Housley Should Have Until End of December

[Brawndo]

 

40 minutes ago, ... said:

This guys has it correct with the idea of hiring Quenneville.  A lot of you think it's as easy as ordering a new coach from Amazon.

 

One small caveat. 

Pegula by all accounts was willing to open the checkbook for Babcock. 

If Botterill and Pegula agree that Quenneville is the answer, I imagine he does the same thing for him. 

[LTS]

The savior coach is a myth.  It's what people hang on to instead of facing reality.

The team needs more talent.  It will get more talent.  I don't mind Phil as a coach.  I guess I have more faith than others.  I don't need a blowhard.  The team has improved this year and I don't think that's just because of the players.  I see the same players making better passes and executing the game plan better than they did last year.  I don't put that on the GM.

 

 

[Kruppstahl]

We need a vote of confidence around here for Phil Housley.

I think most have finally turned on him.  

The frustrating part is that we are not going to make any interesting trade this season to improve the team, nor is Phil going to get fired, IMO.

So what is going to change and what will make it change? 

 

 

[Eleven]

47 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

We need a vote of confidence around here for Phil Housley.

I think most have finally turned on him.  

The frustrating part is that we are not going to make any interesting trade this season to improve the team, nor is Phil going to get fired, IMO.

So what is going to change and what will make it change? 

 

 

There is no interesting trade to make, unless it involves a draft pick.

Patience.  Just patience.  Rochester is stocked, Ullmark is learning (and hooked on a feelin' is right behind him) and it's not about this year.  I think everyone got weird after/during the ten game streak.  Settle down.  This is about a Cup run in 2021, when I'm dead and Taro finally learns to use his toaster oven.

[Thorner]

12 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Phil. Thought that would be obvious. But in the light of day (almost) I'm of a mind that a GM gets one coaching hire. So maybe if Terry's mad about Phil, the discussion is about Jason too. (I have no idea if Terry is mad; I kind of doubt it. He's had plenty of Kool Aid along with the rest of the fan bois, I'm sure.)

Shoudn't it be one coaching fire? If they only get one hire, GMs would always be a package deal with their coaches. 

[Eleven]

12 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Phil. Thought that would be obvious. But in the light of day (almost) I'm of a mind that a GM gets one coaching hire. So maybe if Terry's mad about Phil, the discussion is about Jason too. (I have no idea if Terry is mad; I kind of doubt it. He's had plenty of Kool Aid along with the rest of the fan bois, I'm sure.)

Well, someone's mind sure has changed over the years. 

[Hoss]

11 hours ago, Eleven said:

With the possible exception of the innovation of the K-Gun (I'm not sure how much was Levy and how much was Marchibroda), absolutely.

That was all former Bonnie Marchibroda from what I hear.

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

That was all former Bonnie Marchibroda from what I hear.

HUh?

[Pimlach]

Phil had a lot of fans on November, started changing in December, now fans are calling for his head in mid-Jan. 

 

I dont one like the power play and the inconsistency in effort. .Phil needs to motivate them or else.  

[Brennan Huff]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

HUh?

Ted marchibroda, st. Bona alum and former Buffalo Bills offensive coordinator 

[SDS]

13 hours ago, Eleven said:

With the possible exception of the innovation of the K-Gun (I'm not sure how much was Levy and how much was Marchibroda), absolutely.

That was Kelly and Ted. Kelly had a nice, 2-minute drive one game and when he trotted off and told Ted how comfortable he was in that setting. Ted went with it. Marv hated it. 

[Stoner]

35 minutes ago, SDS said:

That was Kelly and Ted. Kelly had a nice, 2-minute drive one game and when he trotted off and told Ted how comfortable he was in that setting. Ted went with it. Marv hated it. 

For some reason, I thought the seeds of it were in the Browns playoff game in the '89 season. But I just read it wasn't used until toward the end of '90 season, so maybe not.

[Brawndo]

15 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

For some reason, I thought the seeds of it were in the Browns playoff game in the '89 season. But I just read it wasn't used until toward the end of '90 season, so maybe not.

Ted reviewed when the offense was the most successful during games after the 1989 Season and sure enough it was during the two minute drill and the K Gun was born. 

A home game versus Philadelphia in December was the first time it was used, they won that game and  Randall Cunningham completed a 94 yard TD Pass for Philly. It was impressive day by both offensives. 

[TrueBlueGED]

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

One small caveat. 

Pegula by all accounts was willing to open the checkbook for Babcock. 

If Botterill and Pegula agree that Quenneville is the answer, I imagine he does the same thing for him. 

It really is hard to believe anyone can have observed the Pegulas' ownership of both franchises and still even muse that money would be a barrier to action. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So, 

2025 ...

[nfreeman]

On 1/15/2019 at 10:27 AM, LTS said:

The savior coach is a myth.  It's what people hang on to instead of facing reality.

The team needs more talent.  It will get more talent.  I don't mind Phil as a coach.  I guess I have more faith than others.  I don't need a blowhard.  The team has improved this year and I don't think that's just because of the players.  I see the same players making better passes and executing the game plan better than they did last year.  I don't put that on the GM.

I too oppose canning Howie.

I don't think the coach exists who could squeeze materially better scoring out of the Sabres' bottom 9 forwards. 

I think the D is greatly improved under Howie, as are most of the Sabres' young players.

I think a franchise that changes coaches every couple of years is a bush-league franchise.

I think JB has his work cut out for him this offseason to improve the forward group.

Once more, with feeling:  this is why you don't tank -- when you hit bottom, you usually stay there.

[...]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Once more, with feeling:  this is why you don't tank -- when you hit bottom, you usually stay there.

While I like your post, this here is a can of worms.  Eichel and Dahlin came from the tank and there is no way around that.  And no way you get them otherwise.  

So, that said, you're right that the danger of tanking means you can remain a garbage team for a long time unless the plan to dig you out of it is solid and executed well.  I think if we had JBots all along instead of Murray, we'd be in a better place (but wouldn't have Dahlin).  

I think that the way to look at The Sabres' Tank is as a prolonged one, netting us, again, Eichel and Dahlin (and JBots, truth be told), and this season is the first real attempt to recover from The Tank Years.

With that as the context, things look much better.

 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think the coach exists who could squeeze materially better scoring out of the Sabres' bottom 9 forwards.

That's where I actually do have a problem with him.  He's not trying hard enough to move players around into different lines.

[Hoss]

16 hours ago, Eleven said:

HUh?

The K-Gun was mostly the work of Marchibroda, who played football at St. Bonaventure, from what I’ve heard.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

That's where I actually do have a problem with him.  He's not trying hard enough to move players around into different lines.

Has he called a timeout yet?

Phil could move players around more, but the end result will be the same with this group of players, which is what @nfreeman was getting at, which I know you know.

For years you were saying that the roster was the problem, why not now?  It is vastly improved, but still has a long way to go.

 

[nfreeman]

22 minutes ago, ... said:

While I like your post, this here is a can of worms.  Eichel and Dahlin came from the tank and there is no way around that.  And no way you get them otherwise.  

So, that said, you're right that the danger of tanking means you can remain a garbage team for a long time unless the plan to dig you out of it is solid and executed well.  I think if we had JBots all along instead of Murray, we'd be in a better place (but wouldn't have Dahlin).  

I think that the way to look at The Sabres' Tank is as a prolonged one, netting us, again, Eichel and Dahlin (and JBots, truth be told), and this season is the first real attempt to recover from The Tank Years.

With that as the context, things look much better.

 

While you are far from the only one who has said this, and you are certainly right that the whole discussion is a festering can of worms, I will disagree that Dahlin was tankfruit.  The plan behind the tank was to pop down to the basement, scoop up Eichel or McD and quickly become good again -- not to finish DFL again in Eichel's 3rd year and get extremely lucky and win the Dahlin lottery.  Frankly, the fact that they were that bad in Eichel's 3rd year IMHO demonstrates the fallacy of the tank.

As for the question of whether having JB instead of TM manage the post-tank era -- as Taro and others have noted, I think it's more complicated than just having a solid plan and executing it well.  I think that once a team becomes that bad, the number of variables that have to turn out well in order for a team to climb out of the basement is simply too great, so that the likelihood of a rebound in a respectable period of time is too low.  The results are what we're seeing now.

 

12 minutes ago, Eleven said:

That's where I actually do have a problem with him.  He's not trying hard enough to move players around into different lines.

Well, I don't have any data on how his line combo changes compare with those of other teams, but I feel like there have been plenty of them.  I just think there are too many guys on the roster (Mitts, KO, Sheary, Sobotka, Pommer, Larsson, Zemgus, etc) who aren't going to generate offense no matter who they play with.

[darksabre]

The problem with the Sabres tanking when they did was that the cupboard was bare Rochester. If they had tanked while keeping good players in Rochester to develop and then brought them all up a few at a time after the tank things would probably have worked a lot better. 

Darcy started the tank, but the aftershock is owed to his YEARS of poor drafting that we are only just now recovering from. 

[Eleven]

32 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I don't have any data on how his line combo changes compare with those of other teams, but I feel like there have been plenty of them.  I just think there are too many guys on the roster (Mitts, KO, Sheary, Sobotka, Pommer, Larsson, Zemgus, etc) who aren't going to generate offense no matter who they play with.

Skinner-Eichel-Pominville worked early on; this, we know.

Mittlestadt is not ready to be a second-line center.

Reinhart *could* be a second-line center, but we don't know, because Housley isn't giving it a serious shot.  

Working from the premise that this isn't a championship season and never was supposed to be, I think it's fair to find fault with not giving serious consideration to Reinhart at 2C.

[Brawndo]

49 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Has he called a timeout yet?

Phil could move players around more, but the end result will be the same with this group of players, which is what @nfreeman was getting at, which I know you know.

For years you were saying that the roster was the problem, why not now?  It is vastly improved, but still has a long way to go.

 

One large concern with Housley is how he uses his match ups in games. Despite having the last line change at home he put the Eichel Line out consistently versus Bergeron’s Line in the home opener. Also during the Tampa Game on Saturday, Sobotka’s Line was getting destroyed by  Kucherov’s  while Larsson and Zemgus who are the the best at shutting down opponents where matched up against the Tampa Fourth Line. 

Granted the Kucherov Line is one of the best in hockey, but at least put your best defensive line against them. 

 

[nfreeman]

11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Skinner-Eichel-Pominville worked early on; this, we know. 

Mittlestadt is not ready to be a second-line center.

Reinhart *could* be a second-line center, but we don't know, because Housley isn't giving it a serious shot.  

Working from the premise that this isn't a championship season and never was supposed to be, I think it's fair to find fault with not giving serious consideration to Reinhart at 2C.

Pommer also started well last season before quickly running out of gas, as he did this season.  I don't think he's got anything left.

I too would like to see if Reino can consistently lead a 2nd line and thus improve their 2ndary scoring.

 

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

One large concern with Housley is how he uses his match ups in games. Despite having the last line change at home he put the Eichel Line out consistently versus Bergeron’s Line in the home opener. Also during the Tampa Game on Saturday, Sobotka’s Line was getting destroyed by  Kucherov’s  while Larsson and Zemgus who are the the best at shutting down opponents where matched up against the Tampa Fourth Line. 

Granted the Kucherov Line is one of the best in hockey, but at least put your best defensive line against them. 

 

This is fair.  I complain to myself every time I see Eichel's line take a D-zone faceoff or Larsson's line take an O-zone faceoff (neither of which happen that often, but arguably it should never happen).