Trade Speculation and Rumors 2018-19

[WildCard]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

No, and I didn’t watch him.

I did watch Nylander play a few games in the NHL this year and didn’t think he looked lost at all.

I also watched Nylander dominate at the WJC two years ago, look lifeless while putting up decent numbers at the WJC this year and be invisible during the Amerks playoff run. I also listened to Taylor and a few others talk about how well he played over the last six weeks or so of the season after being tentative and ineffective coming off his injury prior to that. I read about how he didn’t “earn” his numbers over that stretch, but that doesn’t change the fact he still produced at a 60 point pace and his coaches liked his game.

i don’t like Nylander’s game. I’m also not a big fan of Max Pacioretty’s game. But Pacioretty has proven that soft, skilled perimeter wingers can have success in the NHL. Nylander might be able to do the same.

I have my doubts, but I am not going to write a player off who just turned 20, especially considering the way Murray mishandled his development and how injury hampered the first half of his season last year.

I do expect him to be more of a factor for the Amerks this year.

Jason Pominville - with a similar game - put up 34 points for the Amerks during the season he turned 21. That’s the season Nylander is about to have. That’s what people need to remember.

How well he played over the last 6 weeks of the season? The dude was benched during the playoffs, no?

I don't mind players like Nylander with his skill set. I just don't think Nylander is smart enough to be Pacioretty

I'd rather cut my losses now and trade him for someone else

But the expectations for Nylander aren't the same as they are for Pominville. We drafted Nylander thinking he'd be a force in the NHL, that we'd get a scoring winger like Skinner to finally play with Jack. We drafted Pominville at the end of the 2nd round just hoping he'd make it to the NHL.

If Nylander puts up a PPG like Pominville did in his 2nd season in the AHL (this will be Nylander's 3rd, but he will be at the same age Pominville was for his 2nd), then I'll believe. Does anyone really think that happens though?

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Random thought: I don't think we will, but if we trade for Pacioretty and people on the culture/locker room ROR train like Vogl defend the move like Vogl tends to do, I will freak the out 

Same. It would make no sense

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, WildCard said:

 

If Nylander puts up a PPG like Pominville did in his 2nd season in the AHL (this will be Nylander's 3rd, but he will be at the same age Pominville was for his 2nd), then I'll believe. Does anyone really think that happens though?

This is wrong. You are out by a year.

Pominville was 20 to start his first AHL season, and turned 21 a month into that season.

Nylander is 20 to start this season and turns 21 in April.

He is a baby. And, so far, has mostly played like one.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

22 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Random thought: I don't think we will, but if we trade for Pacioretty and people on the culture/locker room ROR train like Vogl defend the move like Vogl tends to do, I will freak the (insert #### here) out 

In this new format you need to manually fill in the swear words with actual #### signs, as they are just blanked out now.  This will help guys like me to follow along, eh.  See in your post above I did it for you.  You are welcome.

This is a recording.  Thanks for making SabreSpace a better place.

Edited July 12, 2018 by N S

[WildCard]

Just now, dudacek said:

This is wrong. You are out by a year.

Pominville was 20 to start his first AHL season, and turned 21 a month into that season.

Nylander is 20 to start this season and turns 21 in April.

He is a baby. And, so far, has mostly played like one.

Again though, why are you comparing him to Pominville?

Let's compare him to his brother, who spent two seasons in the AHL, at the same age, and was drafted at the same spot

William: 
1st year: .86 ppg
2nd year: 1.18 ppg

Alex:
1st year: .43 ppg
2nd year: .53 ppg

Now you can say all you want that William is the better brother. And he very well may be. But not only did he blow Alex out of the water in both years, he significantly improved in his 2nd year too. What's crazier? William put up more points in FEWER games than Alex! 

I really see no reason to be optimistic about Alex outside of his WJC performance, and there have been plenty of players to dominate that tournament and never pan out in the NHL

[dudacek]

So because Alex was drafted higher than Jason, he gets two or three years to prove himself and Jason gets five or six?

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

So because Alex was drafted higher than Jason, he gets two or three years to prove himself and Jason gets five or six?

Are we going to act like higher draft picks don't have higher expectations?

Edited July 12, 2018 by WildCard

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

Are we going to act like higher draft picks don't have higher expectations?

Sure they do, but higher doesn’t equal quicker.

 

[Lanny]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Now you can say all you want that William is the better brother. And he very well may be. But not only did he blow Alex out of the water in both years, he significantly improved in his 2nd year too. What's crazier? William put up more points in FEWER games than Alex! 

I think that proves he isn't as good as William, not that he's garbage.

Alex had 14 points in last 19 games. 

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Sure they do, but higher doesn’t equal quicker.

How does it not? Expectations of higher draft picks are you will be here sooner and contribute more at your peak, no?

Just now, Lanny said:

I think that proves he isn't as good as William, not that he's garbage.

Alex had 14 points in last 19 games. 

A nice little stretch for him, which he then did nothing with in the playoffs when he was benched, correct?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Besides Risto & Reinhart, who we aren’t trading, and besides trading futures, do we have anything else to trade that will actually garner a player we need?

[dudacek]

Ryan Johansen was picked fourth overall.

He had 12 NHL points and 33 AHL points in his draft 3 year. Bust?

 

[TrueBlueGED]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

How does it not? Expectations of higher draft picks are you will be here sooner and contribute more at your peak, no?

Right. At the very least, someone drafted in the top-10 isn't supposed to need the same development timeline as someone drafted in the 5th round. 

[Randall Flagg]

My expectations are for Alex to play with intensity and full effort. I don't think he's met them for more than a couple games of his career at this point. 

I haven't even GOTTEN to points and goals, which he's also sorely disappointed with. 

Every single prospect Dudacek lists in these discussions either played hard or at some point started meeting/exceeding expectations, some by a lot. Alex looks universes away from glancing any possible expectation you could reasonably put on him. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[WildCard]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Ryan Johansen was picked fourth overall.

He had 12 NHL points and 33 AHL points in his draft 3 year. Bust?

 

In his 1st AHL year he had .83 ppg, at age 20. Nylander hasn't had his age 20 year yet, granted. But he hasn't come remotely close to that and he's had 2 years AHL experience. On the other hand, William already eclipsed that, twice. Do we think Alex hits .83 ppg this year? 

 

Edit: I commend your conviction, dudacek, but I just don't see a single reason to be remotely hopeful about this kid

Edited July 12, 2018 by WildCard

[Randall Flagg]

This "Extra time" and "relative to Alex" all of these prospects had also happened to show far more promising signs than the zero Alex has. 

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

My expectations are for Alex to play with intensity and full effort. I don't think he's met them for more than a couple games of his career at this point. 

I haven't even GOTTEN to points and goals, which he's also sorely disappointed with. 

Every single prospect Dudacek lists in these discussions either played hard or at some point started meeting/exceeding expectations, some by a lot. Alex looks universes away from glancing any possible expectation you could reasonably put on him. 

You're gonna be disappointed then

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

This "Extra time" and "relative to Alex" all of these prospects had also happened to show far more promising signs than the zero Alex has. 

Agreed

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

How does it not? Expectations of higher draft picks are you will be here sooner and contribute more at your peak, no?

A nice little stretch for him, which he then did nothing with in the playoffs when he was benched, correct?

To the first,  the second half is certainly correct and the first half tends to be. But I’m not aware of evidence that shows top 10 picks who don’t make it in their first two years, don’t make it period.

to the second, the Amerks as a whole sucked ### in the playoffs, none worse than Linus Ullmark. Not sure why the youngest player on the team bears the brunt of that.

[TrueBlueGED]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Ryan Johansen was picked fourth overall.

He had 12 NHL points and 33 AHL points in his draft 3 year. Bust?

 

No, but I'm willing to bet Alex doesn't score 30 goals in his draft 4 year. Of course Alex might turn it around, and I've been one of his biggest advocates...but it's hard to say anything other than his pro career to date has been a disaster. 

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

To the first,  the second half is certainly correct and the first half tends to be. But I’m not aware of evidence that shows top 10 picks who don’t make it in their first two years, don’t make it period.

to the second, the Amerks as a whole sucked ### in the playoffs, none worse than Linus Ullmark. Not sure why the youngest player on the team bears the brunt of that.

I mean there's a difference between not making it and not even having a pulse

True, they all did. But again he is supposed to be better than that. Not only wasn't he, but he was benched. Was anybody else benched?

[Brawndo]

 

[WildCard]

Just now, Brawndo said:

 

Somebody made this joke earlier, about Arizona taking on Hossa's contract. Believe it was actually you Brawndo

[dudacek]

I think I’m having a different discussion than you guys.

I agree Alex Nylander has been terribly disappointing and I don’t think he will make it in a way that justifies his draft status.

I just think the narrative around him would be a lot different had he played in Sweden in his D1 season and not got hurt in his D2.

I think he was overdrafted and should be being compared to guys like Kyrou and Thompson, rather than guys like Mittlestadt and Jost.

But he could still turn into Jason Zucker or Jason Pominville. It is too soon to declare him an outright bust.

Edited July 12, 2018 by dudacek

[Hoss]

5 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

This is the sort of deal we should be making.

I would very much like Vinnie Hinostroza.

For the next three offseasons we’d have $5.275M in dead cap space with Hossa. I have no interest in taking on more bad contracts over two years.

 

Also, do we think Chicago has immediate plans for the added space? Justin Faulk? Jeff Skinner? Rick Nash if he isn’t retiring?

Edited July 12, 2018 by Hoss

[Randall Flagg]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think I’m having a different discussion than you guys.

I agree Alex Nylander has been terribly disappointing and I don’t think he will make it in a way that justifies his draft status.

I just think the narrative around him would be a lot different had he played in Sweden in his D1 season and not got hurt in his D2.

I think he was overdrafted and should be being compared to guys like Kyrou and Thompson, rather than guys like Mittlestadt and Jost.

But he could still turn into Jason Zucker or Jason Pominville. It is too soon to declare him an outright bust.

I think you're underestimating the ability of posters here to analyze a situation.If he played like he has in Sweden and during this past year, the narrative would be the same. If he played differently when he played, the narrative would be different.

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I think you're underestimating the ability of posters here to analyze a situation.If he played like he has in Sweden and during this past year, the narrative would be the same. If he played differently when he played, the narrative would be different.

That’s exactly my point. Under different circumstances, he would have produced differently.

He looked like a different player his draft year than most of the following years, but he has shown glimpses of his good game - the 2017 WJC and the stint Lanny referred to at the end of this AHL regular season.

Edited July 12, 2018 by dudacek