TO TRADE OR NOT TO TRADE

[Sabre fan]

I know there is a endless amount of posters saying they want ROR moved this summer. After his post-season rant while cleaning out his locker after yet another disappointing year, ROR made it clear he was down in the dumps and frustrated with the whole situation here in Sabreland.

 

     Before we all jump the gun and run the guy out of town, it is also very important top realize just what he brings to the table every night. We have already said goodbye to Evander kane and ran him out of town, convinced he was the whole problem within the dressing room and a real "cancer". It does not appear the dressing room improved any after Kane's departure. I think we were led to believe and sold on a notion that moving Kane would fix all that was wrong within his team's locker room. Some are now saying the same about Ryan O'Reilly.

 

     ROR led the league in faceoffs and wins.That in itself is a great achievement and something (don't laugh) that is vital and essential come playoff time. I know you are all laughing but I have a hunch this team just may be ready to make the jump and maybe somehow make it to the big dance next season. ROR would be a absolute stud in playoff hockey.

 

     We ran Kane out of town and lets face it, he is a very good hockey player. He too is already proving a stud in playoff hockey (2 big goals last night in game one for SJ).. Now we are set to run another very good player out of town.ROR plays game in and game out against the other team's top line. He (and his linemates that usually include Okpsoso) get the honor of facing the other team's top forwards every night. While there are many reasons this team loses game after game, surprisingly the team constantly shuts down the other team's top players. That is directly due to ROR and linemates playing good, sound defensive hockey.

 

     The Leafs lost to the B's last night because they had no one to shut down the Bruins big guns, yet when the Sabres play theB's, we have good success against them because ROR shuts down the top players from the B's (or any other team for that matter).

 

     In the end, I wonder if we are not jumping too quick to judgement and running ROR out of town only because we are frustrated just like him, ironically enough. While the return would no doubt be substantial and very tempting, I also think we'd end up doing what we are doing about Evander Kane which of course is lamenting losing a very good hockey player.  Is there really any answer in continually trading your best players? Maybe we are too quick to blame the wrong guys. jack does what he can while playing with average wingers and ROR (and linemates) are asked to play night after night against the top players in the NHL and do so with pride and skill, often with very good results.

 

     Losing ROR would leave a huge whole down the middle. Who then goes against the top forwards for the other teams? Jack? A young and unproved Middlestat? If we find jack sometimes frustrated now imagine how he'd be having to line up night after night against the other team's top players?ROR performs a thankless job and does it very well. we would be, I think, crazy to trade him and force jack to play against the other team's top forwards.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Sabre fan

[Eleven]

Depends on the return.  I wouldn't have traded Kane for what the Sabres got for him and I wouldn't trade O'Reilly on a "desperation" deal, either.

[Sabre fan]

Depends on the return.  I wouldn't have traded Kane for what the Sabres got for him and I wouldn't trade O'Reilly on a "desperation" deal, either.

Exactly. I think everyone is desperate and looking for answers but trading ROR would prove dumb, just as the Kane trade was and clearly is a very bad move of the very good hockey player (and the EXACT kind of player this team needs) .

[Eleven]

Exactly. I think everyone is desperate and looking for answers but trading ROR would prove dumb, just as the Kane trade was and clearly is a very bad move of the very good hockey player (and the EXACT kind of player this team needs) .

 

Well, it might or might not prove dumb.  It really does depend on the return.  In another thread, another poster suggested "Galyenchuk +" in a hypothetical deal with the Canadiens.  Depending on the +, it could be a good deal.

[Weave]

Depends on the return.

These are the only 4 words I need. And I feel that way about every playet we have. Yes, including Jack. For the right return, I’m not attached to any of them.

[Doohicksie]

"Galyenchuk +" in a hypothetical deal with the Canadiens.  Depending on the +, it could be a good deal.

Do you really think the Canadiens would offer a + on top of Galchenyuk?  What makes ROR more desirable to the Habs?

[Eleven]

Do you really think the Canadiens would offer a + on top of Galchenyuk?  What makes ROR more desirable to the Habs?

 

So it starts here and continues with WildCard's suggested return:  https://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/25733-ryan-oreilly-stuck-with-the-mindset-of-losing/?p=1046166

[Doohicksie]

Right.  But my question remains.  Can anyone say what makes ROR more desirable to the Habs than Galchenyuk?  The suggestion of a + was WC's.  I'm not sure the Habs would see it that way.

[North Buffalo]

I know there is a endless amount of posters saying they want ROR moved this summer. After his post-season rant while cleaning out his locker after yet another disappointing year, ROR made it clear he was down in the dumps and frustrated with the whole situation here in Sabreland.

 

     Before we all jump the gun and run the guy out of town, it is also very important top realize just what he brings to the table every night. We have already said goodbye to Evander kane and ran him out of town, convinced he was the whole problem within the dressing room and a real "cancer". It does not appear the dressing room improved any after Kane's departure. I think we were led to believe and sold on a notion that moving Kane would fix all that was wrong within his team's locker room. Some are now saying the same about Ryan O'Reilly.

 

     ROR led the league in faceoffs and wins.That in itself is a great achievement and something (don't laugh) that is vital and essential come playoff time. I know you are all laughing but I have a hunch this team just may be ready to make the jump and maybe somehow make it to the big dance next season. ROR would be a absolute stud in playoff hockey.

 

     We ran Kane out of town and lets face it, he is a very good hockey player. He too is already proving a stud in playoff hockey (2 big goals last night in game one for SJ).. Now we are set to run another very good player out of town.ROR plays game in and game out against the other team's top line. He (and his linemates that usually include Okpsoso) get the honor of facing the other team's top forwards every night. While there are many reasons this team loses game after game, surprisingly the team constantly shuts down the other team's top players. That is directly due to ROR and linemates playing good, sound defensive hockey.

 

     The Leafs lost to the B's last night because they had no one to shut down the Bruins big guns, yet when the Sabres play theB's, we have good success against them because ROR shuts down the top players from the B's (or any other team for that matter).

 

     In the end, I wonder if we are not jumping too quick to judgement and running ROR out of town only because we are frustrated just like him, ironically enough. While the return would no doubt be substantial and very tempting, I also think we'd end up doing what we are doing about Evander Kane which of course is lamenting losing a very good hockey player.  Is there really any answer in continually trading your best players? Maybe we are too quick to blame the wrong guys. jack does what he can while playing with average wingers and ROR (and linemates) are asked to play night after night against the top players in the NHL and do so with pride and skill, often with very good results.

 

     Losing ROR would leave a huge whole down the middle. Who then goes against the top forwards for the other teams? Jack? A young and unproved Middlestat? If we find jack sometimes frustrated now imagine how he'd be having to line up night after night against the other team's top players?ROR performs a thankless job and does it very well. we would be, I think, crazy to trade him and force jack to play against the other team's top forwards.

I agree with this and understand his response to a shiite season. Just saying as a leader on a team you can’t be that honest or at least not way. He needs to respond like Jack did... sure say it to friends... coach... GM, but not to the team or public... it comes across as very narcissitic and is not not helpful to the team. Goes to what Housley said about players doing their own thing, though I doubt ROR is the problem unless his sulking is infecting the rest of the team?

[dudacek]

Ryan OReilly might be the best player for the Sabres this decade.

He is among the best two-way centres in the game.

 

If you are offering a first, a prospect and a middling player, off.

But if you are offering players who provide similar value as O’Reilly why the not?

 

Same goes for every one on the roster.

 

What we have is not working.

[inkman]

I know there is a endless amount of posters saying they want ROR moved this summer. After his post-season rant while cleaning out his locker after yet another disappointing year, ROR made it clear he was down in the dumps and frustrated with the whole situation here in Sabreland.

 

Before we all jump the gun and run the guy out of town, it is also very important top realize just what he brings to the table every night. We have already said goodbye to Evander kane and ran him out of town, convinced he was the whole problem within the dressing room and a real "cancer". It does not appear the dressing room improved any after Kane's departure. I think we were led to believe and sold on a notion that moving Kane would fix all that was wrong within his team's locker room. Some are now saying the same about Ryan O'Reilly.

 

ROR led the league in faceoffs and wins.That in itself is a great achievement and something (don't laugh) that is vital and essential come playoff time. I know you are all laughing but I have a hunch this team just may be ready to make the jump and maybe somehow make it to the big dance next season. ROR would be a absolute stud in playoff hockey.

 

We ran Kane out of town and lets face it, he is a very good hockey player. He too is already proving a stud in playoff hockey (2 big goals last night in game one for SJ).. Now we are set to run another very good player out of town.ROR plays game in and game out against the other team's top line. He (and his linemates that usually include Okpsoso) get the honor of facing the other team's top forwards every night. While there are many reasons this team loses game after game, surprisingly the team constantly shuts down the other team's top players. That is directly due to ROR and linemates playing good, sound defensive hockey.

 

The Leafs lost to the B's last night because they had no one to shut down the Bruins big guns, yet when the Sabres play theB's, we have good success against them because ROR shuts down the top players from the B's (or any other team for that matter).

 

In the end, I wonder if we are not jumping too quick to judgement and running ROR out of town only because we are frustrated just like him, ironically enough. While the return would no doubt be substantial and very tempting, I also think we'd end up doing what we are doing about Evander Kane which of course is lamenting losing a very good hockey player. Is there really any answer in continually trading your best players? Maybe we are too quick to blame the wrong guys. jack does what he can while playing with average wingers and ROR (and linemates) are asked to play night after night against the top players in the NHL and do so with pride and skill, often with very good results.

 

Losing ROR would leave a huge whole down the middle. Who then goes against the top forwards for the other teams? Jack? A young and unproved Middlestat? If we find jack sometimes frustrated now imagine how he'd be having to line up night after night against the other team's top players?ROR performs a thankless job and does it very well. we would be, I think, crazy to trade him and force jack to play against the other team's top forwards.

There are not an endless amount of posters trying to run ROR out of town Evander Kane was definitely not run out of town for being a locker room cancer. He was moved at the deadline because he was not returning. Either because he told JBOT he was testing free agency or he wants $8 mill a year. Edited April 13, 2018 by inkman

[pi2000]

For the record, trading ROR would be a colossal mistake.    He's everything you want in a 3rd line center... Eichel, Mittlestadt, ROR down the middle is how you build a Cup contender.    That could be the best center combination in the league in the not too distant future.... you don't sacrifice that just because ROR has a hard time playing in a losing environment.   

[Eleven]

Right.  But my question remains.  Can anyone say what makes ROR more desirable to the Habs than Galchenyuk?  The suggestion of a + was WC's.  I'm not sure the Habs would see it that way.

 

He's a much better two-way player and he's the best faceoff man in the world.  Who knows what value Montreal might assign to those characteristics?

Edited April 13, 2018 by Eleven

[Gramps]

For the record, trading ROR would be a colossal mistake.    He's everything you want in a 3rd line center... Eichel, Mittlestadt, ROR down the middle is how you build a Cup contender.    That could be the best center combination in the league in the not too distant future.... you don't sacrifice that just because ROR has a hard time playing in a losing environment.   

 

Except for what we're paying him

[inkman]

For the record, trading ROR would be a colossal mistake. He's everything you want in a 3rd line center... Eichel, Mittlestadt, ROR down the middle is how you build a Cup contender. That could be the best center combination in the league in the not too distant future.... you don't sacrifice that just because ROR has a hard time playing in a losing environment.

Buuuuuuut if he's a self loathing emo beeeaatch, do we really want him on the team?

[pi2000]

Buuuuuuut if he's a self loathing emo beeeaatch, do we really want him on the team?

 

Yes.   He hates losing, it eats at him and he speaks the truth... so yeah If you call that a "self-loathing emo bitch", then we need more of them.   

Except for what we're paying him

 

A 60 point player, best face-off man in the league, kills penalties, 1st power play unit, great defensively.... yeah I'd say he's worth every penny.

[darksabre]

Yes.   He hates losing, it eats at him and he speaks the truth... so yeah If you call that a "self-loathing emo bitch", then we need more of them.   

 

A 60 point player, best face-off man in the league, kills penalties, 1st power play unit, great defensively.... yeah I'd say he's worth every penny.

For once we agree on something. 

[LGR4GM]

I know there is a endless amount of posters saying they want ROR moved this summer. After his post-season rant while cleaning out his locker after yet another disappointing year, ROR made it clear he was down in the dumps and frustrated with the whole situation here in Sabreland.

 

     Before we all jump the gun and run the guy out of town, it is also very important top realize just what he brings to the table every night. We have already said goodbye to Evander kane and ran him out of town, convinced he was the whole problem within the dressing room and a real "cancer". It does not appear the dressing room improved any after Kane's departure. I think we were led to believe and sold on a notion that moving Kane would fix all that was wrong within his team's locker room. Some are now saying the same about Ryan O'Reilly.

 

   

3 things

There are not endless amounts of posters wanting ROR traded. There aren't even a lot of posters. Most say would depend on the return as in, you would need to really make it worth my while. We need to stop this type of hyperbole. It isn't true. I don't want ROR traded unless it was for something ridiculous like 2 firsts, top prospect, and a rostered player. Does that mean I am one of the endless posters who want him traded? I don't think so. 

 

The second thing is the Kane point. We did not run him out of town. Kane left because Botterill deemed his UFA contract was going to be more than he was willing to pay so he traded an asset he planned not to have after July 1. We keep ignoring Kane's contract situation like it didn't exist. It did and it does. Kane is a good hockey player. He just wasn't going to be retained so he was moved.

 

I thought of a 3rd thing because it has been a talking point around here for a few weeks now. "Locker room cancer" and the idea that if we move one player we will magically be better. I have not heard anyone except for people arguing against trading Kane or ROR pull out the magical locker room cancer fix theory.This locker room has more problems than 1 guy being a cancer. It is getting old hearing this tossed out as some thing that a majority of the board believe. A majority of the board does not believe ROR is some locker room cancer and once gone all of our problems will melt away like snow in July. Every time a member of the board says "hey you know, this is not working maybe we should trade player x", they then start getting the response "OOOOO you think he is a locker room cancer and this will fix everything! You are so dumb stop running good players out of town!" That isn't what is happening. What is happening is looking at the season the Sabres just had and asking where can changes be made. ROR would be a possible option. That doesn't mean people are running him out of town. Ristolainen could be traded, I am not running him out of time. Reinhart could be traded, not running him out of town. 

 

The Sabres sucked this past year. Discussing what we could get for some of our players makes sense in that environment and it isn't rooted in the belief that moving 1 guy will magically fix like some sort of magical hockey fairy waving a wand.  

[Robviously]

There are not an endless amount of posters trying to run ROR out of town Evander Kane was definitely not run out of town for being a locker room cancer. He was moved at the deadline because he was not returning. Either because he told JBOT he was testing free agency or he wants $8 mill a year.

This is it. And was anyone dying to give him 8 years last summer after that season? The most I remember was posters saying they'd want to sign him for modest deals that probably weren't what he was looking for.

[Huckleberry]

Depends on the return.  I wouldn't have traded Kane for what the Sabres got for him and I wouldn't trade O'Reilly on a "desperation" deal, either.

 

Well it was getting a return or watch him walk as a UFA.   And if he resigns with the sharks a 1st round pick + prospect is what I would have expected anyway.

As on O'Reilly I keep hearing the stars and blues want him.

[dudacek]

Yes.   He hates losing, it eats at him and he speaks the truth... so yeah If you call that a "self-loathing emo bitch", then we need more of them.   

 

A 60 point player, best face-off man in the league, kills penalties, 1st power play unit, great defensively.... yeah I'd say he's worth every penny.

Absolutely.

 

But I don’t know how one of the 50 best centres in the world (maybe top 25) could ever be referred to as a third-liner.

 

In the original six era, maybe.

[Gramps]

Yes.   He hates losing, it eats at him and he speaks the truth... so yeah If you call that a "self-loathing emo bitch", then we need more of them.   

 

A 60 point player, best face-off man in the league, kills penalties, 1st power play unit, great defensively.... yeah I'd say he's worth every penny.

 

On a good team, he scores 80 points and is a 2nd line center.

 

Make Middlestadt the 3rd line center.

[French Collection]

There are not an endless amount of posters trying to run ROR out of town Evander Kane was definitely not run out of town for being a locker room cancer. He was moved at the deadline because he was not returning. Either because he told JBOT he was testing free agency or he wants $8 mill a year.

Agree 100% on the Kane comments.

[msw2112]

I agree as well.  I liked Kane as a player, but he was going to be a UFA and either he was going to leave and we would have gotten no return, or he would have commanded a huge salary to stay.  Whether or not his personality was a good fit for what the team is trying to do in the future is debatable, and he has had some injury issues, but the UFA situation is undeniable.  Theoretically, we still could re-sign him after the playoffs, when he will be a UFA, but most likely, he will get more money elsewhere and/or elect to play in a more cosmopolitan market than Buffalo.  I love Buffalo and a lot of NHL (and NFL) players do, but it isn't for everybody.

 

The Kane situation is quite similar to the situation the Bills faced with Sammy Watkins last season.  In the end, the Bills made the right move by trading him.  They got a decent return (2nd round pick and the services of a decent CB for 1 season) for a player they were certain to lose in Free Agency for nothing.  He ended up getting something like $16 million from the Chiefs, and there's no way the Bills would have been able to match that, given their variety of needs and their salary cap situation.  And even if they wanted to match the Chiefs' offer, there's no guarantee that Sammy would have accepted it.

Edited April 13, 2018 by msw2112

[Radar]

Ryan OReilly might be the best player for the Sabres this decade.

He is among the best two-way centres in the game

.

Thank you. To see some of these posts makes me wonder about some posters hockey knowledge vs their message board expertise.