Trade Speculation and Rumors 2018-19

[LGR4GM]

I think my take away is that ROR isn't getting traded.

[inkman]

Thanks Flagg for summing up many sane posters feelings about the rumor mill. Utter garbage that gets turned into fact and ultimately an E5.

[Thorner]

Hey, Flagg!

 

 

But ya, I agree fully.

 

These insiders basically operate on the same plane as mediums. Educated guesswork, at best. Their business doesn’t serve to promote hockey, it exists to perpetuate the insider business. Clicks.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Thorny

[Huckleberry]

The cake is a lie 

[dudacek]

So your initial claim that “the insiders” fabricate things isn’t actually that they fabricate things, it’s that the mix of fact and opinion they share perpetuates a false narrative that essentially feeds itself?

 

Well duh. ????

The internet isn’t that smart and most people don’t pay attention

Edited June 19, 2018 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

So your initial claim that “the insiders” fabricate things isn’t actually that they fabricate things, it’s that the mix of fact and opinion they share perpetuates a false narrative that essentially feeds itself?

 

Well duh.

The internet isn’t that smart and most people don’t pay attention

Dreger appears to have fabricated about two months of Kane interest. I shouldn't have used that word from the beach in Maine typing quickly in the glare of the sun, but if you want to hold me to that, go for it! :P

 

That initial "fabrication" is what set me off about trade rumors in the first place, 4 months ago, and it's with that context I bring up what is currently going on. FWIW, Dreger is being professional and consistent here.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[WildCard]

Dreger appears to have fabricated about two months of Kane interest. I shouldn't have used that word from the beach in Maine typing quickly in the glare of the sun, but if you want to hold me to that, go for it! :P

 

That initial "fabrication" is what set me off about trade rumors in the first place, 4 months ago, and it's with that context I bring up what is currently going on. FWIW, Dreger is being professional and consistent here.

I really don't think he fabricated anything. He reported what he was hearing at the time. Do things change? Sure

 

Be honest, you're really just mad cause deep down you know Botterril should've gotten more for Kane  :nana:

[Randall Flagg]

I really don't think he fabricated anything. He reported what he was hearing at the time. Do things change? Sure

 

Be honest, you're really just mad cause deep down you know Botterril should've gotten more for Kane  :nana:

I agree things change, but something was fishy when hot talks and formal offers turn into Botterill receiving one formal offer the entirety of the saga, like 5 mins before the deadline. I won't go protest outside of Darren Dreger's office in certainty that he's plotting an evil conspiracy, but his info was wrong somehow and he's responsible for that. And it chafes me. I understand if it doesn't bother other people. 

 

Also I was fine with the Kane return at the time and like it more now! 

[dudacek]

Dreger is an interesting one.

I think he climbed to where he is because of his direct access to Dave Nonis while both worked in Toronto.

He got good info.

 

But once Nonis was tossed he was left struggling to keep up with his better-connected competitors and started to flail a bit.

He has credibility, but to me, he is the one most likely to feed you his own take filtered through what he’s heard through the grapevine or other reporters, rather than from-the-source reporting.

 

When McKenzie tells you the asking price for O’Reilly, he has heard it firsthand from someone involved in the talks, and likely corroborated it with other sources.

 

If he says he believes it is likely O’Reilly will be traded, its coming from a base of knowledge built through regular conversations with agents and executives that provide a solid foundation for that opinion.

 

When Dreger regularly talks about the market for Kane over a two-month period, it’s mostly because he has a different radio show host in a different market asking him about Kane Every single week.

Edited June 19, 2018 by dudacek

[Thorner]

So your initial claim that “the insiders” fabricate things isn’t actually that they fabricate things, it’s that the mix of fact and opinion they share perpetuates a false narrative that essentially feeds itself?

Well duh.

The internet isn’t that smart and most people don’t pay attention

No, they fabricate things, too.

[inkman]

So your initial claim that “the insiders” fabricate things isn’t actually that they fabricate things, it’s that the mix of fact and opinion they share perpetuates a false narrative that essentially feeds itself?

 

Well duh. ????

The internet isn’t that smart and most people don’t pay attention

Then the uninformed masses take their crap as gospel and run with it.

[Randall Flagg]

Dreger is an interesting one.

I think he climbed to where he is because of his direct access to Dave Nonis while both worked in Toronto.

He got good info.

 

But once Nonis was tossed he was left struggling to keep up with his better-connected competitors and started to flail a bit.

He has credibility, but to me, he is the one most likely to feed you his own take filtered through what he’s heard through the grapevine or other reporters, rather than from-the-source reporting.

 

When McKenzie tells you the asking price for O’Reilly, he has heard it firsthand from someone involved in the talks, and likely corroborated it with other sources.

 

If he says he believes it is likely O’Reilly will be traded, its coming from a base of knowledge built through regular conversations with agents and executives that provide a solid foundation for that opinion.

 

When Dreger regularly talks about the market for Kane over a two-month period, it’s mostly because he has a different radio show host in a different market asking him about Kane Every single week.

I don't even have a problem with McKenzie's belief that ROR is going to be traded. But if someone told him we're shopping ROR, he'd say it. I see where he gets the opinion from, and I don't agree with it, but he's just talking what would make sense from a team building perspective and what he thinks about things such as ROR's comments. If there were more to it than meets the eye, he would say so, because the precedent is that he does say so, including the example of this very topic, when he mentioned that somebody told him what the ask was when they called us.

 

The problem is that imminent feel we all have been given now by dozens of guys and hundreds of nameless tweeters and forum posters that the trade is going to happen any second, while Botterill has actually just been doing the same thing he's been doing since November, taking calls, and now is the time of year when things actually happen. Bobby and Friedmann are why it's so loud, because people are dumb on twitter

I just think there's nothing to suggest that the following isn't the case, including everything the most plugged in guys have ever said on the topic:

 

Botterill is inclined to keep ROR unless somebody blows him away, and he's going to take phone calls on literally asset we have, including Dahlin and Eichel. There are guys he's more willing to move than others, and ROR is on the "you had better blow me away" side of the likelihood spectrum. 

 

That's what I stick to, and it is also, completely coincidentally, what I hope to be correct. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The bottomline, as I’ve said for weeks and weeks, we don't have enough top end talent to start trading the top guys we do have. Moving ROR, Risto or Reinhart is very premature in the development of this team. ROR isn't going anywhere unless someone is willing to give us a good center and either a top 6 winger or a top 4 D plus a future in return.

[Brawndo]

I agree things change, but something was fishy when hot talks and formal offers turn into Botterill receiving one formal offer the entirety of the saga, like 5 mins before the deadline. I won't go protest outside of Darren Dreger's office in certainty that he's plotting an evil conspiracy, but his info was wrong somehow and he's responsible for that. And it chafes me. I understand if it doesn't bother other people. 

Also I was fine with the Kane return at the time and like it more now!

 

It’s been reported that there were other offers for Kane but only two had the possibility of a conditional first round pick.

Interestingly enough back in January when talking a Kane Trade, McKenzie was asked if any teams would possibly acquire him at the trade deadline with the intention of signing him to an extension, McKenzie mentioned the Sharks would be interested in doing so.

 

And enjoy your vacation, it’s well deserved

[dudacek]

I don't even have a problem with McKenzie's belief that ROR is going to be traded. But if someone told him we're shopping ROR, he'd say it. I see where he gets the opinion from, and I don't agree with it, but he's just talking what would make sense from a team building perspective and what he thinks about things such as ROR's comments. If there were more to it than meets the eye, he would say so, because the precedent is that he does say so, including the example of this very topic, when he mentioned that somebody told him what the ask was when they called us.

 

The problem is that imminent feel we all have been given now by dozens of guys and hundreds of nameless tweeters and forum posters that the trade is going to happen any second, while Botterill has actually just been doing the same thing he's been doing since November, taking calls, and now is the time of year when things actually happen. Bobby and Friedmann are why it's so loud, because people are dumb on twitterI just think there's nothing to suggest that the following isn't the case, including everything the most plugged in guys have ever said on the topic:

Botterill is inclined to keep ROR unless somebody blows him away, and he's going to take phone calls on literally asset we have, including Dahlin and Eichel. There are guys he's more willing to move than others, and ROR is on the "you had better blow me away" side of the likelihood spectrum. 

 

That's what I stick to, and it is also, completely coincidentally, what I hope to be correct.

 

I generally agree, but I also think Botterill believes, that in addition to talent issues, there are leadership and chemistry issues in the room that also need to be addressed. There are real-life issues that happen behind the scene that factor into personnel decisions and they don’t all become public like the Hoffman thing.

 

I think there may be more of a desire to make a deal than you are willing to concede.

[nfreeman]

Who’s going to keep the sharp objects away from Flagg when ROR is traded for Pacioretty and a 2019 conditional 2nd?

[Brawndo]

Who’s going to keep the sharp objects away from Flagg when ROR is traded for Pacioretty and a 2019 conditional 2nd?

This statement would apply to a large majority of the board, myself included.

[Radar]

The bottomline, as I’ve said for weeks and weeks, we don't have enough top end talent to start trading the top guys we do have. Moving ROR, Risto or Reinhart is very premature in the development of this team. ROR isn't going anywhere unless someone is willing to give us a good center and either a top 6 winger or a top 4 D plus a future in return.

Man I hope you're right. I really don't want these guys traded unless the return is big.

[Randall Flagg]

I generally agree, but I also think Botterill believes, that in addition to talent issues, there are leadership and chemistry issues in the room that also need to be addressed. There are real-life issues that happen behind the scene that factor into personnel decisions and they don’t all become public like the Hoffman thing.

 

I think there may be more of a desire to make a deal than you are willing to concede.

This could be true, but I don't believe that information is out there, even as given by McKenzie. Which is why I will not go as far as even saying a ROR trade is definitely unlikely

 

 

Who’s going to keep the sharp objects away from Flagg when ROR is traded for Pacioretty and a 2019 conditional 2nd?

If this happens........

[Brawndo]

Flagg ROR seems to agree with you,

 

From Friedman at the Vegas Awards

 

“I saw Ryan O’Reilly here. He just looked at me and he started laughing. I said, ‘Good luck,’ and he said, ‘Thanks very much.’

 

“He knows he’s in the middle of everything. So it’s going to be interesting to see what happens.”

 

O’Reilly has five seasons to go on his bonus-heavy contract, which carries a cap hit of $7.5 million.

[Randall Flagg]

Flagg ROR seems to agree with you,

 

From Friedman at the Vegas Awards

 

“I saw Ryan O’Reilly here. He just looked at me and he started laughing. I said, ‘Good luck,’ and he said, ‘Thanks very much.’

 

“He knows he’s in the middle of everything. So it’s going to be interesting to see what happens.”

 

O’Reilly has five seasons to go on his bonus-heavy contract, which carries a cap hit of $7.5 million.

When is that awards show?

[bunomatic]

When is that awards show?

Thursday isn't it ?

[Brawndo]

Tomorrow Night I believe

[SABRES 0311]

Well her +/- wasn't available so this is all I had

I think the pic has enough plus value. Maybe he can trade that 10 for a 9 and an option when she turns 50.

Edited June 20, 2018 by RambosKnife

[LTS]

The incentive is that he can get one more year of term from the Islanders than he can from anyone else.  He could pull a Stamkos.

 

Does he lose that extra year option if he goes to UFA and signs with the Islanders?  I think he doesn't, which is what I think you are stating with the Stamkos reference.  That's what I am getting at... 

 

No way in hell I would sign a contract today.  I would go to UFA, get my offers and decide where I want to go.  The Islanders have to make a strong offer and they can't reduce it just because he tested free agency.  If they did it, their fanbase would hate them more than they already do.