LGR4GM Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: Ehhhh, I'm not so sure. I think you're projecting your values and principles onto the world of pro hockey players. I don't think these guys navel gaze like that. Marchand has a track record. It does not suggest that he's thin-skinned or easily rattled. What I think happened here is that Marchand demonstrated that he will step up and kick your ass if you do something that his team feels was needlessly disrespectful to him and his teammates. And I'd start deliberately doing that stuff. If he's going to react, awesome. Gets a good player at least 5min in the box.
LTS Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said: Ehhhh, I'm not so sure. I think you're projecting your values and principles onto the world of pro hockey players. I don't think these guys navel gaze like that. Marchand has a track record. It does not suggest that he's thin-skinned or easily rattled. What I think happened here is that Marchand demonstrated that he will step up and kick your ass if you do something that his team feels was needlessly disrespectful to him and his teammates. I know I am projecting my values onto things. Where you are mistaken is that hockey players are trained to navel gaze so they aren't distracted by puck movement and stick handling. What Marchand demonstrated is nothing the world didn't already know... he's a douche who has the ability to help his team when he's on the ice, not sitting in the penalty box, locker room, or press box. Just now, pi2000 said: It's not an issue of motivation. You can be motivated and playing hard and still get your butt kicked.... it happens. It has nothing to do with being thinned skinned. The game is tight, you make a good play, score whatever, then celly, point at the bench... do whatever IDGAF. You're up by 6 goals late in the game and you taunt the bench.... I'm sorry, that's a code violation. Marchand didn't attack him because he was butthurt.... he did it for no other reason than because he broke the code. Unless you've played at a high level, I don't expect you to understand the code. But it's there. And for good reason. Ahh the dismissive... "unless you've played at a high level". The "code" as you put it exists at many levels, in many ways. They are all variants of the same thing. Don't be foolish enough to think that it's something that can only be defined by those who've played at a certain level. Don't mistake my opposite position on the situation as ignorance of it. You speak to me as if I don't understand what Marchand was doing. I know what Marchand was doing, I know why he was doing it. I understand why he feels compelled to respond the way he did. I also understand why his "message" is meaningless. What did he prove? Who learned a lesson? Who, in the entire world, is now saying, "Oh hell, if we are up 7-0 on the Bruins we better not wave at them because that fool Marchand might jump us on the ice." The bottom line is that no one learned anything. No message was received. Brad Marchand was childish and resorted to the tried and true tactics of a neanderthal. If you can't figure out how to succeed, punch it. I am sure he felt better afterwards. Good for him. He still lost 7-0. The next time I saw him I would still be laughing.
pi2000 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, LGR4GM said: I called your take childish. I stand by that. Being taunted doesn't give you the right to punched someone. It accomplished nothing. If I were Ellers, I'd do it every game. Take NHL hockey out of the equation... you don't have a right to punch a guy in the face (that's assault) just because he's taunting you. You can walk away, yell back, call him names, whatever. That said, we're talking NHL hockey... where fighting is part of the game and it hasn't been completely outlawed because there's still a place for it... and this was one of those places.
Hank Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: I called your take childish. I stand by that. Being taunted doesn't give you the right to punched someone. It accomplished nothing. If I were Ellers, I'd do it every game. It's okay that you see it that way. I never said or implied that you were wrong. It's okay that you and I have different opinions. Let's move past it.
LGR4GM Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, pi2000 said: Take NHL hockey out of the equation... you don't have a right to punch a guy in the face (that's assault) just because he's taunting you. You can walk away, yell back, call him names, whatever. That said, we're talking NHL hockey... where fighting is part of the game and it hasn't been completely outlawed because there's still a place for it... and this was one of those places. I disagree but I do understand your point. Just now, Hank said: It's okay that you see it that way. I never said or implied that you were wrong. It's okay that you and I have different opinions. Let's move past it. Very well.
That Aud Smell Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, LTS said: Where you are mistaken is that hockey players are trained to navel gaze so they aren't distracted by puck movement and stick handling The who now? 6 minutes ago, LTS said: What Marchand demonstrated is nothing the world didn't already know... he's a douche who has the ability to help his team when he's on the ice, not sitting in the penalty box, locker room, or press box. With where that game was when this happened, any scoring Marchand might do was not really going to help his team. However, knocking Eller on his ass in response to what Eller did to Marchand's team has a very good chance of rallying the team and improving the esprit de corps following a rough loss.
LTS Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Take NHL hockey out of the equation... you don't have a right to punch a guy in the face (that's assault) just because he's taunting you. You can walk away, yell back, call him names, whatever. That said, we're talking NHL hockey... where fighting is part of the game and it hasn't been completely outlawed because there's still a place for it... and this was one of those places. If you need to resort to a physical response then how about this. The punishment fits the crime. Eller waved at the bench. He didn't cheap shot anyone. He didn't hit anyone really hard. He waved. A more appropriate response, would be to go and give his waving hand a "subtle" slash and let him know the next time he won't be able to move that hand for 6 weeks. Think about it. Where does Marchand go from here? Imagine what his response has to be if Tom Wilson runs McAvoy the way he did Sundqvist. Marchand will have to stab him with his skate.
pi2000 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, LTS said: The bottom line is that no one learned anything. No message was received. Brad Marchand was childish and resorted to the tried and true tactics of a neanderthal. If you can't figure out how to succeed, punch it. I am sure he felt better afterwards. Good for him. He still lost 7-0. The next time I saw him I would still be laughing. You really believe that? You don't think Eller will think twice about taunting the Bruin bench (or any team bench) the next time he scores in blowout? A lot of why the code is there is because you're working (playing) in front of tens of thousands of people. Imagine you're sitting at your cube, or wherever you work, with 20,000 people staring at you being critical of everything you do... then your co-worker comes by and starts taunting you in front of everybody just because you're having a bad day at work. That's unnecessary and classless, and while not against the rules, it needs to be policed and kept in check. 1
LTS Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, That Aud Smell said: The who now? With where that game was when this happened, any scoring Marchand might do was not really going to help his team. However, knocking Eller on his ass in response to what Eller did to Marchand's team has a very good chance of rallying the team and improving the esprit de corps following a rough loss. You watch the center of the body when defending, where the core goes, the play goes. So you are navel gazing.
LTS Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, pi2000 said: You really believe that? You don't think Eller will think twice about taunting the Bruin bench (or any team bench) the next time he scores in blowout? A lot of why the code is there is because you're working (playing) in front of tens of thousands of people. Imagine you're sitting at your cube, or wherever you work, with 20,000 people staring at you being critical of everything you do... then your co-worker comes by and starts taunting you in front of everybody just because you're having a bad day at work. That's unnecessary and classless, and while not against the rules, it needs to be policed and kept in check. No, I don't think he will care one bit. I sure as hell wouldn't. If a teammate came up to me and said, "There's no place for that." I would stop it. The co-worker who taunted me is demonstrating his lack of class. There's literally NOTHING I need to do to prove a point. If 20,000 people want to take his side, then punching him in the face isn't going to change anything. Marchand's response in front of 20,000 rabid Caps fans only served to cement Eller as more of a hero to them.
That Aud Smell Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, LTS said: You watch the center of the body when defending, where the core goes, the play goes. So you are navel gazing. 19 minutes ago, LTS said: The next time I saw him I would still be laughing. I can see this as well, btw. Both things can be true -- the Caps can be like "pssssh, idiot" and the Bruins can be like "YAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!"
pi2000 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, LTS said: If you need to resort to a physical response then how about this. The punishment fits the crime. Eller waved at the bench. He didn't cheap shot anyone. He didn't hit anyone really hard. He waved. A more appropriate response, would be to go and give his waving hand a "subtle" slash and let him know the next time he won't be able to move that hand for 6 weeks. Think about it. Where does Marchand go from here? Imagine what his response has to be if Tom Wilson runs McAvoy the way he did Sundqvist. Marchand will have to stab him with his skate. No. That's precisely why fighting is allowed in the NHL. It lets the players respond to thing like this without resorting to intentionally injuring another player to the point where he can't work.
That Aud Smell Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, LTS said: Marchand's response in front of 20,000 rabid Caps fans only served to cement Eller as more of a hero to them. I will disagree with this. If this were to happen to a Sabre, it'd be filed as something cringeworthy regarding that player.
pi2000 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, LTS said: No, I don't think he will care one bit. I sure as hell wouldn't. If a teammate came up to me and said, "There's no place for that." I would stop it. The co-worker who taunted me is demonstrating his lack of class. There's literally NOTHING I need to do to prove a point. If 20,000 people want to take his side, then punching him in the face isn't going to change anything. Marchand's response in front of 20,000 rabid Caps fans only served to cement Eller as more of a hero to them. I doubt any Caps fans look at Eller as a hero in this situation... I'm sure most (if not all) of his teammates agree that he crossed the line... some probably had a talk with him after the game... and most probably agree that what Marchand did was an acceptable response. Let's play hypothetical here... let's say there's no fighting allowed and Marchand doesn't go after Eller. Next game, to exact some level of retribution, some Boston player delivers a blindside hit on Eller into the boards and sends him to the hospital. Eller is inured and can't work for weeks or months. Is that better? Because like it or not, somebody on that Bruin bench is going to make sure there's some amount of revenge taken.... in this case it was Marchand and it was a harmless fight. Eller doesn't miss any games, he can work... just a few bruises. Much better outcome IMO.
Hank Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: I will disagree with this. If this were to happen to a Sabre, it'd be filed as something cringeworthy regarding that player. Yes, this crew around here would crush a Sabre for doing what Eller did.
That Aud Smell Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hank said: Yes, this crew around here would crush a Sabre for doing what Eller did. To be clear: I meant that as in something along these lines would be said over beers: "Ha - remember that guy? He was the one who scored late in that one blowout, then was a peacock about it to the other team, and [Opposing Player] effing caved his face in that same game."
pi2000 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 43 minutes ago, dudacek said: What is the good reason? Why is the code there in the first place? I'll try to explain.... It's there because... You're a professional. It's a job. No matter what team you're on, you're all there working for the same company, The NHL. Opponents are co-workers. At the end of the day, it's a brotherhood, you're all trying to make living doing this. It's a privilege. You're working in-front of tens of thousands of people in person, and thousands more in the media, watching on TV, etc... who critique every little thing you do. As a professional, you don't go out of your way to embarrass your co-worker if he's having a bad day on the job. You're already under a tremendous amount of pressure to perform. You don't need a co-worker to bring attention to your misery by taunting you in-front of your boss/peers/thousands of fans/media/etc.. Fighting is there to police your co-workers behavior without risking injury. 1
Hank Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Why is the code there in the first place? I'll try to explain.... It's there because... You're a professional. It's a job. No matter what team you're on, you're all there working for the same company, The NHL. Opponents are co-workers. At the end of the day, it's a brotherhood, you're all trying to make living doing this. It's a privilege. You're working in-front of tens of thousands of people in person, and thousands more in the media, watching on TV, etc... who critique every little thing you do. As a professional, you don't go out of your way to embarrass your co-worker if he's having a bad day on the job. You're already under a tremendous amount of pressure to perform. You don't need a co-worker to bring attention to your misery by taunting you in-front of your boss/peers/thousands of fans/media/etc.. Fighting is there to police your co-workers behavior without risking injury. You said it much better than I could, well done.
TheAud Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Why is the code there in the first place? I'll try to explain.... It's there because... You're a professional. It's a job. No matter what team you're on, you're all there working for the same company, The NHL. Opponents are co-workers. At the end of the day, it's a brotherhood, you're all trying to make living doing this. It's a privilege. You're working in-front of tens of thousands of people in person, and thousands more in the media, watching on TV, etc... who critique every little thing you do. As a professional, you don't go out of your way to embarrass your co-worker if he's having a bad day on the job. You're already under a tremendous amount of pressure to perform. You don't need a co-worker to bring attention to your misery by taunting you in-front of your boss/peers/thousands of fans/media/etc.. Fighting is there to police your co-workers behavior without risking injury. 2. If opponents are co-workers, why do they keep taking out each other's knees and driving them into the boards causing concussions? Why haven't they policed this? Where's the damn code? 4. Brad Marchand makes $5M per year. Five Million. Screw his bad days at the office. 5. Said without a trace of irony? Edited October 4, 2018 by Sakman
apuszczalowski Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, dudacek said: What is the good reason? Cavemen need to prove they have genitals by resorting to violence cause someone hurt their feelings......
apuszczalowski Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Hank said: Again, if you don't act like a douchebag, you don't get punched in the face. Good on Marchand. Yeah, cause Marchand has never done anything like that before in his career....... Your upstanding hero your defending just was trying to clean some food off the players faces when he was licking them in the playoffs last year.
Hank Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: Yeah, cause Marchand has never done anything like that before in his career....... Your upstanding hero your defending just was trying to clean some food off the players faces when he was licking them in the playoffs last year. And how is that relevant to the incident we're discussing?
WildCard Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Posted October 4, 2018 https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/10/edmonton-hockey-fans-counting-down-the-days-until-oilers-are-mathematically-eliminated-from-playoffs/
apuszczalowski Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, pi2000 said: I doubt any Caps fans look at Eller as a hero in this situation... I'm sure most (if not all) of his teammates agree that he crossed the line... some probably had a talk with him after the game... and most probably agree that what Marchand did was an acceptable response. Let's play hypothetical here... let's say there's no fighting allowed and Marchand doesn't go after Eller. Next game, to exact some level of retribution, some Boston player delivers a blindside hit on Eller into the boards and sends him to the hospital. Eller is inured and can't work for weeks or months. Is that better? Because like it or not, somebody on that Bruin bench is going to make sure there's some amount of revenge taken.... in this case it was Marchand and it was a harmless fight. Eller doesn't miss any games, he can work... just a few bruises. Much better outcome IMO. From the interviews after the game, sounds more like no one informed the Caps about the Code cause their reaction was questioning how much he should be suspended for it considering they are waiting for a teammate to get back from his 20 game suspension. Maybe his hit was also because the Blues player violated the Code?
apuszczalowski Posted October 4, 2018 Report Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hank said: And how is that relevant to the incident we're discussing? Because your code enforcing hero has done even worse to others without dealing with the same retaliation.
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