothing like the horse centers America now has in Eich and Matthews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 For the record Brady Tkachuk played on a less talented USDP team but was 4th in scoring on that team behind: Evan Barrett, Grant Mismash, Josh Norris. Wahlstrom was first on his team in scoring followed by Joel Farabee and Jack Hughes. Farabee was at 76 points compared to Wahlstrom's 94. Again Jack Hughes only played 36 games and while he may have helped Wahlstrom's scoring, he didn't double it compared to Tkachuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Loving the rapid-fire facts this thread is pumping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 For the record Brady Tkachuk played on a less talented USDP team but was 4th in scoring on that team behind: Evan Barrett, Grant Mismash, Josh Norris. Wahlstrom was first on his team in scoring followed by Joel Farabee and Jack Hughes. Farabee was at 76 points compared to Wahlstrom's 94. Again Jack Hughes only played 36 games and while he may have helped Wahlstrom's scoring, he didn't double it compared to Tkachuk. I just edited in some links. The difference in team scoring between the two teams is huge. I don't know one of the coaches well, but I'd have to imagine that there was noticeable difference in styles there. We're dealing with apples and oranges here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I just edited in some links. The difference in team scoring between the two teams is huge. I don't know one of the coaches well, but I'd have to imagine that there was noticeable difference in styles there. We're dealing with apples and oranges here. I don't agree. If I agree with your premise I can't compare OHL socring to other OHL scoring between teams because the teams are different. That means that scoring has no impact on a prospect being good at the NHL level when we know it is quite the opposite. I am comparing Tkachuk and Wahlstrom because at the same age they played in the same League. Wahlstrom doubled Tkachuk's production. That isn't just a product of 36 games of Jack Hughes or a new style. That is player that has more talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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