Kane is gone. Who is next?

[Drunkard]

im going to be honest. i cant believe that nobody else was traded. when they said at the start of the season everyone not named jack was on the block. 

 

was jbott asking too much or is the roster that horrible that no other team wanted anyone from the team. 

 

i know 95% of my posts here are jokes about lehner, but this is an honest question. 

 

It's definitely both. GMJB set his prices way too high and it likely lowered the number of teams who even bothered to kick the tires on some of our guys which weakened the market on our players. The fact that the team has been poor all season further suppressed value.

 

I'm sure we could have gotten a much better prospect for Kane than Dan O'Regan if not for the 4 pieces including a first nonsense. He insisted on getting 4 quarters for his gold dollar though and ended up settling for 3 dimes in the 11th hour when he may have been able to get a half-dollar or two quarters if he hadn't been so firm in his demands.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Alkoholist

[darksabre]

It's definitely both. GMJB set his prices way too high and it likely lowered the number of teams who even bothered to kick the tires on some of our guys which weakened the market on our players. The fact that the team has been poor all season further suppressed value.

 

I'm sure we could have gotten a much better prospect for Kane than Dan O'Regan if not for the 4 pieces including a first nonsense. He insisted on getting 4 quarters for his gold dollar though and ended up settling for 3 dimes in the 11th hour when he may have been able to get a half-dollar or two quarters if he hadn't been so firm in his demands.

This is SOP for all GM's. Kane, predictably, just wasn't that valuable.

[Randall Flagg]

I'm still confused about how we definitely know the intricate details of all of Botterill's proposals and conversations.

[darksabre]

I'm still confused about how we definitely know the intricate details of all of Botterill's proposals and conversations.

Right. Every critic here appears to have been in the office with Botterill. You'd think we'd have known about the trade sooner with all these insiderrrrrrrs. 

[Drunkard]

This is SOP for all GM's. Kane, predictably, just wasn't that valuable.

 

He was probably worth a more valuable prospect than Dan O'Regan. Setting too high of a price and holding firm to it most likely limited the number of interested parties.

 

I'm still confused about how we definitely know the intricate details of all of Botterill's proposals and conversations.

 

It's speculation based on known/available information. Every report stated that GMJB was holding firm on his 4 pieces including a first price tag and those same reports said that none of the other GM's were biting at that price (and the facts have born that out by the fact that Kane didn't fetch the required return). If you were running some playoff bubble team and you had your sights set on adding a guy like Evander Kane but the price is 4 pieces including a first, you're more likely to either stand pat with your roster or look elsewhere for upgrades that can be had for cheaper. Maybe a team is willing to give up a near ready prospect but no 1st rounder. Maybe another team is willing to give up a first but no prospects. Sticking so firmly to his guns was stupid.

Right. Every critic here appears to have been in the office with Botterill. You'd think we'd have known about the trade sooner with all these insiderrrrrrrs. 

 

Whatever. I've never claimed insider sources or any of that nonsense. You don't have to have any special insight to see that JB overplayed his hand.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Alkoholist

[darksabre]

He was probably worth a more valuable prospect than Dan O'Regan. Setting too high of a price and holding firm to it most likely limited the number of interested parties.

 

 

It's speculation based on known/available information. Every report stated that GMJB was holding firm on his 4 pieces including a first price tag and those same reports said that none of the other GM's were biting at that price (and the facts have born that out by the fact that Kane didn't fetch the required return). If you were running some playoff bubble team and you had your sights set on adding a guy like Evander Kane but the price is 4 pieces including a first, you're more likely to either stand pat with your roster or look elsewhere for upgrades that can be had for cheaper. Maybe a team is willing to give up a near ready prospect but no 1st rounder. Maybe another team is willing to give up a first but no prospects. Sticking so firmly to his guns was stupid.

I doubt it. Just because there's an established ask doesn't mean GM's simply don't make offers. If that is the case, then those GM's are idiots and some from Craigslist would do a better job. 

[Randall Flagg]

Kane's value is in line with what I saw from him on the ice. Botterill didn't turn down better offers. Botterill's price wasn't too scary for the poor wittol GMs to not ask to give up less.

 

This board has driven me nuts the last 24 hours.

[darksabre]

Kane's value is in line with what I saw from him on the ice. Botterill didn't turn down better offers. Botterill's price wasn't too scary for the poor wittol GMs to not ask to give up less.

 

This board has driven me nuts the last 24 hours.

Mhm. 

[nfreeman]

im going to be honest. i cant believe that nobody else was traded. when they said at the start of the season everyone not named jack was on the block. 

 

was jbott asking too much or is the roster that horrible that no other team wanted anyone from the team. 

 

i know 95% of my posts here are jokes about lehner, but this is an honest question. 

 

I think it was the bolded.

 

The Sabres are a terrible team.  What playoff team was going to look at their lesser players (which their UFAs undoubtedly were other than Kane) and say "I want that guy"?

 

I posted this elsewhere, but it's relevant here:  Travis Yost of TSN was on with Schopp on Friday and said there was no interest around the NHL in Lehner.  Lehner stinks, but he is a starting goalie.  If no one wanted him, it's pretty GD likely that there was also no demand for Gorges, Pouliot or the rest of the dreck.

 

 

It's definitely both. GMJB set his prices way too high and it likely lowered the number of teams who even bothered to kick the tires on some of our guys which weakened the market on our players. The fact that the team has been poor all season further suppressed value.

 

I'm sure we could have gotten a much better prospect for Kane than Dan O'Regan if not for the 4 pieces including a first nonsense. He insisted on getting 4 quarters for his gold dollar though and ended up settling for 3 dimes in the 11th hour when he may have been able to get a half-dollar or two quarters if he hadn't been so firm in his demands.

 

You have absolutely no way of knowing any of this -- and the available evidence -- i.e. what actually happened -- squarely contradicts your position.

 

Even if JBott's initial asking price was higher -- that is just negotiating tactics.  Obviously the price dropped and ended up where it was.  No NHL GM is going to say "How dare he ask for that much last month.  Just for that, I'm not going to trade for Kane now even though the price is lower."

[bunomatic]

After sleeping on my initial disappointment over the return I've actually come around. This young guy has an opportunity to grow with this team and hopefully JBot and his management group/scouting staff did their homework. Kane is gone. We might have lost him for nothing. Moving on...

[Weave]

I’m a little surprised that Poulliot seemed to garner no interest. I thought for sure that he has the size, speed, and production to be valuable as a support player for a long run. Maybe he just looks halfway decent hete because we have so few players to feature that his play here decieved us (me, anyway).

 

Other than Kane and Poulliot, I didn’t expect we’d be able to move anyone.

[darksabre]

I’m a little surprised that Poulliot seemed to garner no interest. I thought for sure that he has the size, speed, and production to be valuable as a support player for a long run. Maybe he just looks halfway decent hete because we have so few players to feature that his play here decieved us (me, anyway).

 

Other than Kane and Poulliot, I didn’t expect we’d be able to move anyone.

I was surprised by Pouliot not moving too, but if Edmonton put him on waivers and there were other JAGS available on waivers yesterday then I guess he didn't really have that much value comparatively.

[Crusader1969]

If Kane's value is this low now, imagine how low it was when the Sabres traded for him? Murray held all the cards at that time and somehow still lost the hand, pretty hard to do.

 

That being said, O'Regan is probably a bit better of a prospect that what he is getting credit for. Sure he isn't Jordan Kyrou or any other big name that I was dreaming about but he was one of the Sharks top prospects and maybe can turn himself into a bottom 6 winger for the Sabres? He certainly helps Rochester in the short-term.

 

I also like the Sharks chances of re-signing Kane but not getting a guaranteed 1st for him is very disappointing.

 

I do wonder if JB was more aggressive in trying to trade him prior to Christmas, would he have found someone willing to give up a 1st? hindsight is 20/20 but playing him with Larsson for anytime certainly didn't help his trade value.

[Taro T]

I’m a little surprised that Poulliot seemed to garner no interest. I thought for sure that he has the size, speed, and production to be valuable as a support player for a long run. Maybe he just looks halfway decent hete because we have so few players to feature that his play here decieved us (me, anyway).

Other than Kane and Poulliot, I didn’t expect we’d be able to move anyone.

When Pouliot played against the Bruins, figured it was a foregone conclusion he'd be a Sabre today.

 

Thought Gorges might have gotten moved but Oduya & Alt getting put on waivers seemed to take any maket for him from slim to non-existent.

[Gramps]

When Pouliot played against the Bruins, figured it was a foregone conclusion he'd be a Sabre today.

 

Thought Gorges might have gotten moved but Oduya & Alt getting put on waivers seemed to take any maket for him from slim to non-existent.

 

Gorges has been scratched too often to be worthy of a trade. Betting he'll be overseas next year.

[dudacek]

There wasn’t a lot of Gorges/Pouliot types moved yesterday - I’m talking veteran roster filler/playoff insurance

[Taro T]

Gorges has been scratched too often to be worthy of a trade. Betting he'll be overseas next year.

I'd expect he'll hang 'em up.

There wasn’t a lot of Gorges/Pouliot types moved yesterday - I’m talking veteran roster filler/playoff insurance

True. Probably due to only ~6 teams being locks on making the playoffs. Why give up a prospect to make sure you're fully stocked w/ NHLers if you lose a guy to injury in the playoffs when you don't even know if you'll get there?

[Thorner]

If Kane's value is this low now, imagine how low it was when the Sabres traded for him? Murray held all the cards at that time and somehow still lost the hand, pretty hard to do.

 

That being said, O'Regan is probably a bit better of a prospect that what he is getting credit for. Sure he isn't Jordan Kyrou or any other big name that I was dreaming about but he was one of the Sharks top prospects and maybe can turn himself into a bottom 6 winger for the Sabres? He certainly helps Rochester in the short-term.

 

I also like the Sharks chances of re-signing Kane but not getting a guaranteed 1st for him is very disappointing.

 

I do wonder if JB was more aggressive in trying to trade him prior to Christmas, would he have found someone willing to give up a 1st? hindsight is 20/20 but playing him with Larsson for anytime certainly didn't help his trade value.

Are you theorizing that his value was lower in 2015? It was certainly higher, substantially.

 

All one has to do is look and see that Hartman fetched a better return this deadline than Kane. Term.

[PerreaultForever]

I'm thinking I wouldn't want to be Botterill.

 

I mean what can he do? Who else on this team is going to get good value in return so how does he ditch them and still put a team on the ice? Lehner was shopped around it seems and nobody wanted him. Give him away? Ok, we go with Ullmark. But for the rest of the team what? You ditch Scandella the first decent piece we've added to the D in years? Is he supposed to just bring all of Rochester up and somehow that'll make us better? Bailey? Baptiste? Fasching? etc? 3rd liners at best. If that. 

FAs? Who is going to come to Buffalo with this boat sinking unless you overpay them like Murray did Okposo and then your cap is shot for mediocrity at best. 

 

In order to do this right, this seems like it has to be more of a 5 year plan than anything less. 

 

The draft is the only answer, and that is going to take time. 

[Weave]

I'm thinking I wouldn't want to be Botterill.

 

I mean what can he do? Who else on this team is going to get good value in return so how does he ditch them and still put a team on the ice? Lehner was shopped around it seems and nobody wanted him. Give him away? Ok, we go with Ullmark. But for the rest of the team what? You ditch Scandella the first decent piece we've added to the D in years? Is he supposed to just bring all of Rochester up and somehow that'll make us better? Bailey? Baptiste? Fasching? etc? 3rd liners at best. If that. 

FAs? Who is going to come to Buffalo with this boat sinking unless you overpay them like Murray did Okposo and then your cap is shot for mediocrity at best. 

 

In order to do this right, this seems like it has to be more of a 5 year plan than anything less. 

 

The draft is the only answer, and that is going to take time. 

 

It is also fraught with peril.  The odds of a draft pick making much of a contribution drop considerably once you get outside the 1st half of the 1st round.

 

JB will need to earn his money there.  And outproduce the averages.

Edited February 28, 2018 by We've

[Crusader1969]

Are you theorizing that his value was lower in 2015? It was certainly higher, substantially.

All one has to do is look and see that Hartman fetched a better return this deadline than Kane. Term.

No sorry, I'm theorizing that Murray substantially over paid in 2015 consider he was injured and coming off "track suit" gate.

[3putt]

Spotrac has Nelson listed as a RFA. With Reinhart, thought any offer extended is termed a qualifying offer.

He is a class VI ufa sporttrac is wrong.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/casey-nelson

Edited February 28, 2018 by 3putt

[Crusader1969]

I'm sure the Sabres have a great shot at resigning him. How many other teams can pretty well guarantee a NHL roster spot next year?

[3putt]

I'm sure the Sabres have a great shot at resigning him. How many other teams can pretty well guarantee a NHL roster spot next year?

Depends on what he wants. But generally I agree. The point is he is a UFA and can’t be tendered.

[Taro T]

Depends on what he wants. But generally I agree. The point is he is a UFA and can’t be tendered.

True. But he can be signed anytime prior to July 1.