Around the NHL 2018-2019

[pi2000]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I actually think it is a good convo to have. What is an acceptable response and when should it occur. Cheers! 

Yeah, I played competitively through the early 90's.... hockey was much different back then and we were coached much differently.

I have level 4 USA coaching certification and have coached multiple youth teams at different levels for the past 10 years.... it's nothing like I remembered.... and that's probably for the better, it's just hard to see it that way sometimes.     

Edited October 4, 2018 by pi2000

[shrader]

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

To me, your take is laughable and childish. It absolves the other party of any wrongdoing because "Ellers was being douchie".  That isn't accountability, that is some punk as thug tactics. 

showing them up is exactly why Marchand reacted. He couldn't handle getting his $#!t caved in so he responded like a child. "They did something I didn't like and I couldn't handle my emotions so I attacked!" 

I haven't watched these clips at all, so I'm not going to weigh in on the specifics here.  All too often though, people think of responsibility always as a simple yes/no, one party is completely responsible and the other is not.  That's just not how things work.  It lies on a continuous scale.  Yes, there can be cases where it does all fall on one person, but the vast majority of the time there's some sort of split.  Does taunting someone make a punch to the face required?  Of course not, but you should probably be aware of the possibility.

Now this is where PC principal chimes in with the victim blaming comment, because we like to take very generic statements and re-frame them as something far more specific than they ever were.  People do need to be aware of the fact that their actions can lead to unfortunate results.  All I know is that if you asked both parties today about this fight, I'm guessing Eller's not all that angry about it.

[...]

This thread, lately, makes me feel...

 

[Sabel79]

Was Eller douchey?  Yes.  At 7-0 is Marchand proving anything?  Nah.  

If I'm a Bruins fan (ugh, threw up in my mouth a bit there) I'm pretty embarrassed at that display.  Wipe the floor with them all night, no response on the ice.  Showboat a bit, well, now they need to show some "toughness" or whatever.  

[shrader]

1 minute ago, Sabel79 said:

Was Eller douchey?  Yes.  At 7-0 is Marchand proving anything?  Nah.  

If I'm a Bruins fan (ugh, threw up in my mouth a bit there) I'm pretty embarrassed at that display.  Wipe the floor with them all night, no response on the ice.  Showboat a bit, well, now they need to show some "toughness" or whatever.  

If you were a Bruins fan, you'd have no idea what happened because you only pay attention to a team when they win.

[darksabre]

55 minutes ago, josie said:

Aw sh!t I had a whole thoughtful reply typed out, went to hit Submit Reply just as an alert for a reply popped up- clicked that instead, and lost it. So i'll try to grab the garbled remnants of my brain here:

In short- it's a visual business. It doesn't hurt to have a catch to keep you in people's minds. Women aren't as common in sports. Women with a great talent, less common. Good looking young women with a great talent are rare, and noteworthy in a market populated by a majority of straight guys. People in general go bonkers over young people with great art. When I was growing up/starting my career, a HUGE selling point I kept getting was "you're SO young omg".  

She's going viral on a bunch of different aggregate sites- and I hope she sticks with it. I am friends with a few other lady hockey artists- we found each other on IG and Twitter when our various pieces took off a bit. It's fun to watch them grow and go through college and such (I'm the old fart of the group haha). Kinda interesting- female artists seem to do the portraits while the men tend to go for design/graphics. Just something I've noticed over time. 

But yeah- being young and attractive won't hurt. Well.. it'll hurt her DMs probably. Her art alone could carry her without those two extra boosts- and she's only going to improve if she keeps at it! But yeah, a marketing person in need of a freelancer would remember a cute young blonde with amazing art over a mid 30s mom with amazing art. Ugly truth bout everything, honestly. 

 

But more importantly than me feeling my age, genetics, gender and rustiness- I want to point out that PK is really awesome about promoting art- and I really dig that. 

The problem isn't looks, it's that you don't have time to do traditional work instead of digital.

People love traditional paint on canvas stuff like that girl's colored pencil work.

I wish we were in a position where you had the time to spend on traditional.

There are a ton of mediocre traditional sports artists in the area that you would have no trouble supplanting. 

[That Aud Smell]

I almost invariably come down on the side of "moving the game forward," etc. (e.g., really didn't like Wilson's hit on the Blues player).

But I don't really have a problem with what Marchand did. Occasional fisticuffs still have a place in the game -- and they are certainly part of its lore and legacy. The staged fights between heavyweights became a perversion of that, of course, and good riddance to them.

But a top-6 player taking on an opposing player who gratuitously disrespected your entire team, even though the opposing player stands a full head taller than the instigator? I sorta mostly like it.

Edited October 4, 2018 by That Aud Smell

[Eleven]

Really sorry I brought this one up...

[ubkev]

11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Really sorry I brought this one up...

I feel like you should be punched in the face....

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, ubkev said:

I feel like you should be punched in the face....

Come fite me bro

[LTS]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

This sounds like something my 12 year old son would say tbh. ?

In your opinion, what would've been an appropriate response from Boston?    No response at all?  Just let WSH show them up, goal after goal after goal... and just take the taunting?   

It's one thing to celly when the game is tight, but when it's completely out of reach and you're blowing out your opponent, there's no need for it except to taunt your opponent.

Lars Eller's taunt, at any time, is classless.  Marchand's response is classless.  Once we've established that both actions are classless there's no need in discussing them.  It's like arguing which pile of dog crap smells better.  We might as well be arguing over Republican and Democrat morality.

What is the response?  Don't be bitter, be better.  It really boils down to that.  Your team is losing 7-0 and you should be angry with your teammates and yourself for letting that happen. If you had gone out and kicked Washington's butts you wouldn't have that situation.  Don't be bitter, be better.

31 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I almost invariably come down on the side of "moving the game forward," etc. (e.g., really didn't like Wilson's hit on the Blues player).

But I don't really have a problem with what Marchand did. Occasional fisticuffs still have a place in the game -- and they are certainly part of its lore and legacy. The staged fights between heavyweights became a perversion of that, of course, and good riddance to them.

But a top-6 player taking on an opposing player who gratuitously disrespected your entire team, even though the opposing player stands a full head taller than the instigator? I sorta mostly like it.

The pugilist way would be more appropriate as a response to a heinous physical act by the other team. 

The last line is the one I really have a problem with.  There's a world of difference in being disrespectful and being disrespected. In order to be disrespected you have to allow yourself to be hurt by the actions of someone else. Certainly there are a certain level of action that warrants feeling disrespected, but if your ego is so fragile that having an idiot wave at you warrants punching him in the face, then you need to check yourself. I would have laughed it off and been more motivated to go out and put some pucks in the net.

 

7 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Really sorry I brought this one up...

It's good that it's brought up.  Good conversation happening (aside from some of the name calling).

[That Aud Smell]

11 minutes ago, LTS said:

There's a world of difference in being disrespectful and being disrespected. In order to be disrespected you have to allow yourself to be hurt by the actions of someone else. Certainly there are a certain level of action that warrants feeling disrespected, but if your ego is so fragile that having an idiot wave at you warrants punching him in the face, then you need to check yourself. I would have laughed it off and been more motivated to go out and put some pucks in the net.

I understand the point you're making in theory. However, my sense is that, for NHL players sitting on the bench, that bye-bye wave was straight-up disrespect. A blood boiling "OH FU*K THAT GUY" moment. And I'm betting dollars to donuts that the other Bruins frickin' LOVE Marchand for stepping up like that. 

21 minutes ago, ubkev said:

I feel like you should be punched in the face....

[inkman]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

snowflake

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, inkman said:

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Obviously that one touched a raw nerve ?

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Obviously that one touched a raw nerve ?

No need to bring incendiary terms into the discussion. Thank you for your service.

[Hank]

Just now, inkman said:

No need to bring incendiary terms into the discussion. Thank you for your service.

He and I disagreed on wether Marchmants actions were justified. We each explained our position. I tried a couple times to agree to disagree but he wouldn't let it go. He called me childish, I retaliated with snowflake, and that makes me the bad guy? Eat sh!t. 

[pi2000]

46 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I understand the point you're making in theory. However, my sense is that, for NHL players sitting on the bench, that bye-bye wave was straight-up disrespect. A blood boiling "OH FU*K THAT GUY" moment. And I'm betting dollars to donuts that the other Bruins frickin' LOVE Marchand for stepping up like that. 

Eller broke the code... and he paid the price.

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Eller broke the code... and he paid the price.

As he should have!

[LTS]

49 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I understand the point you're making in theory. However, my sense is that, for NHL players sitting on the bench, that bye-bye wave was straight-up disrespect. A blood boiling "OH FU*K THAT GUY" moment. And I'm betting dollars to donuts that the other Bruins frickin' LOVE Marchand for stepping up like that. 

 

I am sure they did.  It was straight up disrespectful, I agree.  I would never feel "disrespected" by it however.  I'm just not that shallow. I would be straight up embarrassed that I was getting my butt handed to me 7-0. It would motivate me to go play harder and not resort to that infantile crap.

The only point that Marchand proved was that he and his team are thin skinned and if you rattle them, they'll break.

Just now, pi2000 said:

Eller broke the code... and he paid the price.

Yeah, the code. You sure you didn't play professionally in the 30's? Again, thin skinned; easy to take advantage of and will take stupid penalties.  You are Marty McFly hating to be called chicken.

I would have a field day with that.

[That Aud Smell]

3 minutes ago, LTS said:

I am sure they did.  It was straight up disrespectful, I agree.  I would never feel "disrespected" by it however.  I'm just not that shallow. I would be straight up embarrassed that I was getting my butt handed to me 7-0. It would motivate me to go play harder and not resort to that infantile crap.

The only point that Marchand proved was that he and his team are thin skinned and if you rattle them, they'll break.

Ehhhh, I'm not so sure. I think you're projecting your values and principles onto the world of pro hockey players. I don't think these guys navel gaze like that. 

Marchand has a track record. It does not suggest that he's thin-skinned or easily rattled. What I think happened here is that Marchand demonstrated that he will step up and kick your ass if you do something that his team feels was needlessly disrespectful to him and his teammates.

[pi2000]

2 minutes ago, LTS said:

I am sure they did.  It was straight up disrespectful, I agree.  I would never feel "disrespected" by it however.  I'm just not that shallow. I would be straight up embarrassed that I was getting my butt handed to me 7-0. It would motivate me to go play harder and not resort to that infantile crap.

The only point that Marchand proved was that he and his team are thin skinned and if you rattle them, they'll break.

Yeah, the code. You sure you didn't play professionally in the 30's? Again, thin skinned; easy to take advantage of and will take stupid penalties.  You are Marty McFly hating to be called chicken.

I would have a field day with that.

It's not an issue of motivation.    You can be motivated and playing hard and still get your butt kicked.... it happens.  

It has nothing to do with being thinned skinned.    The game is tight, you make a good play, score whatever, then celly, point at the bench... do whatever IDGAF.    You're up by  6 goals late in the game and you taunt the bench.... I'm sorry, that's a code violation.    Marchand didn't attack him because he was butthurt.... he did it for no other reason than because he broke the code.     Unless you've played at a high level, I don't expect you to understand the code.    But it's there.   And for good reason.    

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

It's not an issue of motivation.    You can be motivated and playing hard and still get your butt kicked.... it happens.  

It has nothing to do with being thinned skinned.    The game is tight, you make a good play, score whatever, then celly, point at the bench... do whatever IDGAF.    You're up by  6 goals late in the game and you taunt the bench.... I'm sorry, that's a code violation.    Marchand didn't attack him because he was butthurt.... he did it for no other reason than because he broke the code.     Unless you've played at a high level, I don't expect you to understand the code.    But it's there.   And for good reason.    

What is the good reason?

[pi2000]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What is the good reason?

It's a secret, I can't tell you.   

[Hank]

8 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

It's not an issue of motivation.    You can be motivated and playing hard and still get your butt kicked.... it happens.  

It has nothing to do with being thinned skinned.    The game is tight, you make a good play, score whatever, then celly, point at the bench... do whatever IDGAF.    You're up by  6 goals late in the game and you taunt the bench.... I'm sorry, that's a code violation.    Marchand didn't attack him because he was butthurt.... he did it for no other reason than because he broke the code.     Unless you've played at a high level, I don't expect you to understand the code.    But it's there.   And for good reason.    

Again, if you don't act like a douchebag, you don't get punched in the face. Good on Marchand. 

[LGR4GM]

47 minutes ago, Hank said:

He and I disagreed on wether Marchmants actions were justified. We each explained our position. I tried a couple times to agree to disagree but he wouldn't let it go. He called me childish, I retaliated with snowflake, and that makes me the bad guy? Eat sh!t. 

I called your take childish. I stand by that. Being taunted doesn't give you the right to punched someone. It accomplished nothing. If I were Ellers, I'd do it every game.

Let's say it's the real world. Your team is getting destroyed and opposing gives you a taunt like waves and says bye bye losers. What's an appropriate reaction?

Edited October 4, 2018 by LGR4GM