Downfall of The Buffalo News

[gilbert11]

Plenty of writers do just fine. Bob McKenzie is awesome on Twitter.

Twitter doesn't change who you are. But if you're a prick, it tends to give you enough rope to hang yourself. How many examples do we really need of that?

Roseanne found out the hard way. Career reboot for some of the cast ended by a dumb tweet.

[Brawndo]

Per this, neither Bucky or Sully wanted buyouts, they both lost their columns.

 

http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/05302018/whats-happening-buffalo-news

 

PA will be interested in this

[That Aud Smell]

^

 

Setting aside the overwhelming bias of that Fredonia Journo professor (!!) and the fact that his writing makes Gleason’s style seem sophisticated, I do note with interest his theory that OneBuffalo (PSE) could be partly responsible for eliminating Sullivan and Gleason.

 

Certainly, TBN has elsewhere become an unapologetic mouth piece for the Buffalo Niagara Partnership (i.e., the real estate developers, the manufacturers, and major local money havers in general).

[Weave]

So, does that leave TBN with no sports editorial columns?  Just beat reporting only?

[LTS]

Per this, neither Bucky or Sully wanted buyouts, they both lost their columns.

 

http://www.dailypublic.com/articles/05302018/whats-happening-buffalo-news

 

PA will be interested in this

 

 

^

 

Setting aside the overwhelming bias of that Fredonia Journo professor (!!) and the fact that his writing makes Gleason’s style seem sophisticated, I do note with interest his theory that OneBuffalo (PSE) could be partly responsible for eliminating Sullivan and Gleason.

 

Certainly, TBN has elsewhere become an unapologetic mouth piece for the Buffalo Niagara Partnership (i.e., the real estate developers, the manufacturers, and major local money havers in general).

 

 

All the conspiracies aside... those two columnists have been blasted on here by the same people who routinely blast the teams that the columnists were being TOO negative about.  It's a funny thing, when things suck, no one wants to be reminded of just how bad it sucks.  Having those two blowhards writing their columns wasn't going to endear them to people. 

 

The real heart of the matter is that print journalism is dead, as it should be.  Paper cannot match the real-time information feed that is the Internet.  Different sources of news should rise... the big problem now is knowing which source of news is really a legitimate news source.

 

In my opinion, the author throwing in the PSE tie is merely to give people something to talk about.  Until I read that line I felt like I was reading an article by a person who was simultaneously happy that a place he used to work was suffering while at the same time taking shots at the person in charge for being a jackhole to the employees (aka "friends") he still has in the news room.  A sort of roundabout way for those employees to make their feelings known about their boss without actively saying it.

 

Throw in the PSE thoughts to see if you can't get someone to investigate if it really happened, or even better, simply overreact to that information and potentially take action without investigation.

[Eleven]

All the conspiracies aside... those two columnists have been blasted on here by the same people who routinely blast the teams that the columnists were being TOO negative about.  It's a funny thing, when things suck, no one wants to be reminded of just how bad it sucks.  Having those two blowhards writing their columns wasn't going to endear them to people. 

 

The real heart of the matter is that print journalism is dead, as it should be.  Paper cannot match the real-time information feed that is the Internet.  Different sources of news should rise... the big problem now is knowing which source of news is really a legitimate news source.

 

In my opinion, the author throwing in the PSE tie is merely to give people something to talk about.  Until I read that line I felt like I was reading an article by a person who was simultaneously happy that a place he used to work was suffering while at the same time taking shots at the person in charge for being a jackhole to the employees (aka "friends") he still has in the news room.  A sort of roundabout way for those employees to make their feelings known about their boss without actively saying it.

 

Throw in the PSE thoughts to see if you can't get someone to investigate if it really happened, or even better, simply overreact to that information and potentially take action without investigation.

 

I stopped reading their columns when the team was still very good.  They're just miserable people with barrels full of ink. People have been complaining about them for years and years, and TBN finally realized a fresh approach was needed.  I think that's why it hired Kimberley Martin last summer (only to have WaPo scoop her right up).

 

As for the conjecture that PSE is involved:  Does the writer realize just how favorably TBN treats PSE as a whole?  PSE has nothing to complain about.

[shrader]

I stopped reading their columns when the team was still very good.  They're just miserable people with barrels full of ink. People have been complaining about them for years and years, and TBN finally realized a fresh approach was needed.  I think that's why it hired Kimberley Martin last summer (only to have WaPo scoop her right up).

 

As for the conjecture that PSE is involved:  Does the writer realize just how favorably TBN treats PSE as a whole?  PSE has nothing to complain about.

 

For me, I'm not interested in hearing/reading what someone thinks about something unless it's in an actual conversation.  That's why opinion pieces have essentially no value to me.  There are very few avenues where you can respond to them.  And even then, they can be very selective in which responses are seen.

[That Aud Smell]

As for the conjecture that PSE is involved:  Does the writer realize just how favorably TBN treats PSE as a whole?  PSE has nothing to complain about.

 

Query how and why that came to be. And what implications that might have for a sphere of influence.

 

PSE may have little or nothing to complain about when it comes to TBN, but that certainly doesn't foreclose them having influence. Quite the contrary, I'd think.

[Doohicksie]

Food for thought:  The Hidden Costs of Losing Your City's Newspaper

Edited May 31, 2018 by Doohickie

[Radar]

 

The real heart of the matter is that print journalism is dead, as it should be.  Paper cannot match the real-time information feed that is the Internet.  Different sources of news should rise... the big problem now is knowing which source of news is really a legitimate news source.

 

This problem of knowing a legitimate news source is very worrisome to me.

[Eleven]

Query how and why that came to be. And what implications that might have for a sphere of influence.

 

PSE may have little or nothing to complain about when it comes to TBN, but that certainly doesn't foreclose them having influence. Quite the contrary, I'd think.

 

Why does TBN write good things about PSE?  Because PSE has done a lot in downtown Buffalo that are good.  It writes good things about every developer when new projects are going up.

For me, I'm not interested in hearing/reading what someone thinks about something unless it's in an actual conversation.  That's why opinion pieces have essentially no value to me.  There are very few avenues where you can respond to them.  And even then, they can be very selective in which responses are seen.

 

Me too, actually; that's probably why I don't read Rod Watson too often and didn't read Donn Esmonde at all.  Although I am giving Sean Kirst a chance. 

[Weave]

Food for thought: The Hidden Costs of Losing Your City's Newspaper

Saw that this morning.

 

There is alot of celebrating going on here, but this is not good news. We aren’t just losing Sully and Bucky. We are losing an editorial voice (it sounds like they aren’t being replaced). We definitely should not be rejoicing in that.

[That Aud Smell]

Why does TBN write good things about PSE?  Because PSE has done a lot in downtown Buffalo that are good.  It writes good things about every developer when new projects are going up.

 

It's that simple, eh?

 

Oh, and they sho nuff do. They sho nuff do.

 

[Eleven]

It's that simple, eh?

 

Oh, and they sho nuff do. They sho nuff do.

 

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar,,,

Saw that this morning.

 

There is alot of celebrating going on here, but this is not good news. We aren’t just losing Sully and Bucky. We are losing an editorial voice (it sounds like they aren’t being replaced). We definitely should not be rejoicing in that.

 

If they're not being replaced, well, at least the editorial voices we're losing are from the toy department.  But I would think TBN will replace at least one of them.  Maybe Graham will write more columns; maybe Vogl or Harrington will be transformed into a columnist and a younger reporter (Moritz please?) gets a shot at a bigger role.

[That Aud Smell]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar,,,

 

And sometimes a foundering legacy media company that kowtows to the region's wealthy in a desperate effort to shore up its bottom line is just ... is just that.

[Eleven]

And sometimes a foundering legacy media company that kowtows to the region's wealthy in a desperate effort to shore up its bottom line is just ... is just that.

 

I don't think Warren Buffett needs to kowtow to the Pegulas.  Without some evidence, I'm using Occam's Razor:  The News got sick of the complaints about two columnists that were nearly universally despised, if this board and twitter are good samples, and booted them back to reporting.  

Edited May 31, 2018 by Eleven

[That Aud Smell]

I don't think Warren Buffett needs to kowtow to the Pegulas.   

 

But those who must generate and then report financial results to Mr. Buffett very well may. 

 

Without some evidence, I'm using Occam's Razor:  The News got sick of the complaints about two columnists that were nearly universally despised, if this board and twitter are good samples, and booted them back to reporting.  

 

In this particular instance, though, I tend to agree with you more than not. I only got this started by saying it was plausible that TBN's business interests in separating Sullivan and Gleason may have extended to an interest in currying favour with PSE.

 

OTOH, if that were really what's afoot, Vogl would have stayed put and Harrington would be gone.

Edited May 31, 2018 by That Aud Smell

[nfreeman]

There is alot of celebrating going on here, but this is not good news. We aren’t just losing Sully and Bucky. We are losing an editorial voice (it sounds like they aren’t being replaced). We definitely should not be rejoicing in that.

 

If they're not being replaced, well, at least the editorial voices we're losing are from the toy department.  But I would think TBN will replace at least one of them.  Maybe Graham will write more columns; maybe Vogl or Harrington will be transformed into a columnist and a younger reporter (Moritz please?) gets a shot at a bigger role.

 

 

It won't be Vogl, because he's leaving too, but I have to believe that someone -- probably someone already there -- will write columns -- and that there's a good chance that whoever it is will do a better job than Bucky (I was always OK with Sullivan's columns).

[Eleven]

It won't be Vogl, because he's leaving too, but I have to believe that someone -- probably someone already there -- will write columns -- and that there's a good chance that whoever it is will do a better job than Bucky (I was always OK with Sullivan's columns).

 

I don't know why I brainfarted and forgot that Vogl had left, but I did.

[LTS]

Food for thought:  The Hidden Costs of Losing Your City's Newspaper

 

I don't doubt any of that information.  I also think the market is ripe for someone to invent the new watchdog.  

 

At the same time, the biggest problem is that people, as a whole, really don't want to be bothered with it.  We're largely sheep who want to live our lives and so long as government is not too egregious we're not going to complain.  Every once in awhile, one of the greedy ones screws up and gets put out as the sacrificial lamb.  I'm most definitely included in that mix of people.  I just live with the assumption that I did not get into the circle of real estate developers/lawyer/politician/business man that is going to see me gain that lifestyle.  At the same time, I'm happy enough.

 

What does it all mean?  I don't know.  There are some days when I feel like I would prefer to spend my time tearing government apart.  At the same time, it doesn't pay and I have a lifestyle I have obtained that I am not willing to give up.  So, open the gates and pull me into the pen so I can be sheared I suppose.

[Doohicksie]

We're largely sheep who want to live our lives and so long as government is not too egregious we're not going to complain.

And this works.  In fact it probably works a lot better than if we were largely wolves, competing for power. 

[SDS]

But those who must generate and then report financial results to Mr. Buffett very well may.

 

 

In this particular instance, though, I tend to agree with you more than not. I only got this started by saying it was plausible that TBN's business interests in separating Sullivan and Gleason may have extended to an interest in currying favour with PSE.

 

OTOH, if that were really what's afoot, Vogl would have stayed put and Harrington would be gone.

If you want to read a passionate debate about the subject, Head on over to the stadium wall. Since the Buffalo blitz pay wall went up there has been a ton of debate. The new sports editor Josh Barnett has been very involved in the conversation. One thing that became clear is that there are people who claim they will never subscribe to Buffalo blitz as long as those two were employed. If you were the new guy who comes in and is charged with shoring up the sports department, you probably start looking around to see who is connecting with the community and who is not. In my experience, over the 20 years my websites have been around there has been a crushing majority of people who do not value those two columnists. It has always been this way as long as I remember.

[That Aud Smell]

^

 

Interesting. Occam’s razor, as Eleven noted.

 

Especially so if the antipathy crossed over from “I’m going to click to see what this idiot says” to “I never read that guy’s column.”

 

The click numbers wouldn’t have lied.

[shrader]

If you want to read a passionate debate about the subject, Head on over to the stadium wall. Since the Buffalo blitz pay wall went up there has been a ton of debate. The new sports editor Josh Barnett has been very involved in the conversation. One thing that became clear is that there are people who claim they will never subscribe to Buffalo blitz as long as those two were employed. If you were the new guy who comes in and is charged with shoring up the sports department, you probably start looking around to see who is connecting with the community and who is not. In my experience, over the 20 years my websites have been around there has been a crushing majority of people who do not value those two columnists. It has always been this way as long as I remember.

 

I wish there was an obvious way to see how much these boards match up with the full population of readers out there.  We'll never get a true look at the casual followers of these teams (ie. vast majority of the readers).  Are you aware of anything that might track those numbers?

 

^

 

Interesting. Occam’s razor, as Eleven noted.

 

Especially so if the antipathy crossed over from “I’m going to click to see what this idiot says” to “I never read that guy’s column.”

 

The click numbers wouldn’t have lied.

 

Based on what I read on these two boards, I think there are a ton of people who click on it to hate read it.  I trust 11 when he says he never clicks, but so many others I don't.  They usually have too much detail to not have read it.  Those hate read clicks count just as much as the masochist who actually likes their work.

[That Aud Smell]

Based on what I read on these two boards, I think there are a ton of people who click on it to hate read it.  I trust 11 when he says he never clicks, but so many others I don't.  They usually have too much detail to not have read it.  Those hate read clicks count just as much as the masochist who actually likes their work.

 

My point would be: If the clicks were there, TBN would not have moved to take away their columns.