TO TRADE OR NOT TO TRADE

[dudacek]

ROR was the 33rd highest scoring centre in the NHL, and at least a half-dozen of the guys listed ahead of him played mostly wing.

He’s also as good or better defensively than most of the guys ahead of him.

 

He’s an elite 2nd liner and a first liner on a lot of teams (Rangers, Jackets, Sens, Devils, Canes, Habs, Coyotes, Wings, Wild, Blues, Canucks), and in the discussion for a handful more.

[Eleven]

Still, there comes a point where a trade makes sense.  If Dallas really wants him, and  wants to give up Seguin or Benn plus Klingberg for O'Reilly and a second-round pick or a prospect or one of the lower-on-the-totem-pole defensemen, how do you not do that?  If the "Galyenchuk +" scenario comes to pass, dependig on the +, is it not a good idea?

 

This doesn't mean that he's a crap player or that he's a problem in the dressing room or any of that stuff.  (He's a great player, he has a small personal issue that I wish he'd address, and who knows anything about the dressing room.)  It just means that if there's a good hockey trade out there, maybe it's a good idea to take it.  Again, comes down to four words, "depends on the return."

[Brawndo]

ROR was the 33rd highest scoring centre in the NHL, and at least a half-dozen of the guys listed ahead of him played mostly wing.

He’s also as good or better defensively than most of the guys ahead of him.

He’s an elite 2nd liner and a first liner on a lot of teams (Rangers, Jackets, Sens, Devils, Canes, Habs, Coyotes, Wings, Wild, Blues, Canucks), and in the discussion for a handful more.

The second part is the reason I do not want to even consider trading ROR unless the return includes the names Colton Parayko or Dougie Hamilton.

 

Normally I am in the pick and prospect camp, but not with ROR involved.

 

I’m sure that Botterill agrees with We’ve Assessment that only Pittsburgh has a comparable top three centers and that bodes well for the future

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The Sabres have to stop trading players, especially good ones under a reasonable contract, for picks and prospects.

 

I would only support a ROR trade if it were a genuine hockey trade where there are actual good players coming back.

[dudacek]

Still, there comes a point where a trade makes sense.  If Dallas really wants him, and  wants to give up Seguin or Benn plus Klingberg for O'Reilly and a second-round pick or a prospect or one of the lower-on-the-totem-pole defensemen, how do you not do that?  If the "Galyenchuk +" scenario comes to pass, dependig on the +, is it not a good idea?

 

This doesn't mean that he's a crap player or that he's a problem in the dressing room or any of that stuff.  (He's a great player, he has a small personal issue that I wish he'd address, and who knows anything about the dressing room.)  It just means that if there's a good hockey trade out there, maybe it's a good idea to take it.  Again, comes down to four words, "depends on the return."

This is where I am at. Also seems to be the consensus, or at least as much as we ever have one.

[darksabre]

This is where I am at. Also seems to be the consensus, or at least as much as we ever have one.

Until someone comes in and complains about how "everyone" wants to trade O'Reilly and this whole thing starts all over again.

[Huckleberry]

https://www.thebuffalostar.com/2018/04/stats-lab-why-the-sabres-should-part-ways-with-oreilly/

[TrueBlueGED]

This ROR angst is the perfect example of blaming a player for a team's failings. It's insanity. There might be a viable hockey trade to be made (Eleven's Klingberg trade, for example). I don't think anyone disputes that. But what O'Reilly brings is bring criminally undervalued because the team sucks and he had the audacity to say being on a losing team sucks.

 

Edit: Furthermore, if Mittelstadt supplants him in a year or two at center, then boo boo we're stuck with a 65 point first-line winger who can seamlessly play center if injuries demand it.

Edited April 14, 2018 by TrueBlueGED

[Weave]

This ROR angst is the perfect example of blaming a player for a team's failings. It's insanity. There might be a viable hockey trade to be made (Eleven's Klingberg trade, for example). I don't think anyone disputes that. But what O'Reilly brings is bring criminally undervalued because the team sucks and he had the audacity to say being on a losing team sucks.

 

Edit: Furthermore, if Mittelstadt supplants him in a year or two at center, then boo boo we're stuck with a 65 point first-line winger who can seamlessly play center if injuries demand it.

 

The Patrick Sharp that I thought Sam would be.  :)

[Cityo'Rasmii]

For me, ROR is a must keep.  Best 2-way player on the roster.  Sure, if the right trade opportunity preset itself. . . maybe. . .

[Chris in Syracuse]

For the record, trading ROR would be a colossal mistake. He's everything you want in a 3rd line center... Eichel, Mittlestadt, ROR down the middle is how you build a Cup contender. That could be the best center combination in the league in the not too distant future.... you don't sacrifice that just because ROR has a hard time playing in a losing environment.

[BuffaloBorn]

Montreal Canadiens propaganda to make it seem like they have a single asset that is worth at least Ryan O'Rielly outside of #1 overall pick. (Galchenyuk? Really?)

Don't buy into it. Don't run your best players out of town to see ROR PPG on another team (he's more than capable). Add to this mess, not subtract.

By the way- I hope we can all learn something about center depth after the Briere/Drury fiasco of 2007. Short-memories, let's not tread those waters again.

Edited April 14, 2018 by BuffaloBorn

[Chris in Syracuse]

ROR makes too much to be third line. I would trade him and Risto for the #1 pick and a top prospect if we lose the lottery. We can draft Dahlin and a top speedy wing/center and develop another top prospect and save a ton of cap space. Buy out Bogo as well. We need to drastically change the core if we are ever going to change the losing culture. I like Risto but he does not buy in to Housleys system and therefore must go.

[BuffaloBorn]

ROR makes too much to be third line. I would trade him and Risto for the #1 pick and a top prospect if we lose the lottery. We can draft Dahlin and a top speedy wing/center and develop another top prospect and save a ton of cap space. Buy out Bogo as well. We need to drastically change the core if we are ever going to change the losing culture. I like Risto but he does not buy in to Housleys system and therefore must go.

What's the obsession with "third line"? Look at Vegas rolling 4 scoring lines, or Phil Kessel driving the third line. (I guess he's not worth it?) The reality is, it DOESN'T MATTER what number you put on it, your line is generally only as good as your center.

 

Also, do we really need to "drastically change the core"? The "core" is ambiguous enough, obviously something didn't work this season, doesn't mean they're destined to loserdom and we have to trade all of our talent. Why not add some vets? That's right, add. Look at how Colorado bounced back. Parity. Don't blow it up because of a 5 second sound bite of a p*ssed ROR. Risto is still ONLY 23 and has LOTS of development to go through as a D-man. I can't fathom how bad the Sabres would be if they didn't have Risto to stabilize the blue-line. So he's not lightning fast = dispose? I get where you're coming from but we need just a little bit more patience here, IMO.

Edited April 14, 2018 by BuffaloBorn

[SwampD]

I think ROR slots in as a 2/3 center, with the caveat that he is absolutely on the ice if we are up one goal with 1 minute to play in game seven of the SC final. I think I even got attacked for saying this very thing in a GDT one time.

[BuffaloBorn]

I just don't want to be like Edmonton and experience misery for high-end talent only to p*** it all away setting back the rebuild years, because of "character" or related trivial, qualitative reasons. This is also part of the reason why I was BEGGING people to give Reinhart a chance. Then he started playing well.... so he's not a bust. Can you imagine if we traded him, selling low, for scraps and watch him become a hall of famer? Not all high-end talent dominates the league at 22, DEVELOPMENT. I think what the Sabres fan-base needs is a little bit more optimism, coupled with just a little bit more patience. 31st place. Yeah, it sucks. But there's so many better options to build a team around young/younger/in-prime pieces than pull a Chiarelli and trade it all away for essentially nothing.

Edited April 14, 2018 by BuffaloBorn

[Weave]

Ok, WHY do you think all those teams would love him as a 2nd line center?

 

-snip-

 

Because there are only a small handful of teams that have 2 centers better than Ryan O'Reilly.

 

ROR wouldn't upgrade #2 center spot for Pittsburgh and Anaheim.

Maybe Dallas. Maybe Boston. Maybe Philly. Maybe Chicago.  Maybe Winnipeg depending on how you feel about Statsny.  Maybe Edmonton. 

 

Other than that, ROR is at least a #2 center on the rest of the teams in the league.

[Chris in Syracuse]

ROR does not want to be here. He never would have said what he did if he wanted to stay. He is not the type of center Housley wants and Risto is not the type of defensemen Housley wants. If the two were not such highly paid then yes keep them but not at there current salaries. It sucks getting rid of high end talent but there talents are NOT for this system.

[Taro T]

ROR makes too much to be third line. I would trade him and Risto for the #1 pick and a top prospect if we lose the lottery. We can draft Dahlin and a top speedy wing/center and develop another top prospect and save a ton of cap space. Buy out Bogo as well. We need to drastically change the core if we are ever going to change the losing culture. I like Risto but he does not buy in to Housleys system and therefore must go.

It will be at least 2 more seasons & likely 5 more seasons of Mittelstadt on a reasonably cheap contract. If your 2nd scoring line C is cheap, your shutdown C can be paid like your 2nd best C & a top 4 forward. Especially when that 3rd line C is your 2nd best player.

 

Whether Botterill is able to significantly improve this team's talent level to that of a true contender remains to be seen & is debatable at this point. (Me be giving him the benefit of the doubt @ present. :)) But I truly expect Botterill to end up w/ very little dead cap due to contracts he negotiates for/ brings in moving forward, so concerns about having a particular player's contract being out of whack in the team salary structure are not likely to be an issue IMHO.

ROR does not want to be here. He never would have said what he did if he wanted to stay. He is not the type of center Housley wants and Risto is not the type of defensemen Housley wants. If the two were not such highly paid then yes keep them but not at there current salaries. It sucks getting rid of high end talent but there talents are NOT for this system.

Disagree very much w/ the 2nd sentence of the bolded. So, ready dispute whether the 1st sentence of the bolded is valid either.

 

He is very hard on himself & seems to try to be honest when he speaks. So, the comments don't necessarily mean he wants out of Buffalo. He wants to be done w/ the losing, but that can happen here.

 

My 2 cents.

[LGR4GM]

It will be at least 2 more seasons & likely 5 more seasons of Mittelstadt on a reasonably cheap contract. If your 2nd scoring line C is cheap, your shutdown C can be paid like your 2nd best C & a top 4 forward. Especially when that 3rd line C is your 2nd best player.

 

Whether Botterill is able to significantly improve this team's talent level to that of a true contender remains to be seen & is debatable at this point. (Me be giving him the benefit of the doubt @ present. :)) But I truly expect Botterill to end up w/ very little dead cap due to contracts he negotiates for/ brings in moving forward, so concerns about having a particular player's contract being out of whack in the team salary structure are not likely to be an issue IMHO.

 

Disagree very much w/ the 2nd sentence of the bolded. So, ready dispute whether the 1st sentence of the bolded is valid either.

 

He is very hard on himself & seems to try to be honest when he speaks. So, the comments don't necessarily mean he wants out of Buffalo. He wants to be done w/ the losing, but that can happen here.

 

My 2 cents.

Stop making me agree with you. I can't be flounder if I agree with you all the time. The Germans didn't bomb pearl harbor!

[Taro T]

Stop making me agree with you. I can't be flounder if I agree with you all the time. The Germans didn't bomb pearl harbor!

:lol:

[Chris in Syracuse]

ROR is very smart and calculated. His agent and he came up with this brilliant ploy to get put on the trading block. No player that wants to play for a team with a losing culture and change the culture says that. He wants out out out! Look at Kane. ROR wants that. The point is that Risto and he do not fit Housleys’ system.

[Sabel79]

ROR is very smart and calculated. His agent and he came up with this brilliant ploy to get put on the trading block. No player that wants to play for a team with a losing culture and change the culture says that. He wants out out out! Look at Kane. ROR wants that. The point is that Risto and he do not fit Housleys’ system.

Johann Larson, is that you?

[Chris in Syracuse]

No not Larry. Just a lot big time fan sick of losing. We need young fast hungry players that want to win and that can play the system that their coach asks of them. Too much freelancing arrogant players that do not listen to leaders like Gionta and Gorges two cup winners. Time to blow up the core (including Larssaon)

[PerreaultForever]

Here's the thing, pretty much everyone agrees with Botterill's "culture of losing" comments. You don't fix that, you don't fix the team and it doesn't matter who you have or don't have. So how do you do that? They've tinkered and tried and guys like ROR were brought in presumably to be competitive work hard winners, BUT it hasn't worked, so what can you do???

 

The way I see it, there is only one possibility and that is to trade everyone else and build a brand new team around Eichel using just youth and new players. Will it be instant success? No, probably not, but it can remove the culture and we can start moving slowly upwards. 

 

Specifically with ROR there is debate and a level of doubt. Some say he was honest and such, others he is a quitter and so on, you can debate that all summer and beyond with no result. My view would be ANY player where there is doubt of any kind, you try to move him out and bring in unmolded youth. 

 

You keep the players we have, and the results will be the same.