RUSS BRANDON OUT

[Marvelo]

So Kim is dictator for life? What if she sucks? People should be put into positions because of their merits and accomplishments, not because they're related to the owner. Buffalo deserves better!

Edited May 2, 2018 by Marvelo

[That Aud Smell]

Well said. I'm not sure if if chauvinism or chivalry at work. I made a comment about Kim's role as president being essentially the same as Ted Black's and Russ Brandon's: sell the product. Because the comment involved a fridge, I guess, it was viewed as sexist. Of course it was..

.

You’ve made lotsa comments about Kim Pegula’s management roles. Stuff to the effect of choosing colours and picking out fabric swatches comes to mind.

 

You’ve also differentiated between Terry and her when it comes to the rights and privileges of being an owner.

 

I urge some honest self-reflection on the subject.

[Jsixspd]

That's great that management by family name and death worked out for the Reds, Wings, and Rams.  I'm not terribly up on the history of the Rams,  but both The Wings and the Reds already had championship lineage, and were established as quality successful franchises, with a winning 'culture' in place when Schott and Norris took over. 

In general, I think practical experience, education, training, and gravitas are preferable for high level management or executive posts vs grabbing a random person or family member from the street and hoping for the best.    Maybe I'm just old-fashioned?   

Edited May 2, 2018 by Jsixspd

[Georgia Blizzard]

Different president positions. Kim won't be doing anything Neely did, hopefully. She'll be designing the fridge schedule magnets. Homage to the late DeLuca!

 

As usual, pretty tone deaf and even hypocritical. A man lost his job and his family is probably in chaos. Don't worry -- be happy! How humane.

 

Yes, I celebrate when predators are caught and I have sympathy for their victims.  Make no mistake, there were victims here, there always are in sexual harassment cases.

[shrader]

Georgia Frontiere:  Opera singer / secretary who inherited the LA Rams from her (fifth!) husband and became chairwoman of the team.  3 NFC titles and one Super Bowl win.

 

Marge Schott:  Socialite who purchased the Cincinnati Reds because she was a fan.  Horrible person.  Became president and CEO of the team.  Won a World Series.

 

Marguerite Norris:  President and CEO of the Detroit Red Wings upon her father's passing.  Three first-place finishes and two Stanley Cups.

 

It's not like this is groundbreaking.  

 

What's the timeline on each of these?  The time from sale to presidency feels fast here with Buffalo, but I don't really have a good perspective on the typical timeline for these type of things.  That said, I have absolutely no problem with the idea that people can learn and grow in these positions over time.

[Eleven]

So Kim is dictator for life? What if she sucks? People should be put into positions because of their merits and accomplishments, not because they're related to the owner. Buffalo deserves better!

 

Unless you're talking about the one in North Korea, I don't see a Kim dictator for life here.

 

Also, she's not related to the owner.  That would be gross.  She is married to him, though.

 

Look at sports owners all over the world and tell me how many of them are uniquely qualified to run their teams.

 

What's the timeline on each of these?  The time from sale to presidency feels fast here with Buffalo, but I don't really have a good perspective on the typical timeline for these type of things.  That said, I have absolutely no problem with the idea that people can learn and grow in these positions over time.

 

Not sure which timeline you mean--time from ownership to "top job" (whether chairwoman or president or however denominated) in each case--none.  Each assumed the position immediately upon ownership.

 

Time from assuming position / ownership to title:

 

Schott:  5 years.

 

Frontiere:  2 years to make the Super Bowl, after she reorganized the entire front office on her own, but it took 20 years to win a Super Bowl.

 

Norris:  Immediately, I believe.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Eleven

[WildCard]

I just wanna know how involved RB really was in player/personnel decisions

[Eleven]

Unless you're talking about the one in North Korea, I don't see a Kim dictator for life here.

 

Also, she's not related to the owner.  That would be gross.  She is married to him, though.

 

Look at sports owners all over the world and tell me how many of them are uniquely qualified to run their teams.

 

 

Not sure which timeline you mean--time from ownership to "top job" (whether chairwoman or president or however denominated) in each case--none.  Each assumed the position immediately upon ownership.

 

Time from assuming position / ownership to title:

 

Schott:  5 years.

 

Frontiere:  2 years to make the Super Bowl, after she reorganized the entire front office on her own, but it took 20 years to win a Super Bowl.

 

Norris:  Immediately, I believe.

 

 

Also:  Any of you all ever hear of a guy named Kerry Bubolz?  

[shrader]

Not sure which timeline you mean--time from ownership to "top job" (whether chairwoman or president or however denominated) in each case--none.  Each assumed the position immediately upon ownership.

 

Time from assuming position / ownership to title:

 

Schott:  5 years.

 

Frontiere:  2 years to make the Super Bowl, after she reorganized the entire front office on her own, but it took 20 years to win a Super Bowl.

 

Norris:  Immediately, I believe.

 

I should have phrased it better, but you definitely answered the question.  Thanks.

[That Aud Smell]

Primarily addressing your response.  There's can be a world of difference between sexual harassment and engaging in a relationship with a subordinate.  If your assumption is that he pressed a subordinate to date him then I am in 100% agreement with the harassment application.  If, on the other hand, the subordinate made it known to him that she was interested in a relationship then he's only guilty of really bad judgment (and being a jackass to his wife).  Lots of us are guilty of really bad judgment and lots of us are aware of questionable ethical situations that we don't necessarily speak up about when it happens but will gladly pile on about once its in the public light. For example, I hear stories about past executive leaders at my company and some of the things that go on at the "executive retreat".  It's nauseating that people would act that way (and frankly, it's along the lines of the Russ Brandon situation).  Of course it's people bitching about former leaders and I always ask, if you were there, why didn't you say anything about it?  I mean, if it is that big of a deal now that they are done, why is it not that big of a deal when they weren't?  Of course the answer is, the desire to keep their job.  I understand that, but don't get on a freaking soapbox 8 months later once they are gone.  If it's wrong, it's wrong, and it says something about all of us who are aware of these kinds of things but won't speak up because we don't want to risk certain actions coming back at us.

 

Ultimately, for all of us, it doesn't matter though.  The kind of person Russ Brandon is or his actions aren't relevant to the result.  It's as if there is no closure for people unless they can adequately state what kind of person he is based on unproven information.

 

The harm Russ Brandon caused people was in his role as President of these organizations, his relationship with anyone did not cause anyone on here harm (as far as I know).  So, be happy he's gone, and let it go.  

 

I'm not sure I understand your point(s).

 

It matters to me that Russ Brandon is a proverbial POS. The kind of person he is, and the actions he's taken, are quite relevant to what I think of him and what I think of his role as president of my hometown teams.

 

I do not consider the information on which I rely to be unproven. Far from it. The existence of a formal internal investigation report only solidifies my belief in what I've heard and learned over the years.

 

I also think you fail to apprehend that there's no clean distinction between Russ Brandon the philandering, quid pro quo'ing with sales execs (or whomever)  human POS and Russ Brandon the team president. He's the same person in both settings -- spreading his unique brand of toxicity whither he goes.

 

I haven't let it go in the past. And now that he's got his comeuppance, you're not apt to see me let it go until I've had my fill of sweet, sweet schadenfreude. 

[Stoner]

You’ve made lotsa comments about Kim Pegula’s management roles. Stuff to the effect of choosing colours and picking out fabric swatches comes to mind.

 

You’ve also differentiated between Terry and her when it comes to the rights and privileges of being an owner.

 

I urge some honest self-reflection on the subject.

She WAS put in charge of redecorating and re-doing the lockerroom. I personally didn't make that assignment. In fact, I wouldn't have, because it had a very bad look to it.

 

To the second point, I am not the one who repeatedly said "I go one way to the business offices, and Terry goes to the team offices." Kim said that. Many times. As did Terry, I believe.

 

I'll get right on the self-reflection. I have a little group going with LTS. Would you like to make it a threesome?

[Eleven]

Calling twice, Kerry Bubolz?  Anyone?

[Stoner]

Yes, I celebrate when predators are caught and I have sympathy for their victims.  Make no mistake, there were victims here, there always are in sexual harassment cases.

No one has reliably reported this is as a sexual harassment case. Message board rumour-mongering is not a reliable source.

 

Look at sports owners all over the world and tell me how many of them are uniquely qualified to run their teams.

Which is the best argument for owners hiring competent people and getting out of the way. Imagine the advantage that would represent if a team tried it.

 

I still think president of (team) operations and president of business operations is being conflated here. Kim's not going to be Marge Schott.

 

The (extremely vile and sexist) differentiation was made yet again yesterday in the Pegulas' statement. Kim will be doing her thing on the business side and Terry will be overseeing the teams.

Calling twice, Kerry Bubolz?  Anyone?

Nope. We do have a Michael Hunt though.

[That Aud Smell]

For myself the concerns about Kim Pegula taking over all these posts has nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with experience and training (or lack of)   If she had an MBA from a heavy hitting Ivy League school, marketing or advertising degree or similar credentials,  or relevant experience, that would be great.  But she doesn't seem to have any special acumen or skills for the job, other than her last name.   

 

From her Wikipedia page - her experience is shown as high school cheerleader and bassoonist.   It's not clear what her major at Houghton was, or even if she completed school before leaving to work for Pegula (at that juncture she was a waitress).  And of course, her employment with Pegula had more to do with romantic leanings than qualifications - does anyone think her work performance for Pegula was evaluated as impartially , stringently, or as analytically as a regular Pegula employees' would be?    

 

I'll submit that fans are not apt to impose the same sort of criteria on male owners who assume the mantle of president.

 

I'll also note that there are a half-dozen implications above that just make me SMDH.

 

Kim is a 1991 graduate of Houghton. She majored in communications, evidently. I think you gotta do more than Wiki her to learn that, though.

 

Looks like you saved the best for last -- she's where she is because of "romantic leanings." Lord save us. Saints preserve us.

 

Here's a thought experiment: A large part of what Terry was attracted to in her were qualities, talents, and skills that will translate well to business administration. A human touch. An unwillingness to suffer fools. Honesty. Diligence. And so on.

 

Anyhoo. She's part owner of the team. And with that come all rights and privileges associated with that status. 

 

I have my own concerns over whether she's in over her head. But I'd feel the same way about Terry (more so in fact), and I used to think the same about Ralph. I also think she can't help but be an improvement over Brandon.

[WildCard]

Real quickly about to be the Patrick Kane thread 2.0. 

[That Aud Smell]

 "I go one way to the business offices, and Terry goes to the team offices." Kim said that. Many times. As did Terry, I believe.

 

I'll get right on the self-reflection. I have a little group going with LTS. Would you like to make it a threesome?

 

"He goes left to the hockey department and I go right to marketing, content, media, PR, all that stuff. So we found our groove and found the things that we were better at."

 

Or, as you put it, "business offices." She and Terry agree that she is better suited to running their teams' businesses than he is.

 

I won't chase my tail on this. Horses, water, and such.

[Georgia Blizzard]

No one has reliably reported this is as a sexual harassment case. Message board rumour-mongering is not a reliable source.

 

Which is the best argument for owners hiring competent people and getting out of the way. Imagine the advantage that would represent if a team tried it.

 

I still think president of (team) operations and president of business operations is being conflated here. Kim's not going to be Marge Schott.

 

The (extremely vile and sexist) differentiation was made yet again yesterday in the Pegulas' statement. Kim will be doing her thing on the business side and Terry will be overseeing the teams.

Nope. We do have a Michael Hunt though.

 

LOL, if you think Russ resigned for ONE consensual relationship with ONE subordinate you are naive beyond comprehension.  There is so much more to this and even the most ardent Brandon supporters admit that on this forum and TBD.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Georgia Blizzard

[That Aud Smell]

Real quickly about to be the Patrick Kane thread 2.0. 

 

I'll log off before that happens. We've been around this mulberry bush before.

[Eleven]

No one has reliably reported this is as a sexual harassment case. Message board rumour-mongering is not a reliable source.

 

Which is the best argument for owners hiring competent people and getting out of the way. Imagine the advantage that would represent if a team tried it.

 

I still think president of (team) operations and president of business operations is being conflated here. Kim's not going to be Marge Schott.

 

The (extremely vile and sexist) differentiation was made yet again yesterday in the Pegulas' statement. Kim will be doing her thing on the business side and Terry will be overseeing the teams.

Nope. We do have a Michael Hunt though.

 

You're so obtuse today that you're basically a straight line.

 

Kerry Bubolz is the president of the Vegas Golden Knights.  Darlings of the league.  Subject of the "Vegas is good enough to win the cup" thread on this very board.  With no experience running hockey teams.

 

The only differences in our situation are that (1) Kim is a woman and (2) Kim is married to the owner.

 

Please tell me which one makes her more unqualified than Mr. Bubolz.  (Others may feel free to participate, too.)

[That Aud Smell]

LOL, if you think Russ resigned for ONE consensual relationship with ONE subordinate you are naive beyond comprehension.  There is so much more to this and even the most ardent Brandon supporters admit that on this forum and TBD.

 

Stop. He might actually be the victim here. A victim of the Black Widow and her insatiable quest for power.

[darksabre]

Real quickly about to be the Patrick Kane thread 2.0. 

It's not surprising. They steamrolled over the only female who tried to weigh in so far because in 2018 the only perspective that matters is still a man's when it comes to topics like workplace power dynamics/abuse of power, relationships, harassment, etc.

 

So of course it's cast doubt on Kim Pegula o'clock. 

[Georgia Blizzard]

Stop. He might actually be the victim here. A victim of the Black Widow and her insatiable quest for power.

Are you Harvey Weinstein's lawyer ?

[Marvelo]

Eleven, on 02 May 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

Look at sports owners all over the world and tell me how many of them are uniquely qualified to run their teams.

 

 

 

Anyhoo. She's part owner of the team. And with that come all rights and privileges associated with that status. .

 

Sounds like trolls for the Pegula organizaiton; a slave mentality. Why wouldn't anyone want a person with a major background in sports management to be in the top job as president of two losing sports teams instead of a toy for wifey?

Edited May 2, 2018 by Marvelo

[That Aud Smell]

Kerry Bubolz is the president of the Vegas Golden Knights.  Darlings of the league.  Subject of the "Vegas is good enough to win the cup" thread on this very board.  With no experience running hockey teams.

 

The only differences in our situation are that (1) Kim is a woman and (2) Kim is married to the owner.

 

Please tell me which one makes her more unqualified than Mr. Bubolz.  (Others may feel free to participate, too.)

 

The two of them are about the same age. Here's what he has posted to his LinkedIn -- it's a varied and impressive career in sports management:

 

I joined the Golden Knights after spending 13 years with the National Basketball Association's Cleveland Cavaliers and Quicken Loans Arena organization. Since 2013, I was the franchise’s President of Business Operations, where I was responsible for the oversight of ticket and suite sales; corporate sponsorship revenue; broadcasting, marketing and communications; fan and community engagement; digital and social engagement; and box office operations. I also served as President and Alternate Governor for all franchise property teams owned by the Cavaliers Operating Company, including the Cleveland Monsters of the American Hockey League (AHL), the Canton Charge of the NBA Development League and the Cleveland Gladiators of the Arena Football League. 

 

Prior to my tenure in Cleveland, I enjoyed successful runs with multiple teams in various leagues around the country. I spent time as the Vice President of Sales for both the Carolina Hurricanes of the National Hockey League and Southwest Sports Group, which includes the Dallas Stars of the NHL and Texas Rangers of Major League Baseball. Before that, I held a variety of roles during a six-year run with the International Hockey League’s, Cleveland Lumberjacks, including: team President, Chief Operating Officer and Senior Vice President of Business Operations.

It's not surprising. They steamrolled over the only female who tried to weigh in so far because in 2018 the only perspective that matters is still a man's when it comes to topics like workplace power dynamics/abuse of power, relationships, harassment, etc.

 

So of course it's cast doubt on Kim Pegula o'clock. 

 

I think we're losing sight of who the real victim here might be.

[WildCard]

It's not surprising. They steamrolled over the only female who tried to weigh in so far because in 2018 the only perspective that matters is still a man's when it comes to topics like workplace power dynamics/abuse of power, relationships, harassment, etc.

 

So of course it's cast doubt on Kim Pegula o'clock. 

Sorry, but who is 'they' here?