The Great Toronto Illusion (or should I say Delusion)

[Randall Flagg]

Who said there is a possibility that the Leafs win the Cup before the Sabres even make the playoffs again?

It's not outside of the realm of possibility that the Leafs win the cup before the Sabres make their top 5 pick in June.

 

I'm not saying it's likely or that I'd put money on it, but there are plenty of teams that will make the playoffs that have a worse chance.

[JohnRobertEichel]

Who said there is a possibility that the Leafs win the Cup before the Sabres even make the playoffs again?

 

I don't know, but I'll say it....

 

I'll go on record as saying that the Maple Leafs will win the Cup within the next 5 seasons. Meanwhile, the Sabre will set the NHL record for most consecutive seasons without a playoff berth.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'll go on record right now and say unless they find away to develop some good D, this Leafs team is going to win nothing.  Talk about a turnover machine. 

 

Frankly, they got out played by Nathan Beaulieu, Jordan Nolan and Johan Larsson.

 

After watching Florida play and this Loafs team,  Toronto better hope that Fla doesn't win the wildcard.

Edited March 6, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

Must have been a bad game for those guys, eh?

Sure struggled with protecting the puck.

[PerreaultForever]

Leafs were schooled by Washington on the weekend too. Their Nylander looked absolutely lost in that one too, maybe neither Nylander will amount to much in the long run.

 

Leafs seem to miss Matthews more than our guys miss Jack.  

[dudacek]

William Nylander is a hell of a hockey player.

[dudacek]

This is how I'd rank players in our prospect pools:

1.) Mittelstadt/Liljegren

2.) Kapanen

3.) Dermott

4.) Grundstrom (PPG in WJC, 14G in 32 SHL games after being drafted 2 years ago)

5.) Guhle

6.) Andreas Johnsson

7.) Asplund

8.) Borgman

9.) Ullmark

 

and then a bunch of stuff that I don't think will be NHL playersAnd this is with them graduating three major prospects versus our Eichel and 40 point winger Reinhart.

Hmm...

Given Dermott is a year older, he doesn’t seem to be tracking ahead of Guhle.

Kapanen is a year younger than Justin Bailey and is having a year much like Bailey did last year.

What sets Johnson ahead of CJ Smith or O’Regan or even Victor Olofsson?

Isn’t it a little early to be calling Grundstrom a stud and Alex Nylander a flop? Isn’t Nylander a year behind Grundstrom and hasn’t he outperformed Grundström when they’ve played together? For that matter, hasnt Rasmus Asplund?

This is the first time I’ve seen anyone other than a Leaf fan put Lillegren on the same level as Mittelstadt.

 

I’m just asking. I respect the world out of your hockey opinions, but this comes across as a helping of Because Buffalo served up through a lens of HF boards.

Edited March 6, 2018 by dudacek

[MODO Hockey]

William Nylander is a hell of a hockey player.

 

This.

[GASabresIUFAN]

http://buffalonews.com/2018/03/05/mike-harrington-seasons-dog-days-show-question-marks-for-leafs/

 

Even Harrington believes that their D is very suspect.

[Swedesessed]

http://mcubed.net/nhl/tor/buf.shtml

 

 

The next time a Toronto fan or media person tries to trigger you about their cravings to make Buffalo fans feel inferior: Send this page and drop the mic.

[Randall Flagg]

Hmm...

Given Dermott is a year older, he doesn’t seem to be tracking ahead of Guhle.

 

Dermott was taken like 2 picks after Guhle, no? Both are 2015 guys. Travis' AHL point pace is a little higher, and he has looked good in 25 NHL games, with 9 points. He's slower than Guhle but better at defending for now. The separation isn't big certainly but Guhle is still more raw (and with a higher ceiling). I think Dermott is a safe bet for a 3-4 and Guhle could be a top pairing guy or could be a 7D/AHL-tweener.

Kapanen is a year younger than Justin Bailey and is having a year much like Bailey did last year.

 

Kapanen is a year younger and essentially has two seasons of point per game AHL play. Bailey has 10 points in 27 AHL games while being a year ahead in his development, and had nearly 20 fewer points than Kapanen in similar games played last year. Bailey is fast, but Kapanen might be the best skater in that entire organization, which as a whole blows ours out of the water even with JVR and Bozak.

 

What sets Johnson ahead of CJ Smith or O’Regan or even Victor Olofsson?

 

I'm not sure, I just found out about him yesterday, but he essentially has as many points by himself as Mittelstadt, Nylander, and Bailey combined this year in just over half as many games played as all of them combined. 

Isn’t it a little early to be calling Grundstrom a stud and Alex Nylander a flop? Isn’t Nylander a year behind Grundstrom and hasn’t he outperformed Grundström when they’ve played together? For that matter, hasnt Rasmus Asplund?

 

I thought Grundstrom was better than both of them this year at WJC. But I'm an Asplund fan too so maybe you could convince me to move him up. Grundstrom has 14 goals in 32 SHL games, Asplund has 8 in 47. They're from the same draft. Grundstrom's point pace is slightly better overall too but it's close. 

This is the first time I’ve seen anyone other than a Leaf fan put Lillegren on the same level as Mittelstadt.

 

I like Casey but I'm just as puzzled by Sabres fans' views of him. He has nice hands and skating, and the tenacity is good. JT Compher's tenacity is also excellent, and Casey's post draft season is identical to JT's, and lower scoring than Tyson Jost's, which is completely fine. Casey has a lot of qualities that you like to see and don't show up on a score sheet. But he gets talked about among Sabres fans like he'll be the second best forward in the organization, and like he is in a tier of prospects that I simply don't see him in when I watch him. I'm hopeful he'll be a top 6 player. I think Liljegren is going to be a complete stud, I've been high on him since he was talked about as a top 3 pick before he experienced the Chychrun/Fowler/Lindholm drop. I'd put big money on him being a good offensive top 4 D (near half a point per game as an 18 yr old in the AHL)  whereas I hope Casey can be a top six player and put big money on him being a good middle six guy with tenacity and skill. I value the former more than the ladder, but I won't shout at anyone who puts Casey clearly above Tim.

 

I’m just asking. I respect the world out of your hockey opinions, but this comes across as a helping of Because Buffalo served up through a lens of HF boards.

 

There's actually not too much "Because Buffalo" here. I'm over Toronto being good. I simply think that there's no other franchise I'd take going forward than that one if I could choose. Some team has to hold that title any given year, and it's Toronto for me right now. I actually like Phil here more than most, I think we'll get a good player in the draft, I think Jack is a stud who's learning to lead and be elite, I hope Sam has woken up for good, and gimme some more of that ROR. We'll be fine and can hopefully look forward to greatness sometime fairly soon. I just think Toronto is right now where I hope we can be 3 years from now.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

Dermott is a second-year pro and Guhle a first.

Grundstrom and Asplund didn’t play in this year’s WJC, so I assume you mean the previous.

And whatever (injury-related?) struggles Bailey has had this year, that doesn’t change the fact that their 2nd pro seasons have been virtually identical.

 

But thanks.

Good explanation. Hope you are wrong.

Edited March 6, 2018 by dudacek

[TrueBlueGED]

Flagg, I agree with 90% of what you said. But you don't like Mittelstadt enough. Kid is a stud.

[dudacek]

Flagg, I agree with 90% of what you said. But you don't like Mittelstadt enough. Kid is a stud.

There’s one of two things going on here: Flagg’s been watching all of Casey’s meaningless games where he actually sucks, not just the high-profile games the rest of are watching; or, he is putting far too much emphasis on the numbers when the eye test shows pretty conclusively Casey has “it”

Edited March 6, 2018 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

There’s one of two things going on here: Flagg’s been watching all of Casey’s meaningless games where he actually sucks, not just the high-profile games the rest of are watching; or, he is putting far too much emphasis on the numbers when the eye test shows pretty conclusively Casey has “it”

I think "it" is exactly the stuff I mention. Which is great to see, but also, we have had so many years of Armias, Gragnanis, Baileys, that when we finally get a prospect that has the same "it" as JT goddamn Compher, it looks astounding to us. 

Like Casey's "intangible" stuff is the same as loads of other good prospects his age, and his skill is in line with his redraft position, which would be about ~5th in a weak-ish draft. His production is pretty much in line with that too. I think my expectations of him are completely in line with all of this stuff.

 

I will admit to being biased against his goofy stickhandling - when you zoom in and slow-mo his stickhandling, half the time he's just wiggling his stick (which has enough flex that the thing wobbles when he moves it) over the puck super fast, barely touching it much less actually meaningfully stickhandling. It bugs the crap out of me. It'll be useless in the NHL. 

 

The above paragraph is 97% joking around, he only does that sometimes when he has a lot of space. 

[dudacek]

I’m guilty of putting far too much emphasis on the WJC, but JT Compher was the 10th forward for a disappointing US team while Casey was the best player in the entire tournament.

 

I do think brakes generally need to be pumped on Casey, but IMO comparing to Compher is leaving the car in park.

[Randall Flagg]

I’m guilty of putting far too much emphasis on the WJC, but JT Compher was the 10th forward for a disappointing US team while Casey was the best player in the entire tournament.

 

I do think brakes generally need to be pumped on Casey, but IMO comparing to Compher is leaving the car in park.

He's a better prospect than Compher ever was, I really just mean to use the comparison as a reason to pump the breaks and not expect what 95% of most Sabres fans appear to expect from Casey. 

[Drunkard]

He's a better prospect than Compher ever was, I really just mean to use the comparison as a reason to pump the breaks and not expect what 95% of most Sabres fans appear to expect from Casey. 

 

You're evaluation is starting to border on blasphemy. Next you're gonna say he doesn't even walk on water. I'll pray for you.

[BagBoy]

Here we are with another game against the “elite” Toronto Leafs. As usual, there is another article from the Toronto media how great Toronto’s turnaround has been, how they are an elite team and the Sabres are regressing. As usual they ignore that the Leafs have stunk for 50 years. No Conference Championships, no Cups, no President’s Trophies and only one division championship in 50 years. They also ignore how this rebuilt Toronto team has it’s own decade of true ineptitude. JVR was 2nd overall in 2007. Key center Kadri was their top pick in 2009. In fact, if not for the Kessel trade, the Leafs would have selected in the top 10 from 2008 to 2016 every year but one. Talk about a decade of failure.

 

So far the Sabres have stunk now going on 6 years, and we are still along way from being real competition for the Leafs, but the Leafs are far from an elite team and far from being a true Cup contender despite what the Tor media thinks. Their defense may be worse then the Sabres and their goaltending is nearly as bad. The thing that is driving the Leafs is a prolific offense. However, this to may be adjusting soon. Nylander is an RFA, JVR and Komerov are UFAs. They are also in cap hell and may not be keep this squad together and fix their issues.

 

Delusional indeed!  I have many well loved family members in Toronto, and was born there myself, but good gracious, there has been a giant disconnect with the Leafs and reality there for literally decades now.  How does this happen?  My theory is that there is a certain arrogance to the average Torontonian.  Toronto is one of the most dynamic, diverse and well educated cities on earth, and the people who live there are well aware of it, and proud of it.

 

You know how when we have a major hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico and the weather channels use different colors to show how bad things could get?  And Texas has all these pretty colors over it, but everything in Mexico is just gray, even though they’re probably going to get hit harder than Texas?  At least this analogy has national overtones, but with Torontonians, it’s pretty much this mindset, only the borders don’t even extend into the rest of Ontario, let alone the rest of the nation.  They identify much more as Torontonians than as Canadians.  Vancouver?  Smelly hippies.  Calgary and Edmonton?  Stetson wearing rednecks.  Winnipeg?  Ha!  Not even worth commenting on.  Montreal?  Get real, that’s in Quebec!  East of Quebec?  Couldn’t care less.

 

Okay, now put yourself into the place of the Toronto Media.  You could run stories on how well the Winnipeg and Calgary rebuilds are progressing…and fail miserably.  Or you could run stories about how Morgan Rielly will probably win 3 or 4 of the next 5 Norris Trophies, and win the Canadian equivalent of a Pulitzer.  The math is pretty easy, even for an English major.  Then it starts becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing.  “The Globe and Mail said the Norris Trophy would be renamed the Rielly Trophy any day now, so of course it’s true!!!”  The next thing you know these people start breeding and spreading this crap to their kids like it’s the gospel truth.

 

Okay, glad I got that off my chest.  Now for the fun part.  The reason the Leafs will never win another Cup is The Ghost of Harold Ballard.  Harold Ballard was the owner of the Leafs until he died in 1990.  He was probably the most abrasive, vile, vindictive, petty, cantankerous, soulless basstard to ever draw breath.  Everybody hated him.  He made Ty Cobb look like the Dean of a charm school.  Even his dog hated him.  He wasn’t eligible for Heaven, but the Devil didn’t want him hanging around hell.  From this unique, undead place in Purgatory, fearing neither God nor Satan, The Ghost of Harold Ballard has the ultimate say on what happens to the Leafs, and I don’t like their chances.  The Cubs were cursed for 108 years.  The Leafs are already at 50 years, but The Ghost of Harold Ballard will crush the next 58 years like Chuck Norris crushes 58 onion rings!

[dudacek]

I really like this ^^^ post.

[SwampD]

So, the NYC of Canadia.

[Taro T]

Delusional indeed!  I have many well loved family members in Toronto, and was born there myself, but good gracious, there has been a giant disconnect with the Leafs and reality there for literally decades now.  How does this happen?  My theory is that there is a certain arrogance to the average Torontonian.  Toronto is one of the most dynamic, diverse and well educated cities on earth, and the people who live there are well aware of it, and proud of it.

 

You know how when we have a major hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico and the weather channels use different colors to show how bad things could get?  And Texas has all these pretty colors over it, but everything in Mexico is just gray, even though they’re probably going to get hit harder than Texas?  At least this analogy has national overtones, but with Torontonians, it’s pretty much this mindset, only the borders don’t even extend into the rest of Ontario, let alone the rest of the nation.  They identify much more as Torontonians than as Canadians.  Vancouver?  Smelly hippies.  Calgary and Edmonton?  Stetson wearing rednecks.  Winnipeg?  Ha!  Not even worth commenting on.  Montreal?  Get real, that’s in Quebec!  East of Quebec?  Couldn’t care less.

 

Okay, now put yourself into the place of the Toronto Media.  You could run stories on how well the Winnipeg and Calgary rebuilds are progressing…and fail miserably.  Or you could run stories about how Morgan Rielly will probably win 3 or 4 of the next 5 Norris Trophies, and win the Canadian equivalent of a Pulitzer.  The math is pretty easy, even for an English major.  Then it starts becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing.  “The Globe and Mail said the Norris Trophy would be renamed the Rielly Trophy any day now, so of course it’s true!!!”  The next thing you know these people start breeding and spreading this crap to their kids like it’s the gospel truth.

 

Okay, glad I got that off my chest.  Now for the fun part.  The reason the Leafs will never win another Cup is The Ghost of Harold Ballard.  Harold Ballard was the owner of the Leafs until he died in 1990.  He was probably the most abrasive, vile, vindictive, petty, cantankerous, soulless basstard to ever draw breath.  Everybody hated him.  He made Ty Cobb look like the Dean of a charm school.  Even his dog hated him.  He wasn’t eligible for Heaven, but the Devil didn’t want him hanging around hell.  From this unique, undead place in Purgatory, fearing neither God nor Satan, The Ghost of Harold Ballard has the ultimate say on what happens to the Leafs, and I don’t like their chances.  The Cubs were cursed for 108 years.  The Leafs are already at 50 years, but The Ghost of Harold Ballard will crush the next 58 years like Chuck Norris crushes 58 onion rings!

Ballard was a serious headcase and couldn't have been owner of a more deserving fanbase's team (sorry Millbank, the 200 good TO fans don't outweigh the other 2MM).

 

When the league required all teams to put nameplates on the back of sweaters, he had the letters & the nameplates both be the same color as the sweaters so they effectively DIDN'T have the names on them. :lol:

 

He also did some jailtime. Apparently, he told an interviewer (from Harpers maybe?) how incredibly nice the conditions were in the prison & when the article published it caused a bit of an uproar from the general population. "How DARE we coddle these white collar criminals" & "this is an OUTRAGE" were the common refrains. Only problem was, Ballard was completely full of #### regarding the conditions. :lol:

 

Would be awesome if he's still pulling the strings from the "great beyond." :lol: :beer:

[Crusader1969]

TSN last night said the " leafs put the build in rebuild" but the biggest difference between the 2 teams is that Toronto didn't strip it down nearly as much as Buffalo

 

Included in the Leafs top 10 scorers in 2013-14 for the Leafs:

JVR

Kadri

Bozak

Komarov

Gardiner

Reilly

 

 

Top 10 scorers from Buffalo still on roster

1) Zemgus Girgensons

[Ducky]

The first thing you have to remember is there is no greater sports team than the Leafs.

The second thing you have to remember is there is no greater city than Toronto.

The third thing you have to remember is that, contrary to popular belief, the sun is not the center of the universe, Toronto is.

This is a fine start to not even beginning to read an article about this team.

How long without a cup and one of the richest teams in the league...even wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before the cap? Pathetic.

 

I didn't mind them when Sittler and co. played (Ballard was an idiot) or Keon and Ellis and the boys but not one of my favorite sports organizations.

TSN last night said the " leafs put the build in rebuild" but the biggest difference between the 2 teams is that Toronto didn't strip it down nearly as much as Buffalo

Included in the Leafs top 10 scorers in 2013-14 for the Leafs:
JVR
Kadri
Bozak
Komarov
Gardiner
Reilly


Top 10 scorers from Buffalo still on roster
1) Zemgus Girgensons

Kadri and Reilly are gamers but that's about it. The Leafs have largely done well because Shanahan cleaned out most of the bad contracts and the team has drafted not too bad mainly because of having higher draft picks. They also picked up a good goalie and a good coach (which seems to go hand in hand). They have to be very careful of overpaying Matthews.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Ducky

[nfreeman]

So, the NYC of Canadia.

Toronto is more like L.A. than like NYC IMHO.