Toronto Roster vs Buffalo Roster - Are we closer?

[Randall Flagg]

Casey Mittelstadt?

Brendon Guhle?

 

I’d argue that if Pilut can play, our defense with Risto Scandella, Dahlin, McCabe, Guhle and Pilut/Bogo/Nelson is likely better then the group inTor.

That's a big claim. As bad as Toronto's defense has looked, and with all the shade you throw at Andersen, they were still 3rd in the division and 4th in the east in goals allowed. We were third last in the league, and a full goal per game against worse than they were.

 

Adding in another Antipin and a rookie Dahlin suddenly makes that indistinguishable? I'd argue that there's a little homerism going on here.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[PerreaultForever]

I agree that the D has the POTENTIAL to be better than theirs, but we are not close in the forward department. Not yet. 

 

and they have a goalie, all we have is a hope. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

That's a big claim. As bad as Toronto's defense has looked, and with all the shade you throw at Andersen, they were still 3rd in the division and 4th in the east in goals allowed. We were third last in the league, and a full goal per game against worse than they were.

 

Adding in another Antipin and a rookie Dahlin suddenly makes that indistinguishable? I'd argue that there's a little homerism going on here.

Gardiner and Rielly are their top 2 D  Both excellent puck movers and point creators, but not exactly good defensemen in their own zone.  Rielly somehow managed to be a -4 this season

 

Their next 4 D in terms of games played were Hainsey (23 pts), Zaitsev (13 pts), Borgman (11 pts in 48 gms), Polak (12 pts in 54 gms).  Their 7th and 8th guys were McDermott (13 pts in 37 gms) and Carrick (12 pts in 48 gms).

 

Personally I'll take Risto (41pts), Dahlin, McCabe (12pts) and Scandella (22pts) over Toronto's top 4.  Also I'll take Guhle's (5pts in 18 gms) potential over any of the remaining 4 D on Toronto's roster. 

 

I don't think this homerism.  I think it is a reasonable observation. 

 

the biggest advantages Tor's D has is their forwards and possession time.  Hard for the other team to score when bottled up in their own zone. 

[Huckleberry]

We will always be the better team  :P

[LTS]

Personally, I'm convinced Toronto is that much better off because they just about doubled our win total this year, and were closer to doubling our point total than we were to our first post-tank season :P

 

They had success in the regular season, they still got bounced in the first round.  They are about to lose some players to free agency and they finally have to pay up on their stars.  Let's see how they perform next year.  Given that Colorado went from worse than the Sabres last year to being in the playoffs (granted in a weaker division) shows the kind of changes that can occur in a single season.

 

Given that Edmonton went from "well on their way to the Stanley Cup" to "Holy hell what's rotten around here" in one season also shows how tenuous these things are.

 

They are all teams that are on the brink of becoming perennial playoff contenders, but they aren't there yet.

[Marions Piazza]

I think Dahlin gets us a little closer, but still not quite there.  I would like to see what else JB has in mind for the summer.  He said that there will be changes and that Eichel was the only one off the trade block.  Does the future addition of Dahlin change the math or does JB still make some big changes?

 

As mentioned by several other psots, we need wingers badly and solid goal tending.  I am not sold on Ullmark being as good as Anderson.

 

i think in 3 years, the Sabres-Leafs rivalry will be fun and we should see a playoff series, but, not before that

[jsb]

They had success in the regular season, they still got bounced in the first round.  

By a very good Boston team that was the hottest team in the league at the end of the year. That's still an up and coming team that I hope we can field a team that can compete with them. It would be nothing short of awesome to get this rivalry stirred up again. Plus they are a major rival of our team but I'm not sure we're on the same level for them. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think Dahlin gets us a little closer, but still not quite there. I would like to see what else JB has in mind for the summer. He said that there will be changes and that Eichel was the only one off the trade block. Does the future addition of Dahlin change the math or does JB still make some big changes?

 

As mentioned by several other psots, we need wingers badly and solid goal tending. I am not sold on Ullmark being as good as Anderson.

 

i think in 3 years, the Sabres-Leafs rivalry will be fun and we should see a playoff series, but, not before that

Where Dahlin changes the math is that Risto isn’t on the trade block; if he ever was. He, along with Jack, Sam, Casey and now Rasmus D are the core/studs of the foundation. Long term Risto can now be properly sloted as the anchor of the second pairing.

 

You are right we need wingers, but that is hopefully coming. Pu, Olofsson, Nylander should begin to fill out those needs over the next couple of years.

Edited May 2, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[bob_sauve28]

Don't expect a lot from Gule and Mittelstadt. We still desperately need wingers across the board, a goalie, and a bottom 6 entirely 

No? I've already moved him into the GREAT category. 

 

JVR is a UFA, right? So they lose him 

Where Dahlin changes the math is that Risto isn’t on the trade block; if he ever was. He, along with Jack, Sam, Casey and now Rasmus D are the core/studs of the foundation. Long term Risto can now be properly sloted as the anchor of the second pairing.

 

You are right we need wingers, but that is hopefully coming. Pu, Olofsson, Nylander should begin to fill out those needs over the next couple of years.

Bailey and Baptist also

[Weave]

Baptiste is almost outof chances to make the team. He was scratched in the Amerks playoffs. And Nylander had a highly reduced role.

 

Anyone thinking those guys moving up gets us closer to Toronto’s level is way overvaluing these guys.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I think it's a bit silly to assume that in a "broken locker room" adding an 18 year old to the mix is going to change that culture, if anything, players may resent a young pup who hasn't earned anything stepping in as a "star" in that vein, no, unless we have significant changes, one player does not change us enough to be compared to a playoff team.

[WildCard]

I think it's a bit silly to assume that in a "broken locker room" adding an 18 year old to the mix is going to change that culture, if anything, players may resent a young pup who hasn't earned anything stepping in as a "star" in that vein, no, unless we have significant changes, one player does not change us enough to be compared to a playoff team.

I think it gives the players already on the roster hope and confidence that we'll be much better

Edited May 2, 2018 by WildCard

[Sabres Fan in NS]

It's a bit early to say one way, or the other, but Toronto played better last season and made the playoffs and the Sabres didn't.

 

That said ...

 

I would rather have Eich on my team than any Leaf player.

 

I would rather have ROR on my team than any Leaf player, even Austin.

 

I would rather have Dahlin on my team than any Leaf player (I assume he will be drafted by the Sabres at #1).

[GASabresIUFAN]

I dug deeper into the Tor lineup and 1 thing really jumped out at me about their forward group and that is the amount of finishers on their roster. Tor has 4 key forwards who scored more goals then the helped to create. JVR had the largest differential at 38g to only 18a, but Kadri, Matthews and Marleau also finished with more goals then assists. Brown finished even. Nylander, Marner and Hyman are their key playmakers statistically.

 

The only key Sabre with more goals then assists was Kane and he was traded away. Reinhart was even at 25g 25a.

 

If the Sabres really want to close the gap, Jbot needs to find some guys who can score from the wing. This fact is one of he reasons I think Olofsson has a legit shot at making the team. He is a goal scorer pure and simple.

 

NS, I’m sorry but I’d rather have Matthews then ROR. ROR over Kadri is arguable, but Kadri is a scorer and we are desperate for those kind of players. Marner and Nylander play wing, so that really isn’t a valid comparison. Wouldn’t you take Nylander or Marner over Reinhart?

 

I do agree, I like Risto and Dahlin over Gardiner and Rielly.

Edited May 2, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

I think it shows that the top of our roster is close to what Toronto has. However the gap is biggest outside the top 5 player.

I can't live in that world anymore. I need results. The Sabres are God awful. Until the on ice results match the hype, I'll maintain my opinion.

Edited May 2, 2018 by inkman

[GASabresIUFAN]

I can't live in that world anymore. I need results. The Sabres are God ###### awful. Until the on ice results match the hype, I'll maintain my opinion.

No question we need to see results, but it's good to know where are gaps are relative to one of tops competitors. Goaltending, finishing and forward depth are glaring deficiencies. However we need to start somewhere in closing the gap. Defense and top forwards are great places to start.

[Randall Flagg]

Gardiner and Rielly are their top 2 D  Both excellent puck movers and point creators, but not exactly good defensemen in their own zone.  Rielly somehow managed to be a -4 this season

 

Their next 4 D in terms of games played were Hainsey (23 pts), Zaitsev (13 pts), Borgman (11 pts in 48 gms), Polak (12 pts in 54 gms).  Their 7th and 8th guys were McDermott (13 pts in 37 gms) and Carrick (12 pts in 48 gms).

 

Personally I'll take Risto (41pts), Dahlin, McCabe (12pts) and Scandella (22pts) over Toronto's top 4.  Also I'll take Guhle's (5pts in 18 gms) potential over any of the remaining 4 D on Toronto's roster. 

 

I don't think this homerism.  I think it is a reasonable observation. 

 

the biggest advantages Tor's D has is their forwards and possession time.  Hard for the other team to score when bottled up in their own zone. 

We just got out of the second or third ugliest defensive season I've ever seen. When Dahlin is a vet and we've made more roster moves, I can see it. I can't right now. 

 

A full, entire, goal per game. 80 goals on the season.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[GASabresIUFAN]

We just got out of the second or third ugliest defensive season I've ever seen. When Dahlin is a vet and we've made more roster moves, I can see it. I can't right now. 

A full, entire, goal per game. 80 goals on the season.

These things turn around. Gardiner and Reilly were the top 2 D when Tor stunk and they are their top D now. Look at Colorado. Every media pre-season preview said they had they worst D group in the NHL.

 

There is so much more to goals against then the D. Goaltending. Ours stunk. How many of those 80 goals could have been prevented by better goalies 30? 40? More? How many would have been prevented by our forwards keeping possession of the puck?

 

Ask yourself would you trade Risto for Rielly straight up? What about McCabe for Carrick? How about Scandella for Hainsey? How good would our D look playing with Toronto’s 4 lines of forwards compared to our 1.5?

I’m not absolving our guys from responsibility for some bad play. I apportion blame for those 80 goals 1/3 each to forward play/goaltending/lack of D depth.

 

Ultimately it comes down to depth. Jbot’s job this summer is to fix the depth of this organization. Dahlin and Mittelstadt are two huge upgrades. Guhle and Pilut may be as well. Ow Jbot has to find a goaltender and some help on the wing beyond ERod and Reinhart.

[MattPie]

Buffalo will have the better roster when they're ahead of Toronto for a number of games in the standings, or ahead in games in a series, and not a moment before. Fool me once, shame on you Sabres; fool me twice... you can't get fooled again!

[LikeEich]

Toronto has the upper hand in roster depth, as well as organizational depth. It's not even close really on both fronts. That being said as stated ^, I believe our core is better and it will take 2-3 years to build the depth up, but we win a cup before the leafs.

Edited May 2, 2018 by LikeEich

[dudacek]

Baptiste is almost outof chances to make the team. He was scratched in the Amerks playoffs. And Nylander had a highly reduced role.

Anyone thinking those guys moving up gets us closer to Toronto’s level is way overvaluing these guys.

Baptiste actually got a regular shift in Rochester during the playoffs, and for all intents and purposes made the team at the end of this year. At the moment he is somewhere around 10-12 on the forward depth chart and I would be surprised if he’s not among our 14 forwards to start next year.

I believe you’re thinking of Fasching.

[Weave]

Baptiste actually got a regular shift in Rochester during the playoffs, and for all intents and purposes made the team at the end of this year. At the moment he is somewhere around 10-12 on the forward depth chart and I would be surprised if he’s not among our 14 forwards to start next year.

I believe you’re thinking of Fasching.

 

Yeah, I had the wrong RW that everyone lists, but never makes the step up.  It was Fasching that sat.

 

They've been interchangeable in convo for so long.

Edited May 2, 2018 by We've

[PerreaultForever]

I think it's a bit silly to assume that in a "broken locker room" adding an 18 year old to the mix is going to change that culture, if anything, players may resent a young pup who hasn't earned anything stepping in as a "star" in that vein, no, unless we have significant changes, one player does not change us enough to be compared to a playoff team.

Exactly. If we don't overhaul it and change the culture, he'll catch the same "disease".