RUSS BRANDON OUT

[Cityo'Rasmii]

If I own something, that I paid for out of my pocket (from marriage, or self made) then I don't care if people care That I meddle.

I work at a place where administration meddles far beyond what they should do, and they are not experts at all in what we do. But at the end of the day, I have to go along with it, because I'm in a lower tier than them.

 

We can gripe all we want, but they spent the multi million of dollars on their "toy" so they can do whatever they please.

You said it, wyld - reality!  Deal with it!

[Huckleberry]

If I own something, that I paid for out of my pocket (from marriage, or self made) then I don't care if people care That I meddle.

I work at a place where administration meddles far beyond what they should do, and they are not experts at all in what we do. But at the end of the day, I have to go along with it, because I'm in a lower tier than them.

 

We can gripe all we want, but they spent the multi million of dollars on their "toy" so they can do whatever they please.

 

Well I'll say this, I completely agree.

But if a manager whom did a lot of great things, to keep the team in the buffalo area gets sacked the reason behind it must be good.

 

The NFL looked into it, liked the way things were handled, not saying the NFL is a shining beacon of morality, but they have had some things go bad on this subject.

And the cheerleader thing only making it worse , they can't deal with another one.

[That Aud Smell]

Finance people were stunned when they saw the books upon commencement of the bidding process.

Bread and Circuses were his bread and butter. The Owens signing was quintessential Brandon era.

[nfreeman]

Tim Graham and Jerry Sullivan had a pretty good discussion of the RB situation on TG's podcast a few days ago (although you'll need to skip a solid 30 minutes of them discussing the NBA playoffs to get to it).  I've criticized the local media a fair amount over the years, but I thought TG's analysis was quite good (Sully less so but still somewhat interesting).

[That Aud Smell]

^

 

I have my issues with the guy, but there is no doubting that Tim Graham is a very smart, sharp guy. 

 

I'm listening to it now (?) -- is this the show where Graham called in while he was driving and someone else hosted (Bucky)? Graham's takes are very sensible.

[nfreeman]

^

 

I have my issues with the guy, but there is no doubting that Tim Graham is a very smart, sharp guy.

 

I'm listening to it now (?) -- is this the show where Graham called in while he was driving and someone else hosted (Bucky)? Graham's takes are very sensible.

No — not the episode that Bucky hosted — the one I was referring to was the following one.

[That Aud Smell]

No — not the episode that Bucky hosted — the one I was referring to was the following one.

 

Got it.

 

Hearing some of Graham's thoughts on how Brandon ingratiated himself to the Pegulas. It sounds about right. I don't think I've heard reference to how Brandon schooled Rex on how to shmooze Terry (to include the red wine talk). That, to me, is *classic* Wormtongue sh1t.

[sabills]

So I don't know if this came out elsewhere, and I can't completely vouch for the veracity of the claim, but I heard from a friend who has no interest in sports a story about what happened with Brandon. The person telling me this seemed to think it was common knowledge, but they heard it from someone who's somehow works for the Bills/Pegulas in a marketing position. 

 

Basically, according to this person, Brandon was having an affair with someone who worked for him. The Pegulas found out and told him to stop. He said he would. They found out he didn't, he lied about it, and they let him go.

 

If that's true, and again I don't know for sure, but it would jive with some of the stuff we've heard and with the NFL not pursuing it any further, then its skeevy, but not as bad as I might have imagined. Still, any time there are things between employees and employers, especially those so high up in an organization, there can be pressures, either real or perceived. And lying about it to your boss is no good.

[That Aud Smell]

^

 

This is largely consistent with part of what I've heard. That it came out that he was running around on his wife with someone who works for PSE, that this affair was far from the first he'd had within the Bills organization, the Pegulas said knock it off, he said he would do so, they later discovered he had not stopped, and then he baldly lied about having complied with the initial command.

 

Brandon's philandering was so pervasive that it became a running (bad) joke around town. Looks as though the Pegulas decided, in no small part, that he was tarnishing their brand.

[nfreeman]

FWIW, Graham stated pretty directly (although without providing any details) that in addition to the sexual misconduct occurrences, there were financial improprieties as well.

[Doohicksie]

FWIW, Graham stated pretty directly (although without providing any details) that in addition to the sexual misconduct occurrences, there were financial improprieties as well.

 

My wife teaches.  It's actually pretty hard to get fired from the school district, but those two things (sexual misconduct, financial improprieties) will get you walked out the door immediately.

[Taro T]

Questions for all the "Russ Brandon kept the Bills in Buffalo" apologists. If the people of WNY & the NP won't support a losing effort w/out being fooled by marketers into supporting that product, how the #### did the Sabres maintain a backlog of potential STHers through the longest and worst stretch of hockey BY FAR in their history w/out the Boy Genius <_< ever since Black Sunday?

 

Yet, once the Savior took over the Sabres is when that waiting list went away and the team started playing in front of more empty seats than paying customers?

 

The "good" teams in that stretch were led by guys that were generally loathed (Roy, Stafford, Connolly) or perceived to be overrated (Miller, Myers, Vanek, Pominville, etc) and the bad teams literally had players calling out the fans for preferring more losses to wins. But still the tickets were bought.

 

If the Sabres didn't need his overrated arse, maybe, just maybe, the Bills didn't either?

Edited May 14, 2018 by Taro T

[SwampD]

Questions for all the "Russ Brandon kept the Bills in Buffalo" apologists. If the people of WNY & the NP won't support a losing effort w/out being fooled by marketers into supporting that product, how the #### did the Sabres maintain a backlog of potential STHers through the longest and worst stretch of hockey BY FAR in their history w/out the Boy Genius <_< ever since Black Sunday?

 

Yet, once the Savior took over the Sabres is when that waiting list went away and the team started playing in front of more empty seats than paying customers?

 

The "good" teams in that stretch were led by guys that were generally loathed (Roy, Stafford, Connolly) or perceived to be overrated (Miller, Myers, Vanek, Pominville, etc) and the bad teams literally had players calling out the fans for preferring more losses to wins. But still the tickets were bought.

 

If the Sabres didn't need his overrated arse, maybe, just maybe, the Bills didn't either?

Maybe the "Keep the Bills in Buffalo" was the marketing ploy to get people to keep buying tickets.

Edited May 14, 2018 by SwampD

[nfreeman]

Questions for all the "Russ Brandon kept the Bills in Buffalo" apologists. If the people of WNY & the NP won't support a losing effort w/out being fooled by marketers into supporting that product, how the #### did the Sabres maintain a backlog of potential STHers through the longest and worst stretch of hockey BY FAR in their history w/out the Boy Genius <_< ever since Black Sunday?

 

Yet, once the Savior took over the Sabres is when that waiting list went away and the team started playing in front of more empty seats than paying customers?

 

The "good" teams in that stretch were led by guys that were generally loathed (Roy, Stafford, Connolly) or perceived to be overrated (Miller, Myers, Vanek, Pominville, etc) and the bad teams literally had players calling out the fans for preferring more losses to wins. But still the tickets were bought.

 

If the Sabres didn't need his overrated arse, maybe, just maybe, the Bills didn't either?

 

Boom!

 

Also worth noting in this regard:  Sabres STs cost quite a bit more than Bills STs.

[shrader]

^

 

This is largely consistent with part of what I've heard. That it came out that he was running around on his wife with someone who works for PSE, that this affair was far from the first he'd had within the Bills organization, the Pegulas said knock it off, he said he would do so, they later discovered he had not stopped, and then he baldly lied about having complied with the initial command.

 

Brandon's philandering was so pervasive that it became a running (bad) joke around town. Looks as though the Pegulas decided, in no small part, that he was tarnishing their brand.

 

I read all of this and it sounds like ultimately it's insubordination that got him the boot as opposed to all of the rest.  That will get you every single time.

 

Boom!

 

Also worth noting in this regard:  Sabres STs cost quite a bit more than Bills STs.

 

And you know exactly what you're getting with football.  You get 8 games, always on a sunday (pretty much always), scattered across 3 months.  Hockey is so much more of a time commitment and the games can be any day.  It's a whole different sales pitch.  I've always wondered how the average non-corporation season ticket holder manages to make it work.  I had enough trouble keeping up with the time commitments of the much shorter college hockey season ticket package.

[sabills]

FWIW, Graham stated pretty directly (although without providing any details) that in addition to the sexual misconduct occurrences, there were financial improprieties as well.

Missed that one. What a dink.

[Iron Crotch]

 

And you know exactly what you're getting with football.  You get 8 games, always on a sunday (pretty much always), scattered across 3 months.  Hockey is so much more of a time commitment and the games can be any day.  It's a whole different sales pitch.  I've always wondered how the average non-corporation season ticket holder manages to make it work.  I had enough trouble keeping up with the time commitments of the much shorter college hockey season ticket package.

 

Exactly. The NFL is an always has been a regional sport due to a limited number of games that are almost always played on weekends. I know many fans of various organizations who don't even live in the city of the team they support... they just fly back into town for games (selling some tickets as necessary). There is nothing "genius" about recognizing that marketing efforts need to be regionalized. That's obvious to any marketing strategist with a pulse. Moving games to Toronto wasn't innovative... that's been done by many teams prior (e.g., Green Bay playing games in Milwaukee back in the day). Having your sales staff forge relationships with regional businesses? That's just common sense.

 

Hockey is different since the draw must predominantly be from local fans due to weeknight games. In hockey you can guard against a teams on-ice up's and down's by building up the non-hockey arena experience. The latter is where I think Buffalo is light years behind other markets. Ideally, you should be trying to sell a fun entertainment experience that isn't entirely dependent on the team winning games... you want people to enjoy the experience even with a loss. Other teams have done a masterful job of this (e.g., Nashville)... Buffalo still has a long way to go IMHO.

[tom webster]

Questions for all the "Russ Brandon kept the Bills in Buffalo" apologists. If the people of WNY & the NP won't support a losing effort w/out being fooled by marketers into supporting that product, how the #### did the Sabres maintain a backlog of potential STHers through the longest and worst stretch of hockey BY FAR in their history w/out the Boy Genius <_< ever since Black Sunday?

 

Yet, once the Savior took over the Sabres is when that waiting list went away and the team started playing in front of more empty seats than paying customers?

 

The "good" teams in that stretch were led by guys that were generally loathed (Roy, Stafford, Connolly) or perceived to be overrated (Miller, Myers, Vanek, Pominville, etc) and the bad teams literally had players calling out the fans for preferring more losses to wins. But still the tickets were bought.

 

If the Sabres didn't need his overrated arse, maybe, just maybe, the Bills didn't either?

First off,

You know the season ticket waiting list was a sham. 10,000 people on the list but they still could not regularly sell out? Anyway, RB success with the Bills and their staying in Buffalo had little to do with attendance. The NFL could care less about the ticket buying public. That said, anyone that sat through 18,000 fans in a 80,000 seat stadium knows that filling that stadium is not a given. It was the multitude of revenue streams that Brandon was able to cultivate in this area and the progressive ideas that made the team a worthwhile investment to more then a few.

The Sabres problems with their ticket buying public are more complex then I feel comfortable discussing here but I am confident that some of the ideas RB had for the arena experience would have put Buffalo in the forefront of the changes I think you will see nationwide as arenas and stadiums evolve into the next generation. Attendance issues are not just a Buffalo thing.

[Taro T]

First off,

You know the season ticket waiting list was a sham. 10,000 people on the list but they still could not regularly sell out? Anyway, RB success with the Bills and their staying in Buffalo had little to do with attendance. The NFL could care less about the ticket buying public. That said, anyone that sat through 18,000 fans in a 80,000 seat stadium knows that filling that stadium is not a given. It was the multitude of revenue streams that Brandon was able to cultivate in this area and the progressive ideas that made the team a worthwhile investment to more then a few.

The Sabres problems with their ticket buying public are more complex then I feel comfortable discussing here but I am confident that some of the ideas RB had for the arena experience would have put Buffalo in the forefront of the changes I think you will see nationwide as arenas and stadiums evolve into the next generation. Attendance issues are not just a Buffalo thing.

1st off, apologies for use of the term "apologists." It was kind of cheap & probably would've been changed to something less standoffish if the OP hadn't been quoted so quickly. My bad.

 

They weren't regularly selling out prior to tanking? They most certainly were, unless we have vastly different definitions of the term "regularly" & they still had much more packed arenas under Ted Black's reign than under Russ Brandon's reign.

 

Agree that the NFL doesn't give a rat's bippy about the common fans and Brandon fit right in with that. Will grant that he did a masterful job selling the suites back ~'98. But he never should have been promoted above that role.

 

The 18,000 seat days haven't been seen in these parts since the '80's when the landscape was much different. Those were teams that went 2-14 a couple of years after Wilson essentially ran Chuck Knox out of town. The NFL wasn't the be all, end all sports behemoth it turned into under ESPN's ascendency and Tagliabue's watch. It was big, but it wasn't far and away king in this country. There is no way we would ever see that poor of a turnout again. In the '70's there weren't ex-pats flying & driving in on weekends to catch the game. There are today & that's because of Kelly and crew and not due to excellent marketing slogans like "lead the charge" & "feel the rush."

 

Speaking of regularly having a lack of sellouts, pretty sure Russ didn't sellout Rich Stadium several times throughout his tenure. Russ was excellent at marketing himself. Not so sure about the other aspects of the position.

 

Looks like we'll never know what improvements to the MMArena experience Russ had in mind. Guess 2+ years wasn't long enough to get the ball rolling.

 

And after the botched WJC fiasco of this past season, truly doubt we get that showcase back anywhere close to as soon as we got it this time. Thanks, Russ.

[tom webster]

1st off, apologies for use of the term "apologists." It was kind of cheap & probably would've been changed to something less standoffish if the OP hadn't been quoted so quickly. My bad.

 

They weren't regularly selling out prior to tanking? They most certainly were, unless we have vastly different definitions of the term "regularly" & they still had much more packed arenas under Ted Black's reign than under Russ Brandon's reign.

 

Agree that the NFL doesn't give a rat's bippy about the common fans and Brandon fit right in with that. Will grant that he did a masterful job selling the suites back ~'98. But he never should have been promoted above that role.

 

The 18,000 seat days haven't been seen in these parts since the '80's when the landscape was much different. Those were teams that went 2-14 a couple of years after Wilson essentially ran Chuck Knox out of town. The NFL wasn't the be all, end all sports behemoth it turned into under ESPN's ascendency and Tagliabue's watch. It was big, but it wasn't far and away king in this country. There is no way we would ever see that poor of a turnout again. In the '70's there weren't ex-pats flying & driving in on weekends to catch the game. There are today & that's because of Kelly and crew and not due to excellent marketing slogans like "lead the charge" & "feel the rush."

 

Speaking of regularly having a lack of sellouts, pretty sure Russ didn't sellout Rich Stadium several times throughout his tenure. Russ was excellent at marketing himself. Not so sure about the other aspects of the position.

 

Looks like we'll never know what improvements to the MMArena experience Russ had in mind. Guess 2+ years wasn't long enough to get the ball rolling.

 

And after the botched WJC fiasco of this past season, truly doubt we get that showcase back anywhere close to as soon as we got it this time. Thanks, Russ.

Look forward to having this conversation someday over a few beverages, hopefully as a topic right around the sixth drink shortly after discussing whether Dahlin really was better then Potvin, whether Eichel is the conversation as the third or fourth best Sabres ever and whether Pat Kane was the best trade deadline pick up ever.

[Taro T]

Look forward to having this conversation someday over a few beverages, hopefully as a topic right around the sixth drink shortly after discussing whether Dahlin really was better then Potvin, whether Eichel is the conversation as the third or fourth best Sabres ever and whether Pat Kane was the best trade deadline pick up ever.

Probably a much better venue for this discussion. :beer:

[Stoner]

FWIW, Graham stated pretty directly (although without providing any details) that in addition to the sexual misconduct occurrences, there were financial improprieties as well.

Is having an affair "sexual misconduct"?

[LGR4GM]

Is having an affair "sexual misconduct"?

If it isn't disclosed to HR and you are that person's superior in the org, then yes. 

[Stoner]

If it isn't disclosed to HR and you are that person's superior in the org, then yes. 

I'm thinking in a more legalistic way. HR departments don't write laws.

[LGR4GM]

I'm thinking in a more legalistic way. HR departments don't write laws.

So your actual question is simply, is it illegal to have an affair? 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Skurk Liger