Gretzky and Today's NHL

[French Collection]

He definitely would not approach those numbers in today's game. Better goalies and coaching have tightened up the game.

 

He also had Semenko destroying anyone that came near him. Lemieux was bigger and had to handle guys hanging off of him.

 

Gretzky was winning scoring titles by tons of points, so he was dominant. He was intelligent and would find a way to get points in the modern game. He would be a beast in the PP.

 

He was a rink rat and would surely put in the work to be the best. I'll guess that 140-150 points would be in his reach.

[7+6=13]

You really think it's tougher now than when Larry Playfair was cross-checking people over the back of the head to clear the goal area? 

 

For the skilled offensive players - it's definitely harder.  You don't get a chance to skate anymore.  They grab, lean, hold, push and whack and very little gets called - it's allowed.  

[calti]

Some of the comments Im hearing on here making me shake my head. Gretzky DID have a peer at his level and of course that was Mario. 

Gretzky was better than anyone today..Altho I think Crosby could have been close to Mario and Wayne IF he didnt have the concussion issues.

Crosby is still great but he is damaged goods.

 

I have to remember that even 30 yr olds on here didnt see Gretzy in his prime. He was s smarter player than anyone else. By far. The guy weighed about 165 soaking wet and his speed wasnt great. So what. He had an eery ability to know exactly where the puck was going to be.

 

Gretzky,Orr,Howe,Lemieux,Hull,Crosby on Mt Rushmore as far as non goalies go. Im not old enough to have seen Geoffrion or some of the older guys.

Perrault should have been up there but he wasnt as driven as these guys. He had the talent.

 

People in Buffalo over 30 are fortunate enough to have seen one of the top 3 goalies of all time on an every day basis. He was supernaturally  good. Kinda like Gretzky was. And he was a stick as well at about 165 LBs.

You really think it's tougher now than when Larry Playfair was cross-checking people over the back of the head to clear the goal area? 

playfair was a very scary guy. so was Korab.

 

note --Mike Peca---a smallish guy at 180 LBs --was one of the toughest players I have ever seen.

[Taro T]

Some of the comments Im hearing on here making me shake my head. Gretzky DID have a peer at his level and of course that was Mario. 

Gretzky was better than anyone today..Altho I think Crosby could have been close to Mario and Wayne IF he didnt have the concussion issues.

Crosby is still great but he is damaged goods.

 

I have to remember that even 30 yr olds on here didnt see Gretzy in his prime. He was s smarter player than anyone else. By far. The guy weighed about 165 soaking wet and his speed wasnt great. So what. He had an eery ability to know exactly where the puck was going to be.

 

Gretzky,Orr,Howe,Lemieux,Hull,Crosby on Mt Rushmore as far as non goalies go. Im not old enough to have seen Geoffrion or some of the older guys.

Perrault should have been up there but he wasnt as driven as these guys. He had the talent.

 

People in Buffalo over 30 are fortunate enough to have seen one of the top 3 goalies of all time on an every day basis. He was supernaturally  good. Kinda like Gretzky was. And he was a stick as well at about 165 LBs.

playfair was a very scary guy. so was Korab.

 

note --Mike Peca---a smallish guy at 180 LBs --was one of the toughest players I have ever seen.

He absolutely did. But his not giving a rat's bippy until after his Hodgkins AND back problems left Gretzky as the only player to date (& very possibly ever) to hit 200 & Wayne did it multiple times.

 

Crosby is the closest equivalent to Gretzky, but he didn't dominate his rivals like the Great One did.

 

And it's probably more legend than truth, but the Eulers routinely claimed that Wayne finished dead last in every skill/time/strength drill they ran in training camp. But still, the one year he WANTED to score goals he ended up the only player ever in the 90's (& he hit 50 in 39) & he's still the only player ever to top 200 points.

 

Sometimes that vision thing is actually worth a goal or 2. ;)

[pi2000]

Gretzky wasn't just better, he 8s exponentially better than anyone who has ever played.

[PerreaultForever]

I'm thinking you guys are too young to remember Perreault. He had it all but had the misfortune of having to play in an era of allowed brutality. I remember watching him skate around the ice on a penalty kill one time for like 1:45 of the 2 minutes just playing keep-away. he was part Gretzky, part Lemieux, just brilliant, but it was a different era. Different rules. 

 

I'd only place Orr above him for greatest of all time. 

 

(We probably lose all these lotteries as karma for winning that one)

[nucci]

And look at the goalie equipment back then ... 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh056e-AYGM

and there it is...look at how much of the net is open.....players used to score from all areas.....now everyone has to crash the net to try and score. Rick Martin used to score from the blue with no screen on the goalie

[North Buffalo]

and there it is...look at how much of the net is open.....players used to score from all areas.....now everyone has to crash the net to try and score. Rick Martin used to score from the blue with no screen on the goalie

Yeh now a shot from the point needs to be tipped to go in or a  heavy screen.  Not only pads bigger, so are the goalies and more athletic than that Minnesota pillon.   Also now D packs it in.  Not often you see that much standing around except on a Penalty kill.

[Weave]

Some of the comments Im hearing on here making me shake my head. Gretzky DID have a peer at his level and of course that was Mario. 

Gretzky was better than anyone today..Altho I think Crosby could have been close to Mario and Wayne IF he didnt have the concussion issues.

Crosby is still great but he is damaged goods.

 

I have to remember that even 30 yr olds on here didnt see Gretzy in his prime. He was s smarter player than anyone else. By far. The guy weighed about 165 soaking wet and his speed wasnt great. So what. He had an eery ability to know exactly where the puck was going to be.

 

Gretzky,Orr,Howe,Lemieux,Hull,Crosby on Mt Rushmore as far as non goalies go. Im not old enough to have seen Geoffrion or some of the older guys.

Perrault should have been up there but he wasnt as driven as these guys. He had the talent.

 

People in Buffalo over 30 are fortunate enough to have seen one of the top 3 goalies of all time on an every day basis. He was supernaturally  good. Kinda like Gretzky was. And he was a stick as well at about 165 LBs.

playfair was a very scary guy. so was Korab.

 

note --Mike Peca---a smallish guy at 180 LBs --was one of the toughest players I have ever seen.

 

I think Mario's game was more suited to dominating today's NHL than Gretzky's was. 

I'm thinking you guys are too young to remember Perreault. He had it all but had the misfortune of having to play in an era of allowed brutality. I remember watching him skate around the ice on a penalty kill one time for like 1:45 of the 2 minutes just playing keep-away. he was part Gretzky, part Lemieux, just brilliant, but it was a different era. Different rules. 

 

I'd only place Orr above him for greatest of all time. 

 

(We probably lose all these lotteries as karma for winning that one)

 

It's a damned shame Gil didn't have the drive that Mario, Wayne, Sidney has/had.  He was amazing to watch.  I can't imagine what he'd have been like if he had the competitive streak that these other guys had.

[ParkMeadow]

I think Mario's game was more suited to dominating today's NHL than Gretzky's was. 

 

It's a damned shame Gil didn't have the drive that Mario, Wayne, Sidney has/had.  He was amazing to watch.  I can't imagine what he'd have been like if he had the competitive streak that these other guys had.

Nailed it!

Gilbert had it all - except the DRIVE. And there's no way to tap into it except from within. He was never in top shape and reportedly smoked like a chimney, but man, oh man what he was able to do on sheer talent alone!

[Gramps]

Gretzky was not the fastest, but he possessed a skating agility like no other. I read an analysis years ago and it was said that Gretzky had the best agility ever when it came to pivots, quick turns without losing speed, and change of direction. Also Gretzky's shooting accuracy was head and shoulders above other players. 

 

Add in unparalleled hockey sense and an ability to see the entire ice and there you have it. 

[2 minuter för grovbearbetn]

What Wayne great was his understanding of angles. He didn't chase the puck, he knew where it was going to be and would meet the puck half way. Rebounds, deflections, pucks off the boards, it didn't matter, he was no grinder, but he was going to have possession first. He also understood angles defenders would take, and was a master at taking advantage of a defenders own momentum and moved accordingly to create seperation. His brain processed the game at a much faster speed than everyone else. 

[dudacek]

It should be obvious

Gretzky in today’s game would be Sam Reinhart. ????

Edited February 17, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[BagBoy]

What Wayne great was his understanding of angles. He didn't chase the puck, he knew where it was going to be and would meet the puck half way. Rebounds, deflections, pucks off the boards, it didn't matter, he was no grinder, but he was going to have possession first. He also understood angles defenders would take, and was a master at taking advantage of a defenders own momentum and moved accordingly to create seperation. His brain processed the game at a much faster speed than everyone else. 

 

I totally agree with this.  It was like Wayne literally knew exactly what 2 seconds in the future looked like - always.  But it was more than just angles.  He seemed to understand how both teammates and opposing players would react to situations well in advance of anybody else.

[French Collection]

I totally agree with this.  It was like Wayne literally knew exactly what 2 seconds in the future looked like - always.  But it was more than just angles.  He seemed to understand how both teammates and opposing players would react to situations well in advance of anybody else.

Also, he terrified other teams and would draw defenders to him and then dish to the open guy. There is always someone open if you have two guys on you. (Thanks Captain Obvious).

[Kruppstahl]

NHL hockey was immensely more entertaining in the 1980s; it's boring now.

[BuffalOhio]

Commitment to defense, bigger goalies and bigger goalie equipment.  The butterfly and shot blocking by all players makes it nearly impossible to score these days.  Gretzky would come nowhere close to what he did in today's NHL, but he'd still be a top player in the league.

[pi2000]

NHL hockey was immensely more entertaining in the 1980s; it's boring now.

true

[etiennep99]

The Oilers had:

1. A bunch of immensely talented players

2. Speed and agility

3. Green-light to go on the offensive

4. Fantastic East-West game.  

5. Good to great shooters (Kurri, Gretzky)

6. Played almost as units ala the Russians or Red Wings 5 man Russian unit from days of yore.

 

Today, all we hear about is playing a safe North-South game.  Boring.

I know that players, goalies, defense are all much bigger and better.

 

Still, I think that if the Oilers were around today they would still be great.

[matter2003]

Conversation happening in the Bills thread. What made Gretzky so dominate? How would he do in today's NHL? Would Crosby be better than him in the 80's NHL?

 

Slow defensemen, bad goalies...what is the difference between today and the NHL of the 80s?

 

Bad goalies coupled with much smaller goalies and goalie equipment...a wide open game where teams actually tried to outscore one another instead of trying to out defend one another...the lack of defensive systems like the neutral zone trap and "left wing lock" that were being played...a lot less clutching, holding and grabbing allowed to slow the game done...far more power play opportunities...

 

Basically the game has become a defensive game instead of an offensive game since then.

Commitment to defense, bigger goalies and bigger goalie equipment.  The butterfly and shot blocking by all players makes it nearly impossible to score these days.  Gretzky would come nowhere close to what he did in today's NHL, but he'd still be a top player in the league.

yeah, he would probably have his point totals cut in half which is why his might be the safest record in all of sports...including Dimaggio's hiting streak record...there is nothing preventing another person from actually surpassing that record involving the structure of the game in Major League Baseball....in the NHL the structure of the game basically prevents anyone from even getting close to Gretzky's record.

 

 

While other sports(NBA, MLB, NFL) have embraced offense and scoring and made rule changes to favor the offense,  the NHL has regressed and embraced low scoring, boring snooze-fests that drive fans crazy most nights.  Basically hockey has turned into dump, chase and recover.

Edited February 18, 2018 by matter2003

[calti]

Gretzky wasn't just better, he 8s exponentially better than anyone who has ever played.

He may be the best---but you could make a case for Bobby Orr pre knee surgery.Or even Lemieux.

Gretzky wasnt exponentially better than those 2 by any stretch.

 

I remember reading about him taking hockey lessons from his dad. Gretzky would move toward a loose puck and his dad would tell him to skate away from it..training him to 'know' where the puck was going before it got there.hence the legendary ability to be slightly ahead of everyone else.

 

Cripe seeing him come into Buffalo ..on ice with his skinny frame barely holding his jersey and pads on....and just completely dominating good sabres teams. It was awe inspiring.

And I think his dad deserves a lot of credit. His dad coulda been a great  great coach but maybe he didnt want to give his secrets to anyone but his son.

Edited February 19, 2018 by calti