Around the NHL 2018-2019

[WildCard]

Just now, Tondas said:

If Florida can have 2 teams, certainly Texas can.  Although the Panthers are struggling to get fans in the arena.

Speaking of two teams, the fact that Toronto and Montreal don't have 2 teams each makes me so mad

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, Tondas said:

If Florida can have 2 teams, certainly Texas can.  Although the Panthers are struggling to get fans in the arena.

I mean ...

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Speaking of two teams, the fact that Toronto and Montreal don't have 2 teams each makes me so mad

The Leaves will not allow that kind of competion right in their own backyard.  There has been talk of a team in Mississauga for sometime, or Oshawa.

Montreal is to storied a franchise to allow another in Montreal.

[WildCard]

3 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

The Leaves will not allow that kind of competion right in their own backyard.  There has been talk of a team in Mississauga for sometime, or Oshawa.

Montreal is to storied a franchise to allow another in Montreal.

Yeah I know the reasons why, I just think they're absurd. Carolina and Florida should be relocated to Montreal and Toronto.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Yeah I know the reasons why, I just think they're absurd. Carolina and Florida should be relocated to Montreal and Toronto.

I don't think the fan / corporate base is there for a second in Montreal.  Toronto for sure.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 hours ago, WildCard said:

Eichel is tied 9th at 38 points in 31 games. Mikko Rantenan has 52 points in 31 games. This is also his contract year; he's an RFA at the end of this year. He put up 84 points last year, and is on pace for 120+ this year

What do the Avs end up having to pay him? 11M+?

I think it will come in at about 11.5, but he may give the team a discount in order to sign some others.  The MacKinnon deal is a steal for the Avs, that's for sure.

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Probably 12+ at this point. 

He won't get McDavid $.

[spndnchz]

52 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I mean ...

 

Bairly pay for the guy who unlocks the door, let alone the guy who flips the lights on. 

[shrader]

36 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Yeah I know the reasons why, I just think they're absurd. Carolina and Florida should be relocated to Montreal and Toronto.

Look at all of the cases where there are two teams in one city.  Outside of LA, they're all a product of league mergers.  Both of the LA scenarios are very unique cases.  Putting a new team in an already established market is just not something they do.  They want to create new markets and revenue streams.

[Brawndo]

17 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Just chuckled?  I belly laughed.  You really see the personalities come out in this video.

I was in a meeting sitting in the back watching this on my phone, a belly laugh would have gotten me into trouble. 

 

Also from Friedman old pal, GMTM might join GM Chuck Fletcher in Philadelphia in a scouting capacity 

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Look at all of the cases where there are two teams in one city.  Outside of LA, they're all a product of league mergers.  Both of the LA scenarios are very unique cases.  Putting a new team in an already established market is just not something they do.  They want to create new markets and revenue streams.

New markets I get. But I highly doubt Carolina and Florida are pulling in more revenue than a 2nd Toronto team would. That 2nd team would sell out every game, not to mention all of the TV time they would get in Canada, and merchandise you would get. It's the 3rd largest city in NA, outside of the Leafs not wanting it like NS said, it makes no sense not to put another team there

Just now, Brawndo said:

I was in a meeting sitting in the back watching this on my phone, a belly laugh would have gotten me into trouble. 

 

Also from Friedman old pal, GMTM might join GM Chuck Fletcher in Philadelphia in a scouting capacity 

He's a good scout. He's just a bad GM

[shrader]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

New markets I get. But I highly doubt Carolina and Florida are pulling in more revenue than a 2nd Toronto team would. That 2nd team would sell out every game, not to mention all of the TV time they would get in Canada, and merchandise you would get. It's the 3rd largest city in NA, outside of the Leafs not wanting it like NS said, it makes no sense not to put another team there

But those gains do come at the cost to the already existing team.  So right off the bat there's one team who would never sign off on the deal.  Now if you're another large market watching that, you're probably not signing off either, in case the same thing comes knocking on your door somewhere down the road.  I'd imagine that Buffalo wouldn't like it either, since it would eat away at some of their support in southern Ontario.

I also don't think you'd get that big boost in merchandise sales.  They would sell tickets, but very few are going to jump ship away from the team they've followed their whole life.  That may happen over time with success (and that's a big if), but it would take a very long time.  The league would much rather get that increase in fans from day 1 and hope that their product can draw in more.  I don't fault them for believing in their product.

The biggest part of it though, is that their main source of money comes from the commercial dollars, sponsors.  If you put a team in an already existing market, you're just dividing that area's pool between two clubs.  Put a team in a new city, you now have an entirely new source of dollars.  This situation in the NFL should be interesting to watch.  I wouldn't be surprised if the long term plan there is to see who is successful and then eventually move the red-headed step child to a new market.

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

GMTM might join GM Chuck Fletcher in Philadelphia in a scouting capacity 

...because he was so good at identifying talent.  ?

[SwampD]

Watching Philly lose in OT, after being up 5-3 with about a minute left in the third was fun.

But the Calgary TV crew, wtf? They were making fun of one guy because he was talking about controlled entries vs dump+chase, and they acted like nobody would know what he was talking about. Is their fan base really that hockey illiterate?

Edited December 13, 2018 by SwampD

[Thorner]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Probably 12+ at this point. 

Ehh. They'll probably take a look at who he's playing most of his minutes with. He's a terrific hockey player but he's not getting McDavid money, don't care about cap inflation.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Thorny

[Thorner]

10 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I think it will come in at about 11.5, but he may give the team a discount in order to sign some others.  The MacKinnon deal is a steal for the Avs, that's for sure.

He won't get McDavid $.

I'll honestly be surprised if he goes above 10. Avs, at least, won't pay him more than that, in my estimation. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Thorny

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'll honestly be surprised if he goes above 10. Avs, at least, won't pay him more than that, in my estimation. 

he is leading the league in scoring and has had a fantastic season just prior.

He will get over 11, but your point about the Avs is a good one.  On the other hand they are building a very good team and I doubt they want to breakup their dynamic duo.  On the other other hand MacKinnon signed well below market, although he took a bit longer to blossom into the star that he is and was into his second contract when that happened.

[North Buffalo]

15 hours ago, shrader said:

Look at all of the cases where there are two teams in one city.  Outside of LA, they're all a product of league mergers.  Both of the LA scenarios are very unique cases.  Putting a new team in an already established market is just not something they do.  They want to create new markets and revenue streams.

NYC JUST SAYING.... baseball and hockey, the other two were league mergers.  3 NHL Hockey teams in NYC area.

[shrader]

2 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

NYC JUST SAYING.... baseball and hockey, the other two were league mergers.  3 NHL Hockey teams in NYC area.

I really don't know what to make of that market since it's so much bigger than anything else.  I know how close all of it is, but I've never really thought of that as 3 teams in the same area, especially since the Devils will probably pull from the rest of their state (stealing from the Philly fan pool a bit).  I don't know the Toronto surrounding area all that much.  Do they have anything even remotely similar in terms of a surrounding area to pull from?  It again gets complicated by Buffalo, especially in this day in age where they are going to be far more protective of their market than they would in the 60s-70s (not to say that they weren't protective then).

Thanks for this history lesson.  For some reason I thought the Islanders were from the WHA, but looking back, they were just there to keep the WHA out.  And the Mets?  Total brain fart there.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

36 minutes ago, shrader said:

I really don't know what to make of that market since it's so much bigger than anything else.  I know how close all of it is, but I've never really thought of that as 3 teams in the same area, especially since the Devils will probably pull from the rest of their state (stealing from the Philly fan pool a bit).  I don't know the Toronto surrounding area all that much.  Do they have anything even remotely similar in terms of a surrounding area to pull from?  It again gets complicated by Buffalo, especially in this day in age where they are going to be far more protective of their market than they would in the 60s-70s (not to say that they weren't protective then).

Thanks for this history lesson.  For some reason I thought the Islanders were from the WHA, but looking back, they were just there to keep the WHA out.  And the Mets?  Total brain fart there.

Southern Ontario, which would include a large area that would be a second team draw area is about 13 million ... probably at least 10 million within an hour of Toronto (not in rush hour).  The Great Satan Area has about 6.5 million.

So, population is not the problem.  Corporate sponsorship is not the problem.  The Leaves wanting to maintain their monopoly is the problem.

[shrader]

7 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Southern Ontario, which would include a large area that would be a second team draw area is about 13 million ... probably at least 10 million within an hour of Toronto (not in rush hour).  The Great Satan Area has about 6.5 million.

So, population is not the problem.  Corporate sponsorship is not the problem.  The Leaves wanting to maintain their monopoly is the problem.

Let's not leave Buffalo out of the equation as well.  We've got enough posters here from southern Ontario to speak for that.

And before we throw the term monopoly around, we do need to remember the various other levels of hockey that exist around the area, especially the AHL and junior teams.  There's far more hockey available than most tend to think about when this topic comes up.  I had it to some extent in the Boston area, with all of the college programs in the area.  It's nice for the fans to have those multiple price points available.  It's not an argument for or against adding a team, but I wanted to mention it.  It's not the NHL or bust in some of these larger markets.

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, shrader said:

Let's not leave Buffalo out of the equation as well.  We've got enough posters here from southern Ontario to speak for that.

And before we throw the term monopoly around, we do need to remember the various other levels of hockey that exist around the area, especially the AHL and junior teams.  There's far more hockey available than most tend to think about when this topic comes up.  I had it to some extent in the Boston area, with all of the college programs in the area.  It's nice for the fans to have those multiple price points available.  It's not an argument for or against adding a team, but I wanted to mention it.  It's not the NHL or bust in some of these larger markets.

Good point.  The Marlies, Steelheads, Rangers, Bulldogs, & Generals (amongst others) all say 'hi.' 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

23 minutes ago, shrader said:

Let's not leave Buffalo out of the equation as well.  We've got enough posters here from southern Ontario to speak for that.

And before we throw the term monopoly around, we do need to remember the various other levels of hockey that exist around the area, especially the AHL and junior teams.  There's far more hockey available than most tend to think about when this topic comes up.  I had it to some extent in the Boston area, with all of the college programs in the area.  It's nice for the fans to have those multiple price points available.  It's not an argument for or against adding a team, but I wanted to mention it.  It's not the NHL or bust in some of these larger markets.

 

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Good point.  The Marlies, Steelheads, Rangers, Bulldogs, & Generals (amongst others) all say 'hi.' 

Yes.  I should have been more clear ... NHL monoploly, which is were the $ is.

[shrader]

6 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

 

Yes.  I should have been more clear ... NHL monoploly, which is were the $ is.

 

I'm always curious to see what people consider to be a monopoly.  When it comes to sports, beyond just the different levels of hockey, I've also considered the other sports as competition as well.  So within the sports world, the Leafs are also competing with the Blue Jays, Raptors, and Argos (let's ignore ownership overlap for now and just consider this as an example).  So to me, saying the Leafs (or any other team) has an NHL monopoly feels like saying Snickers has a monopoly on chocolate covered peanut candy bars.  That may well be the fact, but it's a small piece of the much larger candy bar market.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Not to be a pain about this and I understand where you are coming from, but the Leafs are not in competition with the Blue Jays, Raptors and especially the Argos.

[dudacek]

6 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

he is leading the league in scoring and has had a fantastic season just prior.

He will get over 11, but your point about the Avs is a good one.  On the other hand they are building a very good team and I doubt they want to breakup their dynamic duo.  On the other other hand MacKinnon signed well below market, although he took a bit longer to blossom into the star that he is and was into his second contract when that happened.

 

How good is Rantanen? Sincere question because he haven’t seen much of him this year.

Ive always liked him as a prospect and a young player, but sort of projected a Filip Forsberg level guy, not a MacKinnon-level. He’s certainly surpassing that on the stats sheet.

Related, MacKinnon is the best value contract in the league by a mile. How does that affect Rantanen and how will Rantanen’s raise affect MacKinnon?

Edited December 13, 2018 by dudacek