pick for Karlsson

[brador]

Would it make sense to trade the first pick for a known superstar (Karlsson)? The guy likely still has 5-6 more great years ahead of him. Even though Dahlin looks like a lock to become a foundational player, there's been others with that reputation who didn't pan out. With Karlsson, you know what you're getting. I'm thinking Ottawa would need to pick up some of his salary in order for Buffalo to be able to fit in under the cap.

 

 

[Radar]

NO!!!!!

[LGR4GM]

 

I think Rasmus Dahlin will be better then Karlsson.

[darksabre]

 

I like Karlsson, but no way.

[rjones71]

What a first post!!!!

[Randall Flagg]

If Karlsson was 24, I'd do it. Not now.

[Brawndo]

If Karlsson was 24, I'd do it. Not now.

I still wouldn’t. You would be losing six years of Dahlin’s Career including three on his ELC.

 

He might prove a majority of scouts, GMs, draftniks wrong and never reach Karlsson’s or Hedman’s Level, however I still want to find out.

[LGR4GM]

Would it make sense to trade the first pick for a known superstar (Karlsson)? The guy likely still has 5-6 more great years ahead of him. Even though Dahlin looks like a lock to become a foundational player, there's been others with that reputation who didn't pan out. With Karlsson, you know what you're getting. I'm thinking Ottawa would need to pick up some of his salary in order for Buffalo to be able to fit in under the cap.

I'll add, it's odd you're worried about the 1 year left at Karlsson current cap while disregarding his next contract which will be more. Rasmus Dahlin is cost controlled for the next 3 years. He's partially cost controlled for the next 6.

[bunomatic]

I take the kid

[Randall Flagg]

I still wouldn’t. You would be losing six years of Dahlin’s Career including three on his ELC.

 

He might prove a majority of scouts, GMs, draftniks wrong and never reach Karlsson’s or Hedman’s Level, however I still want to find out.

I don't think a majority of scouts, GMs, and draftniks believe that Dahlin is going to be better than Karlsson.

 

I hear many say he's got a chance to be special, and be on that level, and pass that level. There is a difference.

 

Those guys would be equally unsurprised if a time traveler came and told them Dahlin leveled off below Karlsson and Hedman and was merely an all-star talent, and a top 10 D in the league as opposed to 1 and 2 (IMO) for an extended stretch of time.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[inkman]

Would it make sense to trade the first pick for a known superstar (Karlsson)? The guy likely still has 5-6 more great years ahead of him. Even though Dahlin looks like a lock to become a foundational player, there's been others with that reputation who didn't pan out. With Karlsson, you know what you're getting. I'm thinking Ottawa would need to pick up some of his salary in order for Buffalo to be able to fit in under the cap.

I think the Sabres have enough assets to acquire him without giving up Dahlin. Risto & ROR are good pieces to work with. I wouldn't want to trade both and the Sabres would have to take on a hell of a lot of salary to make it work.

[Derrico]

I don't think a majority of scouts, GMs, and draftniks believe that Dahlin is going to be better than Karlsson.

 

I hear many say he's got a chance to be special, and be on that level, and pass that level. There is a difference.

 

To the first point, from everything I've read there are many who believe he has the potential to be better than EK. I don't think majority could be quantified as I don't know how many qualify under that description tho.

 

I'm not sure what your second point means.

 

There are many saying he could be at and possibly pass that level which is what you state. Isn't that contradictory to your first point? No scout will ever say definitively he will be better than player x.

 

Dahlin is further ahead of where EK was in his draft year. I don't think that's even debatable. The question is, has Dahlin maxed out potential or will he take the next steps similar to what EK did his first few years in the league?

[Brawndo]

I don't think a majority of scouts, GMs, and draftniks believe that Dahlin is going to be better than Karlsson.

I hear many say he's got a chance to be special, and be on that level, and pass that level. There is a difference.

Those guys would be equally unsurprised if a time traveler came and told them Dahlin leveled off below Karlsson and Hedman and was merely an all-star talent, and a top 10 D in the league as opposed to 1 and 2 (IMO) for an extended stretch of time.

 

 

 

I still wouldn’t. You would be losing six years of Dahlin’s Career including three on his ELC.

He might prove a majority of scouts, GMs, draftniks wrong and never reach Karlsson’s or Hedman’s Level, however I still want to find out.

Where in the above quote did I say he would be better than Karlsson or Hedman for that matter?

 

This is from Craig Custance in The Athletic

 

Rasmus Dahlin, D, Frolunda (SWE)

 

He’s the defensive version of Auston Matthews or Connor McDavid. He’s a franchise-changer who also happens to fit a real need for the Sabres and forms a core with Jack Eichel, Casey Mittelstadt and fellow defenseman Rasmus Ristolainen that should vault the Sabres back into playoff contention sooner rather than later. “I believe he’s a generational player and most people in the industry do,” said a GM of Dahlin. – Craig Custance (@CraigCustance)

 

And this is from Karlsson Himself

 

Erik Karlsson, also a product of Frölunda’s successful junior programme, looks at Dahlin and sees something very special in the 17 year-old Swedish Olympian.

“He plays a fun brand of hockey”, Karlsson told Swedish website hockeysverige.se recently. “That’s great to see. He wants to hold on to the puck and find solutions instead of just throwing it away. I appreciate that there are young guys who still likes to play hockey that way.”

 

The comparisons between Karlsson and Dahlin have been on full display over the past few months. As offensive defensemen, they both have the poise and patience to control the pace of the game. They are both very mobile and seem to be one step a head of their peers on the ice.

 

Still, Dahlin has a bigger body and is ahead of Karlsson compared to where the two-time Norris Trophy winner was at the same age. While Karlsson didn’t play regular minutes in the SHL at 17, Dahlin averages about 20 minutes per game with Frölunda this season. The Ottawa Senators captain is very much aware of that.

“I don’t think you could make the comparison because I think he’s much better than I was at that age”, Karlsson said. “If you look at where I was at that age, I wasn’t even half as good as he is now. There’s obviously a lot of upside there and hopefully he’ll continue to develop and adapt to the game over here. From what I hear, I don’t think he’s going to have a problem fitting in.”

[bunomatic]

Coming from Karlsson, thats something. 

[Derrico]

Ya that's the stuff I've been reading. Nick Lindstrom commented how Dahlin is better than he was at that same age.

 

Several Swedish scouts quoted as saying he could be the best Swedish defensive prospect ever.

 

I'm sure some is just hyperbole. But these arnt Sabrespace posters or even Kris Baker saying these things.

 

Ofcourse he's a prospect and anything can happen. But the hype of Dahlin being better than Karlson eventually is definitely out there and not just from message board posters.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I’ll give our Nylander and 2nd next year for Karlsson.

[Randall Flagg]

To the first point, from everything I've read there are many who believe he has the potential to be better than EK. I don't think majority could be quantified as I don't know how many qualify under that description tho.

 

I'm not sure what your second point means.

 

There are many saying he could be at and possibly pass that level which is what you state. Isn't that contradictory to your first point? No scout will ever say definitively he will be better than player x.

 

Dahlin is further ahead of where EK was in his draft year. I don't think that's even debatable. The question is, has Dahlin maxed out potential or will he take the next steps similar to what EK did his first few years in the league?

Right. They aren't saying he will be better than Karlsson. They're saying that he could develop to be, and he could also not. But they focus on the fact that he could, because that is exciting for hockey fans.

And of course he's a better prospect than Karlsson, who was drafted after Tyler Myers. But Karlsson's development made him the greatest offensive defenseman in decades, and top 4 all time in terms of offense from the back-end when adjusted for era. He's done plenty of offensive things that only Bobby Orr has ever done. 

 

No sane person would ever say "Dahlin, a 17 year old kid, will do this." 

 

They're saying "Dahlin is better at 17 than undersized Karlsson was", which is exciting, but also to be expected when Erik was five feet tall and 150 pounds.

[Derrico]

Right. They aren't saying he will be better than Karlsson. They're saying that he could develop to be, and he could also not. But they focus on the fact that he could, because that is exciting for hockey fans.

Well sure. Ofcourse nobody can definitively 100 percent say he will be better. I can't even say he will be better than Antipin. But there are many scouts with some very high praise.

[LGR4GM]

Right. They aren't saying he will be better than Karlsson. They're saying that he could develop to be, and he could also not. But they focus on the fact that he could, because that is exciting for hockey fans.

 

And of course he's a better prospect than Karlsson, who was drafted after Tyler Myers. But Karlsson's development made him the greatest offensive defenseman in decades, and top 4 all time in terms of offense from the back-end when adjusted for era. He's done plenty of offensive things that only Bobby Orr has ever done.

 

No sane person would ever say "Dahlin, a 17 year old kid, will do this."

 

They're saying "Dahlin is better at 17 than undersized Karlsson was", which is exciting, but also to be expected when Erik was five feet tall and 150 pounds.

Dahlin is doing things with the puck and his skating that I'm not sure Karlsson can do now. It isn't just about him being physically more ready. His skill and iq are top level.

[Randall Flagg]

Dahlin is doing things with the puck and his skating that I'm not sure Karlsson can do now. It isn't just about him being physically more ready. His skill and iq are top level.

I'm aware. 

 

I'm just defending my take that I'd trade him for a 24year old known entity, as in, known as already being historically great. Because Dahlin looks awesome and has tantalizing upside, but even he has a long way to go before being as generational as EK has been, who again, shares many stats with Bobby Orr, and only Bobby Orr. 

And that won't get changed by arguing that he is further ahead at 17 years old than EK was (who was drafted in the middle of the first round) or Lidstrom (third round maybe?) because obviously those guys had literal historic, hall-of-fame worthy development curves that 99.99% of all prospects, even great ones, don't have. So I just am not guaranteeing that Dahlin will share a similar curve. That is all I'm doing

[LGR4GM]

Oh yea you're good. I don't want you to think I'm against your take or really arguing.

[Randall Flagg]

Oh yea you're good. I don't want you to think I'm against your take or really arguing.

Boo, I can't stomp and scream at this.

[LGR4GM]

Boo, I can't stomp and scream at this.

I mean, I do disagree but not like vehemently. Does that help?

[CallawaySabres]

Wow

[Neo]

My world’s a bit off its axis since True face washed the Hockey Gods and we still we won the lottery. Accordingly, I’m not sure I have anything cautionary to write after seeing “Bobby Orr” in a paragraph about Dahlin.

 

Robert Gordon Orr, from Parry Sound, Ontario. I think I’m feeling the vapours.

 

 

Edited to eliminate a blasphemy.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Neo