erickompositör72 Posted January 22, 2019 Report Posted January 22, 2019 People talk about not getting a 2C as it seems to be a no-confidence vote in Mittelstadt. I know this is highly hypothetical, but what about a 2C who has already "peaked," who has a few years on a contract, who would transition nicely to 3C as his abilities slightly decline with age, allowing Casey to step into the 2C role? No, I don't have any in mind to fit this bill- just spit-balling Quote
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2019 Report Posted January 22, 2019 3 hours ago, shrader said: I'd love to see a plan that actually works with zero deviations. Of course, plans can, do and should change when needed. I don't think at this point the plans have deviated so much as to have JBOT going after a 2C. IMO, if he did, as @... said, the plan has been blown up. Quote
mjd1001 Posted January 22, 2019 Report Posted January 22, 2019 5 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Why? What has Mittelstadt done to make you think he will be less than that or has stopped developing? Or are you surprised if Jbott trades for one? I wish MIttlestadt was doing better, but in the big picture I don't think he is 'off track' for a 20 year old 1st year center. He is 'on pace' for 12 goals and 12 assists this year. That is with getting 30% less ice time than the top forwards (30% theoretical scoring chances). And while he has been used on the PP, he has less than 1/2 the ice time of the top guys. Give him a few more minutes ice time (esp on the PP) and I think his numbers will be a bit better. As this is his first year in the league, it is probably better he is getting less ice time and not being forced into bad situations/pressure situations with a heavier work load. Quote
dudacek Posted January 22, 2019 Report Posted January 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, mjd1001 said: I wish MIttlestadt was doing better, but in the big picture I don't think he is 'off track' for a 20 year old 1st year center. He is 'on pace' for 12 goals and 12 assists this year. That is with getting 30% less ice time than the top forwards (30% theoretical scoring chances). And while he has been used on the PP, he has less than 1/2 the ice time of the top guys. Give him a few more minutes ice time (esp on the PP) and I think his numbers will be a bit better. As this is his first year in the league, it is probably better he is getting less ice time and not being forced into bad situations/pressure situations with a heavier work load. On the other hand, his production is about half that of Sam Reinhart at the same age. I'd be content if he ends up a Reinhart-level player, but I think more highly of Sam than a lot of observers. What if Casey is Derek Roy? Or Cody Hodgson? Quote
Weave Posted January 22, 2019 Report Posted January 22, 2019 3 hours ago, erickompositör72 said: People talk about not getting a 2C as it seems to be a no-confidence vote in Mittelstadt. I know this is highly hypothetical, but what about a 2C who has already "peaked," who has a few years on a contract, who would transition nicely to 3C as his abilities slightly decline with age, allowing Casey to step into the 2C role? No, I don't have any in mind to fit this bill- just spit-balling I think that is exactly what most who want a 2C are looking for. 1 hour ago, dudacek said: On the other hand, his production is about half that of Sam Reinhart at the same age. I'd be content if he ends up a Reinhart-level player, but I think more highly of Sam than a lot of observers. What if Casey is Derek Roy? Or Cody Hodgson? Not gonna lie. I'm concerned about where Casey may peak. He's young, he's got time to develop. By no means would I advocate giving up on him. But I'm a little concerned. The one thing I see in his favor is that he does from time to time make a wow play. I think it's in him. But he does need to start better reacting to the speed the NHL game is played at. Where do I hope he peaks? Roy would be fantastic, really. So would pre-illness level Hodgson. Pre-concussion Connolly? Be still my beating heart. As long as he peaks higher than Curtis Brown I think we'll be OK. Quote
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 5 hours ago, shrader said: You don't take on a guy with 3-4 years left on a contract (I forget the exact number) if you aren't planning on him being around for more than two months. They full expected him to be a part of this team for multiple seasons. Getting out from his deal was obviously not a part of any plan. I never said he wasn't expected to be around for "more than two months". I also never said the plan was to get out of his deal. I did however use the words "useful" and "body filler in the line-up".....the salary dump was the part we took on for STL paying ROR the $7M. None of this screams "I expect this for only 2 months nor even another year. If anyone expected or even stood behind Berglund as a "productive" player, it was me on several occasions even prior to this season. I really wished it had worked out. Quote
sweetlou Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 If you were JBotts would you trade Reinhart, Scandella and Larsson to Edmonton for Nugent-Hopkins, Matt Benning and Zach Kassian? Nugent-Hopkins gives them a #2 center for next three years. Kassian gives Buffalo some needed toughness on the forward lines. Benning fills in nicely at 3rd line RD. Skinner- Eichel- Nylander Sheary- Nugget-Hopkins- Thompson CJ Smith- Mitts- Okposo Girgensons- ERod- Kassian McCabe- Risto Dahlin- Bogo Pilut- Benning 1 Quote
inkman Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 36 minutes ago, sweetlou said: If you were JBotts would you trade Reinhart, Scandella and Larsson to Edmonton for Nugent-Hopkins, Matt Benning and Zach Kassian? Nugent-Hopkins gives them a #2 center for next three years. Kassian gives Buffalo some needed toughness on the forward lines. Benning fills in nicely at 3rd line RD. Skinner- Eichel- Nylander Sheary- Nugget-Hopkins- Thompson CJ Smith- Mitts- Okposo Girgensons- ERod- Kassian McCabe- Risto Dahlin- Bogo Pilut- Benning I wouldn't trade a steaming pile of poo for RNH. He is not the Droid we are looking for. 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, sweetlou said: If you were JBotts would you trade Reinhart, Scandella and Larsson to Edmonton for Nugent-Hopkins, Matt Benning and Zach Kassian? Nugent-Hopkins gives them a #2 center for next three years. Kassian gives Buffalo some needed toughness on the forward lines. Benning fills in nicely at 3rd line RD Why do any of this other than trade for RNH? Why are you trading Larsson? Why trade Reinhart? If you are trading good players to get "toughness' you should be fired immediately as GM. You want to give up a 1st line RW, a 3rd line center, and a 3rd pairing defender for a 2nd line center, 4th line winger, and 3rd line winger. Bad trade. Quote
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 Here's the 2C to develop Mitts... hhttps://www.tsn.ca/agent-datsyuk-could-return-to-nhl-1.1246026elp Datsyuk might want to come back to NHL. Coyotes own his rights, but only until July 1st. Quote
shrader Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: Why do any of this other than trade for RNH? Why are you trading Larsson? Why trade Reinhart? If you are trading good players to get "toughness' you should be fired immediately as GM. You want to give up a 1st line RW, a 3rd line center, and a 3rd pairing defender for a 2nd line center, 4th line winger, and 3rd line winger. Bad trade. There's never any rhyme or reason. Quote
jame Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 I'm most interested in an immediate rental trade, with the ideal target being Eric Staal. The priority should be making the playoffs, and getting our young core the experience they desperately need. Prioritizing coin flip draft picks who likely don't make a difference until Dahlin's ELC is over, Reinhart's bridge is over and Eichel's half way through his contract, is a huge waste of time. Staal would help mask the colossal short term error Botts made in the ROR trade. We'd get him for a playoff push, and hopefully a bit of playoff success (wins). And then ideally we'd be able to convince him to sign a 2 year extension in the offseason. From a trade rental/cost perspective we are probably looking at something like: SJ 1st + Mid round pick + Sean Malone Couple adding Staal with allowing the next wave of Rochester talent to push the under performing vets out of the lineup, and we get to a much more capable forward lineup for the stretch run: Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart Sheary/Erod-Staal-Okposo (find out if we can squeeze one last drop out of Okposo with a high end vet center) Nylander/Olofsson-Mitterstadt-Thompson Sheary/Erod-Larsson-Girgs x Sobotka, Poms 2 Quote
North Buffalo Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said: Here's the 2C to develop Mitts... hhttps://www.tsn.ca/agent-datsyuk-could-return-to-nhl-1.1246026elp Datsyuk might want to come back to NHL. Coyotes own his rights, but only until July 1st. Datsyuk is still God! Do it and Sabres can have God and our Lord and Savior Mitts 1 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, jame said: I'm most interested in an immediate rental trade, with the ideal target being Eric Staal. The priority should be making the playoffs, and getting our young core the experience they desperately need. Prioritizing coin flip draft picks who likely don't make a difference until Dahlin's ELC is over, Reinhart's bridge is over and Eichel's half way through his contract, is a huge waste of time. Staal would help mask the colossal short term error Botts made in the ROR trade. We'd get him for a playoff push, and hopefully a bit of playoff success (wins). And then ideally we'd be able to convince him to sign a 2 year extension in the offseason. From a trade rental/cost perspective we are probably looking at something like: SJ 1st + Mid round pick + Sean Malone Couple adding Staal with allowing the next wave of Rochester talent to push the under performing vets out of the lineup, and we get to a much more capable forward lineup for the stretch run: Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart Sheary/Erod-Staal-Okposo (find out if we can squeeze one last drop out of Okposo with a high end vet center) Nylander/Olofsson-Mitterstadt-Thompson Sheary/Erod-Larsson-Girgs x Sobotka, Poms I disagree with a lot of what you wrote but have said the reasons why multiple times. In an effort to not repeat that, let me just say welcome. 1 1 1 Quote
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, jame said: I'm most interested in an immediate rental trade, with the ideal target being Eric Staal. The priority should be making the playoffs, and getting our young core the experience they desperately need. Prioritizing coin flip draft picks who likely don't make a difference until Dahlin's ELC is over, Reinhart's bridge is over and Eichel's half way through his contract, is a huge waste of time. Staal would help mask the colossal short term error Botts made in the ROR trade. We'd get him for a playoff push, and hopefully a bit of playoff success (wins). And then ideally we'd be able to convince him to sign a 2 year extension in the offseason. From a trade rental/cost perspective we are probably looking at something like: SJ 1st + Mid round pick + Sean Malone Couple adding Staal with allowing the next wave of Rochester talent to push the under performing vets out of the lineup, and we get to a much more capable forward lineup for the stretch run: Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart Sheary/Erod-Staal-Okposo (find out if we can squeeze one last drop out of Okposo with a high end vet center) Nylander/Olofsson-Mitterstadt-Thompson Sheary/Erod-Larsson-Girgs x Sobotka, Poms I do not agree with what you are selling here, but like LGR, I welcome you and your contributions (you have defended your points well in your first post and I would say that many here will agree with your stance) to our little corner of the Internet. We are a great big loving and very dysfunctional family around here. Sent you a beer. 1 Quote
Thorner Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 7 hours ago, sweetlou said: If you were JBotts would you trade Reinhart, Scandella and Larsson to Edmonton for Nugent-Hopkins, Matt Benning and Zach Kassian? Nugent-Hopkins gives them a #2 center for next three years. Kassian gives Buffalo some needed toughness on the forward lines. Benning fills in nicely at 3rd line RD. Skinner- Eichel- Nylander Sheary- Nugget-Hopkins- Thompson CJ Smith- Mitts- Okposo Girgensons- ERod- Kassian McCabe- Risto Dahlin- Bogo Pilut- Benning No, namely because I'd rather have Reinhart than Nugent-Hopkins. 1 Quote
jame Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said: I do not agree with what you are selling here, but like LGR, I welcome you and your contributions (you have defended your points well in your first post and I would say that many here will agree with your stance) to our little corner of the Internet. We are a great big loving and very dysfunctional family around here. Sent you a beer. It does surprise me how little value is placed on winning, while such high value is placed on unknown assets that cannot reasonably be expected to make a difference for years, while the unforced errors (ROR trade) continue to have detrimental effects to the present and future of the roster. I am not advocating going full Murray (multiple high value futures for multiple young vets), I’m advocating for one very specific move, the benefits of which would impact both the young core (winning, playoffs, etc) and the kids (roster alignment, quality line mates, appropriate deployment). and it’s a hole we are going to have to fill in the offseason.... why wait? Patience doesn’t guarantee success anymore than acceleration guarantees failure. We are not going to win a cup the the Eichel/Dahlin era because we had 4 firsts in 2019-20.... thanks for the welcoming Edited January 23, 2019 by jame 2 Quote
Brawndo Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Posted January 23, 2019 Something to keep in mind. I do not believe The Sabres can Trade the San Jose or St. Louis Firsts as of yet since the conditions on those picks have not been met, therefore they do not belong to the Sabres right now. I still believe Botterill adds his place holder 2C around the draft when every team would be willing to move roster players. Teams are going to be in a cap crunch this summer and are going to need to move players. Players who are in bottom six roles such as Kadri or JT Miller may become available as both teams need cap space. Quote
Thorner Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Something to keep in mind. I do not believe The Sabres can Trade the San Jose or St. Louis Firsts as of yet since the conditions on those picks have not been met, therefore they do not belong to the Sabres right now. I still believe Botterill adds his place holder 2C around the draft when every team would be willing to move roster players. Teams are going to be in a cap crunch this summer and are going to need to move players. Players who are in bottom six roles such as Kadri or JT Miller may become available as both teams need cap space. I believe you can still trade picks that have conditions on them? Quote
Hoss Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Thorny said: I believe you can still trade picks that have conditions on them? Correct 4 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Something to keep in mind. I do not believe The Sabres can Trade the San Jose or St. Louis Firsts as of yet since the conditions on those picks have not been met, therefore they do not belong to the Sabres right now. False, the Sabres can absolutely trade those picks. The acquiring team would just take over with the conditions in mind (the Sabres could even ADD conditions to those conditional picks if they want). 1 Quote
jame Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Something to keep in mind. I do not believe The Sabres can Trade the San Jose or St. Louis Firsts as of yet since the conditions on those picks have not been met, therefore they do not belong to the Sabres right now. I still believe Botterill adds his place holder 2C around the draft when every team would be willing to move roster players. Teams are going to be in a cap crunch this summer and are going to need to move players. Players who are in bottom six roles such as Kadri or JT Miller may become available as both teams need cap space. They could structure the conditions of the trade as such that it would become the SJ 1st JT Miller is a RW only... he is getting traded, I hope it’s not to us. Toronto would never trade Kadri in division im not actually interested in acquiring a long term center. We need a short term solution... and we need it now. Edited January 23, 2019 by jame Quote
Brawndo Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Thorny said: I believe you can still trade picks that have conditions on them? 10 minutes ago, Hoss said: Correct False, the Sabres can absolutely trade those picks. The acquiring team would just take over with the conditions in mind (the Sabres could even ADD conditions to those conditional picks if they want). My bad I was going on Brayton Wilson’s Earlier Tweets on this subject, I did not see his correction a short time ago. Quote
Taro T Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Something to keep in mind. I do not believe The Sabres can Trade the San Jose or St. Louis Firsts as of yet since the conditions on those picks have not been met, therefore they do not belong to the Sabres right now. I still believe Botterill adds his place holder 2C around the draft when every team would be willing to move roster players. Teams are going to be in a cap crunch this summer and are going to need to move players. Players who are in bottom six roles such as Kadri or JT Miller may become available as both teams need cap space. The Sabres can trade either or both those 1sts. It's just the team receiving either or both picks might place additional conditions on obtaining the picks as they may want something additionally should the pick slide to next season. Quote
Brawndo Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Posted January 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Thorny said: I believe you can still trade picks that have conditions on them? 17 minutes ago, Hoss said: Correct False, the Sabres can absolutely trade those picks. The acquiring team would just take over with the conditions in mind (the Sabres could even ADD conditions to those conditional picks if they want). 13 minutes ago, jame said: They could structure the conditions of the trade as such that it would become the SJ 1st JT Miller is a RW only... he is getting traded, I hope it’s not to us. Toronto would never trade Kadri in division im not actually interested in acquiring a long term center. We need a short term solution... and we need it now. 3 minutes ago, Taro T said: The Sabres can trade either or both those 1sts. It's just the team receiving either or both picks might place additional conditions on obtaining the picks as they may want something additionally should the pick slide to next season. Duly noted 1 Quote
Thorner Posted January 23, 2019 Report Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Duly noted Hey, the Sabres CAN trade the pics. Not sure if you've heard? Edited January 23, 2019 by Thorny Edit: The Sabres can trade the pics 1 Quote
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