pi2000 Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, WildCard said: I'd still prefer to keep it within conference. The cross-conference playoffs is a cool idea but I think the novelty of it would wear off. I want to hate the teams in my conference and play those teams that I play the most in the playoffs; I play Vancouver 2x a year, but Washington 4x IMO the concept of "rivalries" went away when they took fighting (and violent checking) out of the game. There isn't any true hate between teams these days... so the league felt the need to manufacture rivalries with the goofy playoff format... and it's not working IMO, so just get rid of it.
LGR4GM Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 John BorukVerified account @johnborukNBCS 6m6 minutes ago MorCONFIRMED: Dave Hakstol has been fired as head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers. Joel Quennville is the likely replacement.
That Aud Smell Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: NHL has had a ton of formats. They started tinkering right off the git go! http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=25433 16 minutes ago, pi2000 said: I liked when they would rank them 1-16.... with 1 vs 16 in the first round. IIRC, BUF played VAN in the first round one season? That would truly reward the top teams, and you'd also guarantee to the two best teams face off in the SC Finals. I loved that format as well. A lot of that is probably a function of my age at the time -- pretty young. I have a vague memory of Buffalo having a wacky match-up when the league went with that 1-16 format. Can't recall who, though. 3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: John BorukVerified account @johnborukNBCS 6m6 minutes ago MorCONFIRMED: Dave Hakstol has been fired as head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers. Joel Quennville is the likely replacement. Ah, hell. I'd really rather Philly not be good.
Brawndo Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 Scott Gordon will serve as the Flyers Interim Coach
LGR4GM Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 Wonder how long that will last. 7 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Scott Gordon will serve as the Flyers Interim Coach
Eleven Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, shrader said: You can only do 1-16 if you create a completely balanced schedule leaguewide. That is never going to happen due to the travel constraints. Nah, they did it before without a balanced schedule. And then they seeded conferences 1-8 without the schedule being balanced within each conference. My favorite is still 1-4 in the division, then the division winners play, then the conference winners, like in the 80s and 90s. But that presents problems, too, when some divisions are weaker than others (like now). 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: Wonder how long that will last. Probably until April, if Quenneville is smart. 1
Brawndo Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 I think Eleven is on to something, I believe Q takes the reminder of the year off and then looks at the available positions and makes a decision in May
shrader Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Eleven said: Nah, they did it before without a balanced schedule. And then they seeded conferences 1-8 without the schedule being balanced within each conference. My favorite is still 1-4 in the division, then the division winners play, then the conference winners, like in the 80s and 90s. But that presents problems, too, when some divisions are weaker than others (like now). They may have done it before, but look how long that lasted. There was far too much imbalance to make 1-16 work and that system was quickly abandoned. And yes, of course there wasn't full balance with the 1-8 format, but it's much closer to balanced within the conferences. That's the whole purpose of conferences/division. They determine the playoffs within clusters that are as similar as possible. More clusters means more ability to balance the schedule within them. So yeah, two groups of 1-8 obviously allowed for more balance than one group of 1-16. I'm with you on being happy with the division system as well. What you just called for is essentially what they have now, but with the wild card added in. The only thing I wish they'd change would be the record based cross over they allow now. If the two wild cards are from different divisions, they should say in division no matter what their records are. Only allow cross over if both wild cards come from the same division. Sadly the wild card is necessary because it's fairly likely that the 5th team in one division will be better than the 4th in the other. I like keeping everything within the division for the first two rounds because it will spark a lot of rivalries over the long term as you get similar playoff matchups frequency. That's right back to the 80s-90s thing you mentioned. We can throw out alignment options constantly around here but they'll all come back to the same problem. There is no perfect situation. Any system that people will suggest, there will be that crazy set of outcomes that breaks it down.
That Aud Smell Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 52 minutes ago, Brawndo said: I think Eleven is on to something, I believe Q takes the reminder of the year off and then looks at the available positions and makes a decision in May Wait - is that not a done deal?
Eleven Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: Wait - is that not a done deal? Quenneville said it wasn't over the weekend. If he's smart, he sits, continues to get paid, waits for Philly to get a top 3 pick or so, and takes the job, or another one, over the summer.
Stoner Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said: I loved that format as well. A lot of that is probably a function of my age at the time -- pretty young. I have a vague memory of Buffalo having a wacky match-up when the league went with that 1-16 format. Can't recall who, though. I suspect you're thinking of Sabres-Blues in '76. Best of three. Sabres had to start on the road, lost, then won two OT games at the Aud to survive. I'm guilty of thinking that was the 1-16 format, but that format didn't begin until 1980. 1
That Aud Smell Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: I suspect you're thinking of Sabres-Blues in '76. Best of three. Sabres had to start on the road, lost, then won two OT games at the Aud to survive. I'm guilty of thinking that was the 1-16 format, but that format didn't begin until 1980. I think I have the Canucks in mind from the early 80s. I remember my dad being tickled that we were playing the team we came in with, and him also being confused over how they could handle so much travel in a 3-game series. I also think the team that the Sabres played next was also a western-ish team. Okay, I looked: It was the North Stars.
Taro T Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 5 hours ago, WildCard said: With us in 2nd in the Atlantic right now, how do the playoffs work? Would we play 3rd in our division (Toronto), and then 1st (Tampa) assuming both wildcard teams lose? That's the way it works and sadly it would be the 2nd time that format bit the Sabres should things remain mainly static the next 48 or so games. In '90, they had the 3rd best regular seasonin the league & played the team with the 4th best record; while the other divisional series had 1 overall vs 7. I LIKE that the 1st round is in division, but still think the format should be different for 2nd through 4th rounds. Round 1 - all games in division with 1 hosting 4 and 2 hosting 3. Next round the top remaining seed from each division plays the lower remaining seed within conference. For the semifinals, you go across conference with the higher ranked team hosting the other conference's lower ranked team. The 2 survivors meet for the finals. The beauty of this system is multifold: 1. It maintains the importance of doing well in division during the regular season as you get theoretically an easier road to the next round by having a better record while still maintaining divisional rivalries for the 1st round. 2. It doesn't significantly raise travel miles for teams compared to the 1-16, 2-15, etc system & still has more early round games against teams that others are familiar with while once again rewarding the better team to survive its division getting an easier game. 3. Most importantly, should the 2 best teams in the league be from the same division they CAN (& WILL) meet in the Finals rather than the 2nd round. 4. Should a division be unusually weak (cough, cough, Smythe) they don't get rewarded by having 1 team automatically in the Semi-finals. So, when Tampa ends up with the top recordin the league, Buffalo 2nd & Nashville 3rd; Tampa gets Moe-ray-all 1st round (after they sneak past Bah-stan) & Buffalo hosts the Loafs. Next round they both beat Patrick division teams. Then Buffalo hosts Nashville & the Bolts get the Campbell conference runner up. And then Buffalo & Tampa meet in the Andreychuk Final. Luck of the draw forces them to play TO 1st round, but after that the Adams teams get a reward and avoid each other until the Finals. Why should Columbus get rewarded by playing Washington or Pittsburgh 2nd round when TB should face that weakest remaining team? And should Nashville & TB be the 2 best teams, they'll likely meet in the Finals anyway. And should a good team have a rough regular season, they can still advance, thry just now have a rougher road forward, as they should. And no, there is no way the NHL will ever bring this format back. Though they should. 1
North Buffalo Posted December 17, 2018 Report Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, pi2000 said: Quennville to SEA. E5 I could see that especially if given a lot of control.
Eleven Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Taro T said: I LIKE that the 1st round is in division, but still think the format should be different for 2nd through 4th rounds. Round 1 - all games in division with 1 hosting 4 and 2 hosting 3. Next round the top remaining seed from each division plays the lower remaining seed within conference. For the semifinals, you go across conference with the higher ranked team hosting the other conference's lower ranked team. The 2 survivors meet for the finals. You had me until cross-conference. What's the point? Just ditch the cofveve system altogether and let winners of the divisionals play it out if that's what you want. Edited December 18, 2018 by Eleven 1
Taro T Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Eleven said: You had me until cross-conference. What's the point? Just ditch the cofveve system altogether and let winners of the divisionals play it out if that's what you want. The point is, the 2 best teams shouldn't be prevented from meeting for the championship simply because they're victims of geography. This proposed system maintains divisional rivalries but still allows the best 2 teams to meet in the finals far more often than currently happens. It is far more elegant than the current system & also traces it's roots to earlier better systems within the league itself.
Doohicksie Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Brawndo said: Scott Gordon will serve as the Flyers Interim Coach Worded like that, it sounds like a prison sentence. He couldn't get community service or probation, eh? 2
Eleven Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 55 minutes ago, Taro T said: The point is, the 2 best teams shouldn't be prevented from meeting for the championship simply because they're victims of geography. This proposed system maintains divisional rivalries but still allows the best 2 teams to meet in the finals far more often than currently happens. It is far more elegant than the current system & also traces it's roots to earlier better systems within the league itself. It does no such thing--and I think if you asked fans of WC teams, you'd get a heck of a reaction against.
Taro T Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, Eleven said: It does no such thing--and I think if you asked fans of WC teams, you'd get a heck of a reaction against. It most certainly does trace back to the early 70's. It also will, when the 2 best teams are from the same conference, give the possibilty of having the 2 best teams in the league playing for the Stanley Cup. That is impossible with the current format. And why are we worried about what the Wild Card teams want? They should put together better teams and then they'll have the advantage. And should you have been referring to Western Conference teams, some cities in different divisions are closer than teams within their own division; this format could put Calgary-Winnipeg & Arizona-Dallas in the 2nd round just as easily as Winnipeg-Nashville and Calgary-Anaheim in the 2nd round to allieviate travel concerns while still allowing for the possibility of Winnipeg Nashville as a Final. Should those 2 be the best 2, why not allow them to battle it out whenit matters most? Why force them to play in the 2nd round? We know they will never go to it. That should be a selling point in its favor as well. ;)
Ducky Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 NSH (1st overall) met the Jets (2nd overall) in the 2nd round last year...
Taro T Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Ducky said: NSH (1st overall) met the Jets (2nd overall) in the 2nd round last year... Which isn't right. The system I've proposed would've allowed them to potentially meet in the Finals rather than bash each other in the 2nd round making them easy pickings for Vegas.
shrader Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 32 minutes ago, Taro T said: Which isn't right. The system I've proposed would've allowed them to potentially meet in the Finals rather than bash each other in the 2nd round making them easy pickings for Vegas. But is Tampa's 113 points really any worse than the Jets' 114, or even Nashville's 117? It goes right back to the imbalanced schedules thing. Allowing for crossover across conferences like that opens up a huge can of worms. Do you really want to do that to account for what is going to be a fairly rare scenario.
Eleven Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 34 minutes ago, Taro T said: Which isn't right. The system I've proposed would've allowed them to potentially meet in the Finals rather than bash each other in the 2nd round making them easy pickings for Vegas. So, they would have been "easy pickings" for Vegas two rounds later? Didn't we get an entertaining Final as it was? No league that has conferences does this cross-conference stuff. Beat your opponents, win the championship, the order of things shouldn't matter.
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted December 18, 2018 Report Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Eleven said: So, they would have been "easy pickings" for Vegas two rounds later? Didn't we get an entertaining Final as it was? No league that has conferences does this cross-conference stuff. Beat your opponents, win the championship, the order of things shouldn't matter. Get with the times!!! It's not politically correct to make the lesser teams actually have to work hard to get a trophy, LOL. Years ago my bowling league gave a trophy to the last place team....it was the back-end of mule. Edited December 18, 2018 by MakeSabresGrr8Again
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